New kicker Eddie being the answer is iffy

Mdbearz

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 9, 2014
Posts:
4,513
Liked Posts:
3,220
Location:
Harford County, MD
LOL at this. Gould made just as many 50+ FGs in his alleged "terrible" last season in Chicago (7) as Parkey has made in his 5-year NFL career. It was dumb at the time to get rid of Gould, and it was dumb at the time to give multi-year guaranteed money to a kicker going to his 4th team in 4 years.

I think you are WAY underselling how terrible Pace/the Bears have been at evaluating kickers, which continues to this very moment.
So you are ASSUMING that Gould will be good because his history says he will.....

I agree that the Bears have been terrible at evaluating a kick, for all the reasons you mentioned. BUT instead of doing the same thing they have done in the past they are changing their way...
 

The Big Grabowski

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2010
Posts:
1,761
Liked Posts:
2,226
Location:
Austin
The scope of the rebuild in front of Pace didn't leave kicker as a priority so up until last year we saw bandaids at the position. Criticism of Pace should be focused on the Parkey decision, specifically his commitment to a kicker when the rest of the team was ready to win.

Pace paid too much guaranteed money and it left the Bears strapped to a guy who was clearly going to cost them a game at some point. When Parkey predictably imploded in the playoffs (and compounded that with the TV appearance), they ended up eating the contract anyway.

Pace waited too long in season to correct a mistake, but I like his conviction after that. The knee jerk response would have been to overpay a vet, essentially putting us in the same position. The wiser course I believe is to develop a guy and leave your options open.

I'm going to trust Pace here because I think he is a young GM who self-evaluates and learns from his experience.

You can't bank on Gould coming available, and even then Robbie is getting older and a short term fix. He's also not the right solution for our cap health.
 

Rory Sparrow

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 14, 2010
Posts:
4,850
Liked Posts:
3,735
So you are ASSUMING that Gould will be good because his history says he will.....

I agree that the Bears have been terrible at evaluating a kick, for all the reasons you mentioned. BUT instead of doing the same thing they have done in the past they are changing their way...

Not at all. I said the opposite. Pace/Bears incorrectly evaluated Gould's past performance when they let him walk...he missed a big 2nd down kick against the Vikings but actually still had a good season. It was vindictive. Pace/Bears incorrectly evaluated Parkey's past performance...weak leg, not really a guy you want in your lockerroom, 3 teams in 3 years. Signing Parkey was wishful thinking.

Pace shouldn't be ignoring past performance, he should be looking at it more closely.
 

Mdbearz

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 9, 2014
Posts:
4,513
Liked Posts:
3,220
Location:
Harford County, MD
Not at all. I said the opposite. Pace/Bears incorrectly evaluated Gould's past performance when they let him walk...he missed a big 2nd down kick against the Vikings but actually still had a good season. It was vindictive. Pace/Bears incorrectly evaluated Parkey's past performance...weak leg, not really a guy you want in your lockerroom, 3 teams in 3 years. Signing Parkey was wishful thinking.

Pace shouldn't be ignoring past performance, he should be looking at it more closely.
So you are saying there is a chance.....and Pace sucks
 

gwharris2254

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 6, 2012
Posts:
6,551
Liked Posts:
1,964
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Asked my brother in law about Eddie Pineiro, because he is a diehard U of Florida fan. Grew up there, went to undergrad and med school at UF..and travels to a number of their games per year. Off the bat his response was "meh." Like he never even thought about the guy again since he left.. if he got drafted... etc. Because he said he kicked only 2 years and nothing ever mattered. The team was crappy.. playing from behind.. and its not like he had many clutch moments to prove anything. And the two times they needed it, he missed. One being an extra point. The other was a field goal to take the lead on a comeback or something, I cant remember. but he missed it. This opinion means very little of course.. but I was just kind of surprised he didnt think the kid was anything special. I was like.. "he went 17/18 his last year and 4th most accurate NCAA all time!" ?

So I guess we might have a pretty talented kid, with a strong leg (both good things). but never has proved himself yet in any big moments or of course the NFL. And unfortunately we may never know either until an intense kick in the playoffs presents itself.

Anyways... the kid may prove himself well.. but.. was hoping for better affirmation and praise when I asked a diehard UF fan. #TalkingaboutKickersTho

Thanks for the Info. After last year and Parkey I think we all are quite skeptical about Any kicker .... except, naturally, Robby LoLz
 

gwharris2254

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 6, 2012
Posts:
6,551
Liked Posts:
1,964
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Wish I could get into this competition. Has there ever been a 6'6" kicker that played both soccer and rugby?

I can throw, catch, run a 4.5-4.6 at 40 years old, with long hair and a big beard. PLayed soccer for 19 years and just kicked for one. Was the designated penalty kicker in soccer since a child, and never missed a kick in a game, took over the team position as penalty kicker freshman year of high school. Even puberty couldn't stop my accuracy if my power dipped for a year. 6'6" with [relatively] small feet (size 12-13) is the secret. Leverage and touch.

Fuck.

Inside about 43-45 yards I only take one step due to my long legs, to shorten the time to ball. A little half step is all I need but gets iffy at about 45. Then the full 2.5

Didn't you like the "Ice / Street Tryout ?" You should start kicking over the fence at Halas Hall and have a NOTE taped to the Ball saying " Deliver to Matt Nagy " ... I am 100% SURE he would either email, text, or call you, out of curiosity ... Everyone likes someone with that type of gumption ..... then all ya gotta do is Prove It !!
Shit, everyone at CCS would be onboard and EggBritches would tote your ball bag. You would become a "media" hero like that fella for the Eagles they made a movie about
 
  • Like
Reactions: DC

gwharris2254

Well-known member
Joined:
Nov 6, 2012
Posts:
6,551
Liked Posts:
1,964
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
Nah dude, I'm gonna quit CCS and get ready for next year in case Piniero falters and Gould gets old. I'm coming.

6'6"...skinny, fast, big beard. you won't miss me.

Don't wait for Next Year. YOUR time is NOW. Drive out there, write that note, tape it to the football with Special Delivery Coach Nagy on the envelope.....Oh and kick it 100yds past the fence for good measure.....use a catapult if you have to
 
Last edited:

MDB111™

O Doyle Rules
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Oct 7, 2011
Posts:
20,664
Liked Posts:
19,651
Location:
Dongbears is thee worst!
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Maryland Terrapins
Wish I could get into this competition. Has there ever been a 6'6" kicker that played both soccer and rugby?

I can throw, catch, run a 4.5-4.6 at 40 years old, with long hair and a big beard. PLayed soccer for 19 years and just kicked for one. Was the designated penalty kicker in soccer since a child, and never missed a kick in a game, took over the team position as penalty kicker freshman year of high school. Even puberty couldn't stop my accuracy if my power dipped for a year. 6'6" with [relatively] small feet (size 12-13) is the secret. Leverage and touch.

Fuck.

Inside about 43-45 yards I only take one step due to my long legs, to shorten the time to ball. A little half step is all I need but gets iffy at about 45. Then the full 2.5


SIGN HIM!
 

iueyedoc

Variant Also Negotiates
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
20,829
Liked Posts:
29,578
Location:
Mountains to Sea
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Chicago Blackhawks
  1. Indiana Hoosiers
So you are ASSUMING that Gould will be good because his history says he will.....

I agree that the Bears have been terrible at evaluating a kick, for all the reasons you mentioned. BUT instead of doing the same thing they have done in the past they are changing their way...
What other way are you suppose to evaluate any thing in life other than by historical precedent? If some crack head stabs your buddy in the eye with one of those cocktail condiment swords and grabs another and looks at you while mumbling to himself, recent history dictates you should GTFO of his vicinity.
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,873
Location:
Communist Canada
LOL at this. Gould made just as many 50+ FGs in his alleged "terrible" last season in Chicago (7) as Parkey has made in his 5-year NFL career. It was dumb at the time to get rid of Gould, and it was dumb at the time to give multi-year guaranteed money to a kicker going to his 4th team in 4 years.

I think you are WAY underselling how terrible Pace/the Bears have been at evaluating kickers, which continues to this very moment.
Yeah, I hate how fan bases over react to kickers having a bad season... or a bad few plays... or one bad play...

giphy.gif


Which kicker am I talking about again?
 

Mdbearz

Well-known member
Joined:
Jan 9, 2014
Posts:
4,513
Liked Posts:
3,220
Location:
Harford County, MD
What other way are you suppose to evaluate any thing in life other than by historical precedent? If some crack head stabs your buddy in the eye with one of those cocktail condiment swords and grabs another and looks at you while mumbling to himself, recent history dictates you should GTFO of his vicinity.
Well........ I guess this is an analogy to what Parkey did to all of us.....or not?

But back to kickers, what you are saying is that we should just blindly get Gould because he had a very good history, but isn’t that what they did with Parkey, after all he was coming off a Probowl season, so his most recent history said that he was on the raise.

That fact that the Bears are using technology and a kicking consultant to help them determine what constitutes a powerful and accurate kicker makes me a whole lot more comfortable than simply looking at how productive a kicker was last year.

Nagy himself said that he has no idea about proper technique, so he is relying on Tabor and Kohl to find the right guy.

I am not saying Gould will not be good this year, I’m saying that he is likely not in the cards unless SF cuts him, and even then it will depend on his salary demands, because the Bears already have a stupid contract on the books for a kicker.

So to answer your question....yes take your buddy to the hospital and GTFO there....
 

DrGonzo

Gazpacho Police
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
9,245
Liked Posts:
5,708
Location:
Albuquerque, NM
Pineiro is about the best Pace was gonna be able to do this year. My gut feeling is he will be fine but we won't know til we know. It cracks me up to see everyone in here trying to act like they are experts on fixing this problem.
 

modo

Based
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
29,201
Liked Posts:
25,146
Location:
USA
Yeah, I hate how fan bases over react to kickers having a bad season... or a bad few plays... or one bad play...

giphy.gif


Which kicker am I talking about again?


I assume you are alluding to Parkey as well here.

Parkey had a bad season, not only that but his kicks never seem to look normal. I don't know how to better explain it but they looked forced as opposed to natural. He has been inconsistent. During the year and, frankly, for his career.

Parkey has been up and down his entire career. Last year was down. I don't think it is an over-ration to want him gone by the fans.

It wasn't just one bad play, although that certainly was an exclamation mark on the complaints.
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,873
Location:
Communist Canada
I assume you are alluding to Parkey as well here.

Parkey had a bad season, not only that but his kicks never seem to look normal. I don't know how to better explain it but they looked forced as opposed to natural. He has been inconsistent. During the year and, frankly, for his career.

Parkey has been up and down his entire career. Last year was down. I don't think it is an over-ration to want him gone by the fans.

It wasn't just one bad play, although that certainly was an exclamation mark on the complaints.
I agree Parkey had a bad season, but so did Gould. There is one glaring consistent spot where both were shipped out right after their low points. I think Parkey is still a very talented kicker. I know it's tough to look past the 2018 season, but in his short 5 year career he's had a rookie season where he hit 89% of his FGs and in 2017 he hit 91%. In between those two seasons he got a serious injury, recovered and was better than ever.

Add in that the Bears will have a dead cap charge of $3.5M this season and $1.25M next season and it's just too much of a knee jerk reaction for me. Here's what I see playing out - Because you have dead cap space for a kicker you'll go a bit cheaper in that spot (Eddie has a cap number of $660K, so he fits). Parkey will get signed somewhere else. When you compare your discount kicker to his stats at the end of the year you'll realize it was a net downgrade and the next offseason you'll be looking for a kicker again.

I will say there is one thing that totally makes the cutting justified. When he went to media outlets and starting to blame other areas that's not cool, but I also think after that playoff game it's on Nagy and Pace to reach out to him and say they believe in him and he's got to do some image rebuild in the offseason. Kicker is a weird position that fans naturally dislike and there is a need to coach them through the media (and social media).

So back to my original point. Chicago is just a tough city to be a kicker in. The weather and field are not optimal and the fan base will turn quickly on whomever is in that spot. The role itself is almost entirely mental and the situation isn't optimal for building confidence.

Specific to Parkey I was sad to see him leave Philly. How often does a rookie kicker come in, start 10 games, hit 89% of his FGs which includes 4/4 from 50+? He actually was better pro than his college prospect file looked, which happens with that position as they mature and get more focused on their craft. I could see him go to another team and get back to being a 85%+ FG kicker while he continues to get more consistent.

Maybe here's another way of looking at it. When I kicker is lining up for a game winner late the rest of the team is no where near him. The last thing they want to do is add any pressure on them. Just let them work through their own process. I think it's beneficial for fans took that approach (to a certain extent). Let the kicker put his head down and focus on kicking. At the end of every season take a step back and evaluate, but let's not make that player feel more pressure than they already do. Specific to Parkey he's been blamed for the double-doink/partially blocked playoff loss. I know confidence in him was very low going into the game, but no one player ever loses a game. The offense only mustered up 15 points (9 of which came from Parkey's leg) and the defense didn't stop Foles late in the game. There are always multiple spots where a team can win/lose the game and on that day the Bears as a team came up short.
 
Last edited:

modo

Based
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
29,201
Liked Posts:
25,146
Location:
USA
I agree Parkey had a bad season, but so did Gould. There is one glaring consistent spot where both were shipped out right after their low points. I think Parkey is still a very talented kicker. I know it's tough to look past the 2018 season, but in his short 5 year career he's had a rookie season where he hit 89% of his FGs and in 2017 he hit 91%. In between those two seasons he got a serious injury, recovered and was better than ever.

Add in that the Bears will have a dead cap charge of $3.5M this season and $1.25M next season and it's just too much of a knee jerk reaction for me. Here's what I see playing out - Because you have dead cap space for a kicker you'll go a bit cheaper in that spot (Eddie has a cap number of $660K, so he fits). Parkey will get signed somewhere else. When you compare your discount kicker to his stats at the end of the year you'll realize it was a net downgrade and the next offseason you'll be looking for a kicker again.

I will say there is one thing that totally makes the cutting justified. When he went to media outlets and starting to blame other areas that's not cool, but I also think after that playoff game it's on Nagy and Pace to reach out to him and say they believe in him and he's got to do some image rebuild in the offseason. Kicker is a weird position that fans naturally dislike and there is a need to coach them through the media (and social media).

So back to my original point. Chicago is just a tough city to be a kicker in. The weather and field are not optimal and the fan base will turn quickly on whomever is in that spot. The role itself is almost entirely mental and the situation isn't optimal for building confidence.

Specific to Parkey I was sad to see him leave Philly. How often does a rookie kicker come in, start 10 games, hit 89% of his FGs which includes 4/4 from 50+? He actually was better pro than his college prospect file looked, which happens with that position as they mature and get more focused on their craft. I could see him go to another team and get back to being a 85%+ FG kicker while he continues to get more consistent.

Maybe here's another way of looking at it. When I kicker is lining up for a game winner late the rest of the team is no where near him. The last thing they want to do is add any pressure on them. Just let them work through their own process. I think it's beneficial for fans took that approach (to a certain extent). Let the kicker put his head down and focus on kicking. At the end of every season take a step back and evaluate, but let's not make that player feel more pressure than they already do. Specific to Parkey he's been blamed for the double-doink/partially blocked playoff loss. I know confidence in him was very low going into the game, but no one player ever loses a game. The offense only mustered up 15 points (9 of which came from Parkey's leg) and the defense didn't stop Foles late in the game. There are always multiple spots where a team can win/lose the game and on that day the Bears as a team came up short.


There is a difference in the situations. Gould was costing a lot of money for a kicker on a bad team. Parkey was a an inconsistent kicker on a team poised to win.
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,873
Location:
Communist Canada
There is a difference in the situations. Gould was costing a lot of money for a kicker on a bad team. Parkey was a an inconsistent kicker on a team poised to win.
Really?

After the Bears 2015 season they cut Robbie Gould. His cap number was $3,600,000, which was ~2.5% of the salary cap in that season.

In the 2018 season Cody's cap number was ~$3.8M, which was ~2.2% of the salary cap last year.

The key difference is that by cutting Cody the Bears will be accepting $3.5M of dead cap space this year (~2.2%) and a $3.5M cap hit that will be spread over the next two seasons.

I agree that Gould was on a worse team, but due to the dead cap space created by the Parkey cut the team has less pure resources to bring in new players or resign existing. Overall it was a horrible cap move for the team. It was a bad contract, but it was even a worse management of the contract when it was in place.
 

modo

Based
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
29,201
Liked Posts:
25,146
Location:
USA
Really?

After the Bears 2015 season they cut Robbie Gould. His cap number was $3,600,000, which was ~2.5% of the salary cap in that season.

In the 2018 season Cody's cap number was ~$3.8M, which was ~2.2% of the salary cap last year.

The key difference is that by cutting Cody the Bears will be accepting $3.5M of dead cap space this year (~2.2%) and a $3.5M cap hit that will be spread over the next two seasons.

I agree that Gould was on a worse team, but due to the dead cap space created by the Parkey cut the team has less pure resources to bring in new players or resign existing. Overall it was a horrible cap move for the team. It was a bad contract, but it was even a worse management of the contract when it was in place.

Yes really. They cut salary after 2015 on the kicker position

2016...$600k Conner Barth

2017...$275k Mike Nugent

2018...they were ready to compete so they spent money...poorly, but they spent it
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,873
Location:
Communist Canada
Yes really. They cut salary after 2015 on the kicker position

2016...$600k Conner Barth

2017...$275k Mike Nugent

2018...they were ready to compete so they spent money...poorly, but they spent it
And now they are spending $3.5M for the kicker who's not on the roster.

To me if they are cheaping out on the position this suggests a return to Barth-town, so buckle up! It's going to be a rocky ride!

Just for reference:
  • 2015 - Gould in his regression/team rebuild season - 33/39 FGs, 84.6%, 7/9 from 50+
  • 2016 - Barth - 18/23, 78.3%, 1/3 from 50+
  • 2017 - Barth - 11/16, 68.8%, 1/2 from 50+ AND Nugent - 4/4, 100.0%, 1/1 from 50+
  • 2018 - Parkey in his horrible, terrible unspeakable season - 23/30, 76.7%, 1/2 from 50+
 

modo

Based
Donator
Joined:
Aug 21, 2012
Posts:
29,201
Liked Posts:
25,146
Location:
USA
And now they are spending $3.5M for the kicker who's not on the roster.

To me if they are cheaping out on the position this suggests a return to Barth-town, so buckle up! It's going to be a rocky ride!

Just for reference:
  • 2015 - Gould in his regression/team rebuild season - 33/39 FGs, 84.6%, 7/9 from 50+
  • 2016 - Barth - 18/23, 78.3%, 1/3 from 50+
  • 2017 - Barth - 11/16, 68.8%, 1/2 from 50+ AND Nugent - 4/4, 100.0%, 1/1 from 50+
  • 2018 - Parkey in his horrible, terrible unspeakable season - 23/30, 76.7%, 1/2 from 50+

The money you pay your kicker doesn't matter, only the production. I think Pace was cutting salary in 2016 and Gould was potentially on the decline. The guys they brought in were known mediocre quantities that got paid like mediocre kickers.

When the Bears were on the verge of getting better again, Pace spent money on a kicker. It was a poor choice but you don't always get what you pay for.

As far as Parkey goes, he was 27th in the league in kicking percentage and 24th in extra points. There is no way to slice it, he wasn't very good. Why pay that much money on a bad kicker?
 

Pegger

President Stoopid
Joined:
Sep 18, 2012
Posts:
7,621
Liked Posts:
5,873
Location:
Communist Canada
The money you pay your kicker doesn't matter, only the production. I think Pace was cutting salary in 2016 and Gould was potentially on the decline. The guys they brought in were known mediocre quantities that got paid like mediocre kickers.

When the Bears were on the verge of getting better again, Pace spent money on a kicker. It was a poor choice but you don't always get what you pay for.

As far as Parkey goes, he was 27th in the league in kicking percentage and 24th in extra points. There is no way to slice it, he wasn't very good. Why pay that much money on a bad kicker?
To answer your question - You were already paying for him in terms of cap space, so why not chalk this past season up to a uncharacteristically bad season and understand when you make that contract you are somewhat stuck with the player for 2-3 years. Whomever you end up signing will just be an added cost at this point.

I agree the 27th in FG% and 24th in extra points isn't good. There's no hiding that. The slight item I'd bring up is those overall stats include dome or warm weather teams, which kick in far more favorable conditions in the back 1/2 of the season. I'm just saying there's a reason why Robbie's best 2 seasons were in San Francisco...

If he would have been on the roster his cap number would have been ~$4M, which would make him in the top 6-8 paid kickers. If he has a bounce back year and is in the top 10 in percentages he's about worth his salary. I'm not saying his salary was worth that production, but rather you were already committed to paying him, so why not give him a chance?
 

Top