boozer and noah

[CODE_BLUE56]

Originally Posted by Uman85

Trade them both for Howard. Noah can't shoot for the world and Boozer's lack of D makes me want to punch a hole through the wall.

howard and redick for noah,boozer, and hamilton

[CODE_BLUE56]

Originally Posted by FirstTimer

I have no idea where you pulled the Gibson shit from.

The only deal I can find that were talked about are:

Deng+Noah for Melo

Noah+Taj for Melo(Makes no sense)

Deng + Gibson + picks for Melo

The issue was Deng's absurd contract and Denver not wanting it.

i dont understand trading gibson...he's young...great defender and has upside

if you trade for melo(which im not the biggest fan of) you probably trade deng and noah or deng,picks,and a 3rd player(perhaps brewer)

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Originally Posted by CODE_BLUE56

this is true..but it doesnt mean anything...lebron still puts up similar numbers...his assists and ppg have dropped the most from sharing the ball with wade

Saying that was mainly to emphasize how valuable LeBron was in Cleveland just with his scoring ability alone. Mo Williams+...Jamison(?) could never dream of combining to average 50 points per-game. Wade and Bosh can.

could...but it wouldnt happen..wade is probably going to be in the 22-26 range...

There is no way that Wade would average below 25 points if James was not on that team. Wade has shown that he can average 30 points in this league, and he is not far off from the player he was back in 2006.

bosh high teens or around 20...i see more 45 points per game at the most

If Wade was only averaging 25 then Bosh would put in at least 20 per-game. That combination averages at least 45 points right there... no less. Probably 50+.

they average around 43 PPG last year..and now you have battier cole not to mention haslem getting a bigger role

Yep. That goes to show even more than LeBron James isn't all that valuable for the Heat. That team is still damn good without him. Especially with the addition of Cole as a true PG who can slash the lane and defense. And Battier who can also defend.

of course this affects lebron too..but lebron has established himself as the leading guy on offense(dont misconstrue this as him being the leader of the team...because i still think thats wade)...plus he doesnt get slowed down by injuries like wade can

Also consider that the Heat would have a go-to play down-the-stretch of close games: pick-and-roll with Bosh. With LeBron in there, it just adds confusion about where the ball should go and what play to run in crunch time.

if you have bosh and wade combining for 50 PPG that probably means pretty high usage for those two..and that hinders the rest of the offense...definitely not as efficient and i dont see that route being taken

It would still be efficient in the tough stretches of close games. I could make a case that the Heat would be better off without James on the floor at all if the team was in-need of a game-winning shot or a quick basket to end a quarter.

The Heat probably lose no less than 5 more games over the course of a 66-game season without him.

Rose, Paul, Howard, and Nowitzki will all be WAY more valuable to their respective teams than LeBron over the course of this season. Count on that.

well, dirk will hold his own..but i dont think he wins MVP...west is a bit open but you got the clippers,spurs(they are old but can still play...manu ftw),lakers,grizzlies,warriors(i like what they are doing),blazers to contend with....

kidd is breaking down, marion is aging, they dont have a center...again odom is a good player but he plays like a guard...terry is getting up there as well

they'll be good for sure..but i'll be surprised if they are 2nd in the west...it would have to be because of dirk



yep...now they dont have a center

The Mavs have a couple of centers... they just are terrible offensive players and mediocre rebounders for their size.

They will be okay. The Warriors have no business being in the conversation with them.

If the Mavs go only 40-26 and the Heat go 55-11, I still bet you that Dirk's presence will have caused more wins for Dallas than LeBron's presence did for the Heat.

[Diddy1122]

Who gives a crap about all these "what ifs" and "coulda beens"? This is the team we have now & we have to learn to live with it for the time being. And I know most people have been heaping blame onto Boozer for a slow start, when in actuality it is our beloved MVP who is playing like a pussy on both ends of the floor that is causing all these problems. Call out Noah & Boozer all you want, but D-Rose has not been himself at all & THAT's the real problem here.

And sitting Noah, Booz, & Hamiltion in the 4th against GS was a necessity. GS had basically 4 guards on the floor with David Lee. Rip was getting torched by Monta all night, & Noah & Booz were atrocious on defense. We were down by 20 & needed to go small & put a scoring lineup on the floor. Thibs did that & we almost stole another victory.

[nwfisch]

Originally Posted by Diddy1122

Who gives a crap about all these "what ifs" and "coulda beens"? This is the team we have now & we have to learn to live with it for the time being. And I know most people have been heaping blame onto Boozer for a slow start, when in actuality it is our beloved MVP who is playing like a pussy on both ends of the floor that is causing all these problems. Call out Noah & Boozer all you want, but D-Rose has not been himself at all & THAT's the real problem here.

And sitting Noah, Booz, & Hamiltion in the 4th against GS was a necessity. GS had basically 4 guards on the floor with David Lee. Rip was getting torched by Monta all night, & Noah & Booz were atrocious on defense. We were down by 20 & needed to go small & put a scoring lineup on the floor. Thibs did that & we almost stole another victory.

Wouldn't you agree that having Noah and Boozer riding pine more often than not in the 4th quarter is a bad thing?

This goes back to the Indiana series last year too.

[Uman85]

Originally Posted by nwfisch

Wouldn't you agree that having Noah and Boozer riding pine more often than not in the 4th quarter is a bad thing?

This goes back to the Indiana series last year too.

That's a lot of $$$ to have sitting on the bench in crunch time.

[nwfisch]

Originally Posted by Uman85

That's a lot of $$$ to have sitting on the bench in crunch time.

Not good.

[CODE_BLUE56]

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

Saying that was mainly to emphasize how valuable LeBron was in Cleveland just with his scoring ability alone. Mo Williams+...Jamison(?) could never dream of combining to average 50 points per-game. Wade and Bosh can.

ya, but that doesnt and hasnt greatly effected lebron's production

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

There is no way that Wade would average below 25 points if James was not on that team. Wade has shown that he can average 30 points in this league, and he is not far off from the player he was back in 2006.

ah...WITHOUT lebron...i thought you meant with him(sorry, not alot of context)

ya, without lebron wade probably averages 25+

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

If Wade was only averaging 25 then Bosh would put in at least 20 per-game. That combination averages at least 45 points right there... no less. Probably 50+.

with lebron:38-44

withoutrobably 50+

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

Yep. That goes to show even more than LeBron James isn't all that valuable for the Heat. That team is still damn good without him. Especially with the addition of Cole as a true PG who can slash the lane and defense. And Battier who can also defend.

the team is good...but lebron takes them to another level...he makes every team better...without lebron this heat team would still make the playoffs ..lebron is basically what makes this team dominant...not only in his scoring but because he does everything on the floor..including making others around him better through his passing

lebron james is certainly valuable.. less to the heat than the cavs obviously

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

Also consider that the Heat would have a go-to play down-the-stretch of close games: pick-and-roll with Bosh. With LeBron in there, it just adds confusion about where the ball should go and what play to run in crunch time.

i think you would see wade take over(more on isos imo)...more than a pick and roll

i dont see how adding lebron adds confusion..if anything you are adding another playmaker who can set up with a pass..or make a play himself

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

It would still be efficient in the tough stretches of close games. I could make a case that the Heat would be better off without James on the floor at all if the team was in-need of a game-winning shot or a quick basket to end a quarter.

i think there's an opposite case as well...

now that this has become a hypothetical(what would the heat be without lebron) argument...i would say that bosh and wade would probably average 50+...they'd probably have to...because besides those two they have alot of role players...but nothing great....cole may turn out to be a great 4th option for the actual heat

and the thing is..it makes the offense less efficient..wade becomes the primary ballhandler and playmaker again..cole and chalmers can handle the ball but they're not the best facilitators...

so basically alot of the team's offense runs through either wade as a playmaker and facilitator..or bosh making shots..posting up or pick and roll

you're losing some dimensions on offense...not to mention you have replace lebron's defensive abilities(battier helps alot in this case)

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

The Heat probably lose no less than 5 more games over the course of a 66-game season without him.

5-10 imo

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

Rose, Paul, Howard, and Nowitzki will all be WAY more valuable to their respective teams than LeBron over the course of this season. Count on that.

its harder to be valuable to a team that already is good in principle(i dont think they are as good as you say but a playoff team nonetheless)

without nowitzki, dallas doesnt make the playoffs
without paul, clippers dont even have a chance
without rose, doubtful on the playoffs

but that has to do with the states of the team around the players more than the value of the player itself

in terms of team non-withstanding value...lebron will probably be at the top or top 2 or 3

his value hasnt changed much since his days in cleveland...it just that miami has good pieces without lebron

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

The Mavs have a couple of centers... they just are terrible offensive players and mediocre rebounders for their size.

well,ya thats what i meant....they have no starting center

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

They will be okay. The Warriors have no business being in the conversation with them.

they're not as good as dallas..but dont sleep on them...they have a nasty backcourt with ellis and curry...dorrell wright(or however you say his name) has really been good for them....and they have david lee inside

i think they could sneak in as a 7 or 8 seed

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

If the Mavs go only 40-26 and the Heat go 55-11, I still bet you that Dirk's presence will have caused more wins for Dallas than LeBron's presence did for the Heat.

now this is completely hypothetical as well as speculative

now, you may be right, but that has more to do with the teams around the players than the players themselves(doesn't mean that lebron isnt one of the most valuable players in the league)

[Diddy1122]

Originally Posted by nwfisch

Wouldn't you agree that having Noah and Boozer riding pine more often than not in the 4th quarter is a bad thing?

This goes back to the Indiana series last year too.

I didn't say it was a good thing. I said it was a necessity. When your 2 bigs are playing like total crap all game, you are down by 20, & the other team puts a small, fast lineup on the floor, you have to adjust. I don't give a shit how much $$ they make. All I care about is the W.

And in the Indy series, Boozer was injured, which is a big reason why he sat & only played about 25mpg throughout the playoffs.