Most Underrated/Overrated Players in the NBA?

[houheffna]

Originally Posted by TheStig

I wouldn't exactly call 14 pts getting handled. Beaubois got hot. But I will disagree, BG is actually pretty good at keeping people in front of him. He fits into a system decently and can stay in front of guys and funnel them toward help.

They were pretty bad defensively but Rose was clearly worse that year defensively. I think as Rose improves defensively they would have gotten better, they also both had a crappy noah for 2/3 of the season as their defensive anchor.

So your defense for Gordon's porous defense is "he isn't as bad as Rose"? Rose was a rookie, what's Gordon's excuse? As far as Beaubois, he didn't get hot, he just waltzed right past Gordon, over and over, he didn't always score, but he was able to drive past him.

Rose can learn to defend, and not have a size disadvantage at the position like Gordon does.

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

[clonetrooper264]

I'd say Gordon is a pretty good scorer. 20 ppg is pretty good imo.

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by houheffna

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by houheffna

So your defense for Gordon's porous defense is "he isn't as bad as Rose"? Rose was a rookie, what's Gordon's excuse? As far as Beaubois, he didn't get hot, he just waltzed right past Gordon, over and over, he didn't always score, but he was able to drive past him.

Rose can learn to defend, and not have a size disadvantage at the position like Gordon does.

Gordon is a scorer...something you tried to limit Kobe Bryant to being, that is ALL he can do, he is not great at it. He is a good scorer, and he is one dimensional. Acting as if he is adequate defensively at that position is a fallacy. A tell tale sign is when you have to denounce other players' abilities to promote Gordon's. You have done that with Rose and Pierce. My money is on both of those players being much better at defending their positions than Gordon is over the course of their careers. He will always be costly because you will have to find others to do what he can't do.

Rose has all the athletic gifts in the world to be a lock down defender. Great size, great strength, great quickness. BG is undersized and doesn't have the quickness. And your complaining about one and not the other. Rose came out of college as a good defender. BG came into the league as a terrible one and improved to average. He really isn't a problem defensively.

No I said that he is average defensively. You said they were one of the worst back courts in the league defensively. I said that was more rose. I didn't proactively make the point, I only made the point when you grouped them together. The numbers also support bg being average defensively, his opponents put up an average per against him.

Wow can we get more off topic and random. Kobe is a very good defender. He is a pretty good rebounder and I;d say above average at creating for others. When compared to Bron, which is where the statement came from, he looks more one dimensional.

[TheStig]

Originally Posted by Scoot26

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

The whole team got killed defensively that series, I wouldn't single anyone out.

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Originally Posted by Scoot26

You can go back to the 06-07 series against the Pistons to see how bad at D Gordon is. Skiles did everything he could to hide Gordon in the defense but the Pistons just kept hounding him everywhere he went.

this^

[RamiTheBullsFan]

I don't get how anyone can call Gordon an average defender... he's still one of the worst ones in the NBA...

[Scoot26]

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

I don't get how anyone can call Gordon an average defender... he's still one of the worst ones in the NBA...

I really dont know...I always knew he was a bad defender watching him his rookie year. I kept holding out someday he would learn defense. And being that he had such a great defensive coach in Skiles to guide him, I definitely thought he could. By 06-07 I gave up though. And to me if Skiles couldnt teach him to be a better defender..not too many coaches would be able to. Maybe the guys in San Antonio, but its too late for that.

[Bullsman24]

yeah i remember the backcourt killing us in the miami series, no wonder we lost against the best SG in the NBA...

[pinkizdead]

Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan

Ben Gordon is not even a top 10 SG. He may not even be a top 20 SG... though that would be a stretch.

that's Bull.

bg's arguably in the top 10 for shooting guards in the league.