Can we talk about that weird catch and fumble incomplete pass?

Toast88

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That was maybe the weirdest thing I’ve seen in my 30 years as a football fan. Even weirder that they would have a rule that specifically covers that exact situation, and that that rule would be completely nonsensical.

From what the ref heads were saying later, the officials actually *did* follow the rule correctly on this. When a player catches a ball and fumbles it, and no one recovers the fumble, it’s ruled an incomplete pass.

That makes no fucking sense.

It essentially takes a catch away from the receiver because of something that happened AFTER the receiver established the catch. That’s unbelievable to me. Why it’s not just treated like any other unrecovered fumble (ball given to the fumbling player’s team at the spot of the fumble) is completely beyond me.


Was this the strangest post-season officiating situation ever?
 

Pegger

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2019/01/07/why-was-anthony-millers-catch-and-fumble-ruled-an-incompletion-nfl-is-here-explain/?utm_term=.bb168fe9324e

CBS’s Gene Steratore, who retired last summer after 35 years as a game official, tweeted: “In order to overturn a ruling of incomplete pass to catch & fumble, there must be a clear recovery by either team OR the ball must go out of bounds. In #PHIvsCHI, neither occurred. By rule, you have to stay with the ruling of incomplete pass.”

Blandino went on to point out that the confusion was needless, as was the review.

“This is a great point regarding the review near the end of the half on the incomplete pass ruling,” he replied to a Twitter user. “It was obvious there was no recovery so no need to stop the game. Should communicate to TV that was the case so everyone understands why no review.”
 

HeHateMe

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That was maybe the weirdest thing I’ve seen in my 30 years as a football fan. Even weirder that they would have a rule that specifically covers that exact situation, and that that rule would be completely nonsensical.

From what the ref heads were saying later, the officials actually *did* follow the rule correctly on this. When a player catches a ball and fumbles it, and no one recovers the fumble, it’s ruled an incomplete pass.

That makes no fucking sense.

It essentially takes a catch away from the receiver because of something that happened AFTER the receiver established the catch. That’s unbelievable to me. Why it’s not just treated like any other unrecovered fumble (ball given to the fumbling player’s team at the spot of the fumble) is completely beyond me.


Was this the strangest post-season officiating situation ever?

Miller really should have recovered it and ran it in. That sucked.
 

JD Trendleton

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That was maybe the weirdest thing I’ve seen in my 30 years as a football fan. Even weirder that they would have a rule that specifically covers that exact situation, and that that rule would be completely nonsensical.

From what the ref heads were saying later, the officials actually *did* follow the rule correctly on this. When a player catches a ball and fumbles it, and no one recovers the fumble, it’s ruled an incomplete pass.

That makes no fucking sense.

It essentially takes a catch away from the receiver because of something that happened AFTER the receiver established the catch. That’s unbelievable to me. Why it’s not just treated like any other unrecovered fumble (ball given to the fumbling player’s team at the spot of the fumble) is completely beyond me.


Was this the strangest post-season officiating situation ever?
That was a really odd play overall. I'm not actually sure if Miller ever had full control with the guy's hand being in there like that but it seems like they ruled it a catch, fumble with no recovery. Bizarre. They should change that rule.
 

roadwarrior_joe

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Miller really should have recovered it and ran it in. That sucked.
How could he, the ref was waving the incomplete signal right at Miller and then he went over and picked up the ball. NFL refs are getting worse and worse and the NFL is starting to look really stupid trying to cover up the fact that in one of biggest professional sports on the planet it is officiated by unprofessionals.
 

AuCN

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Yeah, they blew the whistle. Why would anyone go pick up the ball?
 

Pegger

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I think the refs screwed up and the whole "rule" is nonsense.
I think it was Tony Dungy, who's on the rule committed, mentioned this at halftime. He was a part of the rule creation. When it was being crafted they came wondered how this would look if a replay fumble wasn't recovered, no one had an answer and they just plowed ahead with making it a rule hoping the situation never came up.
 

Visionman

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The only change I would consider to that rule would be just to have a complete do over. Replay the down.
 

TL1961

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Ok, so...NFL logic:

If a pass is ruled incomplete and a player on either team scoops up the ball and runs with it, the play can be reviewed and overturned, if the officials determine it was actually a catch and a fumble.

The yardage gained after picking up the ball would not be allowed. You can't penalize a team that adhered to the whistle by allowing the opponent to gain yards after the whistle indicated the play was dead.

Makes sense so far, right?

However, if the players adhere to the refs whistle, and no player picks up the ball AFTER THE PLAY HAS BEEN WHISTLED DEAD, the call can not be corrected and ruled a catch and a fumble.

So the only way to correct the ref's 1st mistake, the ruling of incomplete, is to ignore the ref's 2nd mistake, the whistle.

But if the ref makes a 3rd mistake, and picks up the ball himself......you have no recourse to correct the 1st mistake!!

Yeah, that's perfectly logical.
 

Milton Waddams

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I don't get not going after every loose ball. That's one of the things I respected about Lovie's players...they'd always try to pick it up and score. What's the downside to hustling after it, just in case? You don't look cool?

It was like that free TD they gave GB in the 2013 finale (which sent them to the playoffs and left us home). Their guy only picked it up b/c the ball happened to fall near their sideline, so their sideline was yelling at their guy to pick it up and try to score. It was the BEARS first year after Lovie, with Tucker running the D. How in the F did all those guys who played for Lovie (Briggs, etc...) just stop scooping up the loose football b/c he was gone? He'd only been gone for months at that point. You forgot to not "loaf" on a loose ball? Ugh.
 

TL1961

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If I fumble, and my team recovers, our ball.

If I fumble and the opponent recovers, opponent's ball.

If I fumble, and the ball goes out of bounds before anyone recovers, our ball.

If I fumble and nobody recovers, the catch never happened.

WHY? Why does that make sense?
 

Exhibit_A

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Ya whatever I call that still a crock of shit.. like I said any other team , especially the packers and they would have rewarded the ball at that spot... refs are cocksuckers and hate us and don’t want us in the playoffs to begin with.. laugh at me all u want I do not care..for instance did anyone notice how no pass interference was called on that shit secondary of the eagles expect for one? They called it during our td pass play when it doesn’t even fucken count..so sick of their shit .. they give the eagles receiver a bogus ass pass interference call when he was the one doing the grabbing and Gabriel gets held and mauled before the ball and nothing.. so fuck all these refs, fuck their shit so called rules, fuck codey parkey, and fuck football.. laters


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

TL1961

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After that Green Bay debacle, my simple rule that I would hope for my team to follow, would be "Pick up every single loose ball. Always."

But even then, I would not expect my team to jump on the ball after every incompletion, especially with the whistle blowing.

I can say that I am not upset with the Bears yesterday for nobody grabbing that ball, but from here forward, grab every ball. That rule yesterday is one reason. The QB's arm may be determined to not have been going forward on review of what had been whistled an incomplete pass, is a second reason.

In a world where every play is now going to be reviewed, just grab every single ball. Which is kind of stupid, but will be the smart thing to do in today's NFL.
 

Pegger

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So basically, the review was completely unnecessary because it was going to be an incomplete pass no matter what. Weird.
Yep. If they would have asked confirmed with the one official if he picked up the ball they could have said it's not review-able.

It seems like the crew didn't know of the rule.

Actually looking back on it, were the Bears charged a time out? So much crazy shit happened in that moment I had no idea what was going on.
 

Pegger

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If I fumble, and my team recovers, our ball.

If I fumble and the opponent recovers, opponent's ball.

If I fumble, and the ball goes out of bounds before anyone recovers, our ball.

If I fumble and nobody recovers, the catch never happened.

WHY? Why does that make sense?
It doesn't make sense. It's a bad rule that will probably be changed in the offseason.

I'd also say games like this will highlight the importance of teams grabbing that ball, so it might self-police itself.
 

remydat

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Really not that completed. The catch and fumble are two separate things. The rule should be whether there was a catch. If there was then it is a catch. If there is no clear recovery then like any other situation, the ball stays with the offense. Pretty simple really.
 

didshereallysaythat

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You guys are missing the actual rule here for when no one recovers the ball.

If they call it a catch on the field and down by contact (and looking at the replay it's really a fumble) then the catch stands and the team that fumbled keeps the ball there.

A catch that really happened is only called incomplete if it was called incomplete on the field so they stay with the call. So it's not about magically turning it into incomplete. It's about not OVERTURNING the call.
 
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