The Importance of the NBA Center and how it relates to the Bulls

[Scoot26]

This came up in another thread about Melo dealing with Joakim Noah, so I thought I would compile this using stuff I wrote on my blog a few years ago.

Back in 2008, I did some research on what teams had when they won championships, and I found something that nearly every team had in common. Nearly all of them had an All-Star center. And in even more cases, they had a center that went on to go into the Hall-of-Fame.

And of course Bulls fans ignore all of this because of one man, Michael Jordan. Jordan won six NBA titles without an All-Star center, so most people think any team can win without the All-Star center.

Now, today the game is sort of changing and guys who normally would play center are being put at the PF position. Examples of such are Tim Duncan and Pau Gasol. So I myself still consider them centers and fit into this entire equation of my own findings.

So with my findings I found out that before Michael Jordan won an NBA title in 1991, only 2 NBA centers had won championships without that particular center being an All-Star that season. Arnie Risen in 1951 and Clifford Ray in 1975.

Arnie Risen however became an All-Star in 1953 and ended up in the Hall-of-Fame. Clifford Ray was a serviceable big man for the 1975 Warriors along with Rick Barry. The NBA was in a rather weak state in 1975 (competition from the ABA and the beginning of the cocaine era), so it’s not a big surprise the 48-34 Warriors won it all that season.

Now looking at it, there have been a total of 64 championship teams in NBA history. 55 championships teams have won championships while having All-Star centers (This includes Duncan and Gasol on that list).

And those 9 titles that haven’t included an All-Star center? Six of them are from Jordan’s teams (Cartwright and Longley with three each). The other three are Risen, Ray, and Kendrick Perkins.

So out of 64 teams, 5 starting centers have not been an All-Star and have won an NBA Championship. That puts a probability of winning an NBA Championship without an All-Star center at 7.8%.

And to use the Hall-of-Fame? 8 centers (I’m assuming Shaq and Duncan will be elected) have not been elected to the Hall-of-Fame and have won NBA Championships. That makes the probability of winning a title without a Hall-of-Fame center at 10.9%.

So to me if you have a good 7 footer (or very near 7 feet) you have a much better chance of winning than not having one. Of course there are exceptions that come along. Great player like Michael Jordan will do it, or as in the 2008 Boston Celtics, having an incredible trio and then supporting cast can guide your way there as well (Though Perkins himself is not a bad player, probably on par with a guy like Clifford Ray from the 70’s).

The other thing you have to consider with Jordan is that he never faced one All-Star center when the Bulls were in the NBA Finals. He faced Vlade Divac, Kevin Duckworth, Mark West, Ervin Johnson, and Greg Ostertag. Hardly an All-Star lineup of players.

I'm not saying Jordan wouldn't have won championships had he faced someone like Olajuwon in the Finals. Jordan beat Ewing plenty of times and beat Shaq in 1996 in the Eastern Conference Playoffs (Though Shaq beat him in 1995). The chance just never arrived for Jordan in the Finals.

Where does this leave the current Bulls at? Joakim Noah in my opinion was on a verge of an All-Star season last year if he had managed to stay healthy. That will be a question mark with him, but I think if he can put in a good year without suffering any major injury, he can become that All-Star, which puts us at this requirement. Noah does not have to be the best player on the team, but obviously one of the best to make the All-Star team. To me he is one of the most valuable players on the team. And I would pretty much not trade him for anyone at the moment except Dwight Howard (And we all know that's not happening).

If Noah can find his way onto the Eastern Conference Reserves this season, I think it would speak wonders and if the Bulls could ever get to the Finals and win…well my point would be proven.

[NealKleren]

I was reading that other thread and thought writing on their about what youre talking about,just not as detailed lol. I agree with everything about Noah being able to be an All Star. Like you said he doesnt have to be the best player on the team and shouldnt be on the trade block at all what so ever,even for Melo. If we got rid of him we would then have to start finding someone his age,height and skill level and the energy that Noah has and brings to the team,especially with the improvements he has made since playing Boston in the playoffs. Also side note I think Noah should have been an all star last year(and even though hes not on our team,I thought Andrew Bogut as well.)

[JCM]

good stuff scoot.

if Noah did indeed stay healthy last season and didn't have those injuries before all star break arrived he would of been a all star.

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by NealKleren

I was reading that other thread and thought writing on their about what youre talking about,just not as detailed lol. I agree with everything about Noah being able to be an All Star. Like you said he doesnt have to be the best player on the team and shouldnt be on the trade block at all what so ever,even for Melo. If we got rid of him we would then have to start finding someone his age,height and skill level and the energy that Noah has and brings to the team,especially with the improvements he has made since playing Boston in the playoffs. Also side note I think Noah should have been an all star last year(and even though hes not on our team,I thought Andrew Bogut as well.)

When I originally came up with this fact finding mission in 2008, I was saying the Bulls need to seek out one. Of course Noah was a rookie at the time and not a very good looking rookie. The following season when he came in completely out of shape, I wasnt ready to label him a bust yet, but was rather disappointed. Last season though, he came out full of energy and productive and now I believe Noah can be the guy we need. A center doesnt have to be an high offensive guy (Guys like Bill Laimbeer, Bill Russell, Ben Wallace we not offensive guys). As long as the team has a PF who can score, it usually compliments the defensive center.

You know..I always forget about Bogut. Probably because he has injury history as well. Bogut played 82 games his rookie year and player 78 in 07-08 and has had three injury ridden seasons in his 5 season career. Last year he went all the way until dislocated his elbow to end his season in late March. So he's another guy that probably could compete for an All-Star spot, but injuries will limit him. Andrew Bynum is another guy who could probably get their if he could stay healthy. And of course if Greg Oden could ever still healthy period, some say he could come on, but I feel injuries have done in Oden completely.

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by AirJordan

good stuff scoot.

if Noah did indeed stay healthy last season and didn't have those injuries before all star break arrived he would of been a all star.

Thanks!

And hopefully Noah can make that step this season.

[Crystallas]

I agree as well. In today's NBA there is a shortage of legit centers who can play at the NBA level. Even if Noah isn't all-star or 7' tall w/o shoes, he's still damn good, and extremely valuable to this team.

[NealKleren]

Originally Posted by Scoot26

When I originally came up with this fact finding mission in 2008, I was saying the Bulls need to seek out one. Of course Noah was a rookie at the time and not a very good looking rookie. The following season when he came in completely out of shape, I wasnt ready to label him a bust yet, but was rather disappointed. Last season though, he came out full of energy and productive and now I believe Noah can be the guy we need. A center doesnt have to be an high offensive guy (Guys like Bill Laimbeer, Bill Russell, Ben Wallace we not offensive guys). As long as the team has a PF who can score, it usually compliments the defensive center.

You know..I always forget about Bogut. Probably because he has injury history as well. Bogut played 82 games his rookie year and player 78 in 07-08 and has had three injury ridden seasons in his 5 season career. Last year he went all the way until dislocated his elbow to end his season in late March. So he's another guy that probably could compete for an All-Star spot, but injuries will limit him. Andrew Bynum is another guy who could probably get their if he could stay healthy. And of course if Greg Oden could ever still healthy period, some say he could come on, but I feel injuries have done in Oden completely.

I agree. Bogut has had alot of injuries which have hurt his career. Also about Noah I was the same way,I didn't think much of him and didn't want to label him yet as well since it was his first year and then sophomore year wasnt looking the best either until the playoffs then last year he improved alot imo and has been playing good ever since the playoffs against Boston. Man if they ever came out with a dvd of that playoff series,even though we lost and it was only the first round,I would watch it over and over,such a memorable series and hopefully when we get to the NBA Finals,whenever we do,I want it to be like that,or even more memorable and close and exciting.

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by Crystallas

I agree as well. In today's NBA there is a shortage of legit centers who can play at the NBA level. Even if Noah isn't all-star or 7' tall w/o shoes, he's still damn good, and extremely valuable to this team.

At the moment we do have a shortage of centers.

Its basically Dwight Howard and Pau Gasol right now (I consider Gasol a center). Duncan is fading..We have question marks in Brook Lopez, Noah, Bynum, Kaman, and Bogut.

Its early in the decade. So there could be some guys that come in that we really dont know anything about yet. People say the dominant center is dying and people say the 2000's had a shortage of centers, but not really compared to any other era

Shaq, Duncan, Howard (Though not effective until about 2007), Ben Wallace, Yao Ming (Though always injured), Pau Gasol

It was the 1990s that really spoiled everyone. Olajuwon, Ewing, Shaq, DRob, Mourning Mutombo. The 1980's only had 4 good centers in Jabbar, Parish, Moses, and Laimbeer (And the first three were leagues ahead of Laimbeer).

[NealKleren]

Hey now dont forget Thabeet
Joking lol

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by NealKleren

I agree. Bogut has had alot of injuries which have hurt his career. Also about Noah I was the same way,I didn't think much of him and didn't want to label him yet as well since it was his first year and then sophomore year wasnt looking the best either until the playoffs then last year he improved alot imo and has been playing good ever since the playoffs against Boston. Man if they ever came out with a dvd of that playoff series,even though we lost and it was only the first round,I would watch it over and over,such a memorable series and hopefully when we get to the NBA Finals,whenever we do,I want it to be like that,or even more memorable and close and exciting.

I think if an NBA Finals involving the Bulls were close and exciting like that I would probably die of a heart attack. That first round series in 2009 nearly gave me a heart attack lol.