CF options????

[CSF77]

I wonder how they would do if they platooned Fowler and Coghlan. Coghlan against righties, and Fowler against lefties.

Denorfia is arguably better than both right now.

 

[SilenceS]

Sometimes you have to just go for it. 2003 was a 1 hit wonder. Injuries happen. Current team has been filling the system with talent better than Hendry did. Still they are in it now. You can not predict the future.

The Cubs plan on doing it. They aren't going all in or even aggressively in. They will make some moves that will be slight upgrades or strengthen a spot and thats it.

 

[beckdawg]

Owners look at $$$ for the most part. Tommy is a fan boy and I would be surprised if he pulled the cash strings closed. I do not see it. After they just got the manager they wanted and dumped into Lester. Got wonderboy on the team with his little buddy. If there is a clear need they will address it.

Like if Hammel goes on the 15 day. They will make a trade. Trust me. They have been talking it but there has been no sense of urgency. Losing 1 of your top 3...ya that causes a sense of urgency.

The fact is they can not afford to lose Hammel for any amount of time. They have no quality depth in AAA to back fill. So ya this could signal a trade. Not to mention Kaz left after the 3rd with a shoulder issue. That makes him bad trade goods now. So this is where we see if the team starts to put up some talent to make this season work.

I'd throw out that Pierce Johnson isn't that far fetched as a possibility in the semi-recent future. He's still coming back in AA where he's pitched 23.2 IP with a 5.70 k/9 3.42 bb/9 and a 1.14/3.45 ERA/FIP. He's typically been in the high 8's to 9 k/9 so he's clearly not 100% back yet. I wouldn't expect him before the rosters expand but since he has such a late start you really aren't worried about innings with him this year. Another 2-3 good AA starts and you could see him promoted to AAA. If things go well there.... who knows.

You also have Edwards in AAA who's been babied in terms of IP. He's only thrown 39.1 IP this year. His walk rate has been up there pretty high so again not a 100% lock option here but I guess my point I'm trying to make is that everyone wants to win now. It could be equally prudent to stand pat and see what you have in players. If Fowler comes out of this slump you probably re-sign him at the end of the year or at the very least throw a QO on him and get a pick if he leaves. In terms of Hammel replacement/5th starter, maybe you throw a guy like Edwards or Pierce out there for 5-10 starts and see how they fair. Even if they aren't ready and get shelled it's possible that experience helps the 2016+ teams.

Long story short, I don't see a point in playing to win in 2015. They honestly aren't a good enough team unless everything breaks right. I see it as playing to win in 2016+ and if that helps you in 2015 then great. So, any player you try to acquire should be part of your plan for the next 2-5 years unless like I've mentioned it's just a bench bat that cost next to nothing. That's why I liked the Richard move. Low cost move that helps in 2015 but doesn't limit you going forward.

 

[beckdawg]

I wonder how they would do if they platooned Fowler and Coghlan. Coghlan against righties, and Fowler against lefties.

Not sure Cogs defense plays in CF. Also, they are already platooning Deno and Cogs to an extent.

 

[Boobaby1]

Not sure Cogs defense plays in CF. Also, they are already platooning Deno and Cogs to an extent.

Deno hits righties well. Fowler, not so much. I think the Fowler hitting left handed might be something to look at.

As far as Richard. If he throws anything like he did tonight, I want no part of him.

I could see after the second pitch that he had the same delivery, ball speed, and was elevating everything. The Cardinals were ripping him as evidenced by Wacha's two hits, and the bottom of the order was raking him over the coals.

I am amazed that he gave up that amount of runs. I thought Maddon was purposely throwing the game away and not using up his bullpen, and then I wondered, where's Wood?

The Cubs definitely need to get a pitcher by the deadline. They are walking on thin ice. Wada coming back and being the 6th pitcher is one thing. The Cubs can ill-afford any injuries to the staff.

They need a little insurance.

 

[beckdawg]

As far as Richard. If he throws anything like he did tonight, I want no part of him.

Don't get me wrong I don't think Richard is some amazing get. On his best days he's a 4/5. When I mentioned him what I meant was that he was cheap depth. It wasn't long ago that we were paying Baker $5 mil as potential depth. I don't know how much the cubs paid the pirates but I sincerely doubt it was anything approaching $5 mil. With that being said, he buys you time and essentially costs nothing. They already got one good start out of him so he's probably worth what the paid. You wont win any awards for getting by with ugly players but buying time has it's place. If they can get by with guys until the offseason it presents better options than having to deal at the deadline.

 

[CSF77]

What shocked me was the fact they even put the #5 starter in there in the first place. It just signals that they already have something in the works.


It makes little sense to do that normally.

 

[schizm032003]

Deno hits righties well. Fowler, not so much. I think the Fowler hitting left handed might be something to look at.

As far as Richard. If he throws anything like he did tonight, I want no part of him.

I could see after the second pitch that he had the same delivery, ball speed, and was elevating everything. The Cardinals were ripping him as evidenced by Wacha's two hits, and the bottom of the order was raking him over the coals.

I am amazed that he gave up that amount of runs. I thought Maddon was purposely throwing the game away and not using up his bullpen, and then I wondered, where's Wood?

The Cubs definitely need to get a pitcher by the deadline. They are walking on thin ice. Wada coming back and being the 6th pitcher is one thing. The Cubs can ill-afford any injuries to the staff.

They need a little insurance.

i have to agree, Richard isnt a guy we can rely on to solidify a spot in the rotation. Especially with the offense struggling at times. I just dont trust him to keep opponents in check. He will pitch well at times, but not enough to rely on him. He gives up too many hits, and those hits turn into runs. I dont really expect the front office to go all out to get help this year, but i do expect them to add some things. I really wasnt on the get Hammels train at first, but looking at the cost of a big name free agent pitcher will be far greater than what Hammels costs over the rest of his contract.

I am thinking we could get Hammels and Revere with a good pckage that we dont have to give up Schwarber. Baez, Johnson, AA, Villanueva, and Edwards should be enough to get it done. Then I'd work out a deal to get Zobrist from the A's, maybe Voglebach, Fowler, and Blackburn could possibly get that done, maybe we have to add another player to it, but we could work it out. We'd have fixed the rotation with Hammels, Arrieta, Lester, Hammel, and Hendricks making for a pretty strong rotation. Revere could take over CF/leadoff, giving us a better hitter in front of the big bats, along with more speed. Zobrist can play anywhere, so he'll get plenty of AB's. The offense still wouldn't be the absolute best, but it should be stronger and more consistant.

Over the rest of the year, and into the playoffs, our pitching would be extremely strong, enough to beat anyone in the game. Our offense would be stronger, and by the time the playoffs roll around they should be more consistant.

All that aside, Theo and company will make some moves, likely none of the ones we expect. probably what we would consider small types of moves that wont make big headlines, but should help the team regardless. This past four games with the cardinals showed that we really aren't too far off from being the better team. We have a few holes, and some kids that are developing, and if St.Louis don't realize it by now, they will soon enough, that these aren't the same cubs they feasted upon, but we are not only competitive in games with them, we can beat them, that we arent going away.

 

[beckdawg]

I am going to throw out an idea i had previously. Around mid may it was reported the Red Sox offered Jackie Bradley Jr. to the M's for left-handed reliever Charlie Furbush and Seattle turned it down. Furbush has been a pretty good reliever But he's clearly not an amazing return for Bradley who was once viewed as a pretty good prospect. BA had him as their #50 prospect in 2014 and #31 in 2013. That being said, he's stunk at the major league level hitting .193/.266/.277. The obvious question is why trade for him? Well to start with he's a lefty which would at least in theory offer you an option against the bad splits Fowler has. Additionally, he's an EXCELLENT defender. MLB.com had a 70 grade on his fielding and UZR backs that up with at 22.6 over 900 innings last year which is quite literally gold glove caliber. So, as a bench bat he offers you compelling defense. There's also a Theo connection here as Theo drafted him prior to leaving.

Now things could have changed in what Boston wants for him since the start of the season. He hit .314/.390/.462 with 9.1%/13.9% bb/k rates over 252 PAs in AAA. The thing is the Sox already have Mookie Betts in CF and he's been one of the better players in the majors. They also recently gave Rusney Castillo a boat load of money and he potentially also profiles as a CF. He's been up and down this year though he was just sent back down after being up since late june where he hit .211/.273/.368 over 22 PAs. So clearly there is some work to be done.

To me he presents an interesting buy low chance. Boston is last int he AL east and could go either way either trying to buy at the deadline(they are only 5.5 back of the Yanks) or they might sell off. Given they don't really need Bradley either way he is probably some what available regardless. It's also sort of weird to see that sort of AAA batting line for a player to be as terrible as he has been at the major league level. He's had 565 PAs so there is at least a decent sample there but a guy who hits .300+ in AAA you really don't expect to see at .193 in the majors. If they could get him up into the .240-.250 range he becomes around an average hitter with that walk rate. He also gives you options on what to do with Fowler after the season where presently the cubs lack a 2016 CF unless it's Alcantara who has his own issues atm.

Obviously the big catch here is what does he cost. It's hard to say but as long as it's not something crazy I think he'd definitely be worth a look. Considering they were previously looking for a lefty reliever I sort of wonder if Wood might interest them. The cubs sort of have an issue with both him and Jackson in the pen and this would alleviate some of that plus offer a potential upgrade to the bench.

 

[brett05]

What about contacting the Braves on Cameron Maybin?

 

[TC in Mississippi]

What about contacting the Braves on Cameron Maybin?

Wouldn't shock me if they already have. The thing is I think Atlanta still thinks they're in it and the Cubs are the team they're chasing so if they were to make a deal it would right at the wire.

 

[beckdawg]

What about contacting the Braves on Cameron Maybin?

They still have him pretty cheap at $8 and $9 mil the next two years. If they feel like they could compete in that time frame I'd imagine they'd keep him.

 

[brett05]

They still have him pretty cheap at $8 and $9 mil the next two years. If they feel like they could compete in that time frame I'd imagine they'd keep him.

I only mention it as last night the Baseball Tonight team said he was available for the right offer.

 

[beckdawg]

I only mention it as last night the Baseball Tonight team said he was available for the right offer.

Definitely not a bad idea especially with the Hoyer connection from SD as I believe he traded for him while there.

 

[beckdawg]

Sorta went off topic a bit in the prospect thread but I mentioned it there so I figure I'd bring it up here where's more relevant. These are three of the projections on Fowler the rest of the way

Zips has Fowler at .254/.350/.392 the rest of the way(108 wRC+ 0.9 fWAR).
Streamer has him at .248/.341/.379(101 wRC+ 0.5 fWAR).
Depth Charts has him at .251/.346/.385(104 wRC+ 0.6 fWAR)

I'd argue those are conservative estimates as well considering he is a career .267/.361/.415 hitter. Of CF's right now with qualified PAs only Mike Trout, Andrew McCutchen, Brett Gardner, Lorenzo Cain, Michael Brantley, Denard Span, Joc Pederson, Cameron Maybin, Billy Burns, A.J. Pollock, Charlie Blackmon, and Gerardo Parra have an OBP over .340 which is the low end projection on Fowler rest of the way. Trout, McCutchen, Gardner, Cain, and Pederson are going no where. Brantley is probably not going anywhere as he just signed a long term deal though Cleveland is bad this year. Span is hurt if memory serves plus I'd imagine the Nats want to keep him. Maybin as discussed above might be available but Atlanta might want to keep him. Burns is 25 and under contract awhile so I doubt Oakland moves him. Pollock isn't a FA until 2019 even though he is 27. So, that essentially leaves you Blackmon and Parra.

Parra rest of the way projections
ZiPS .280/.329/.423(104 wRC+ 1.0 fWAR)
Steamer .267/.320/.396(94 wRC+ 0.8 fWAR)
Depth Charts .273/.324/.410(99 wRC+ 0.8 fWAR)

Blackmon
Zips .278/.332/.433(96 wRC+ 1.1 fWAR)
Steamer .274/.326/.425(91 wRC+ 0.6 fWAR)
Depth Charts .276/.329/.429(94 wRC+ 0.8 fWAR)

As you can see they might be marginally better projection wise but it's definitely not much. Now these are obviously projections and not word of god as it were but I think it wisely illustrates what I've said about Fowler bouncing back.

 

[Grizzly]

What shocked me was the fact they even put the #5 starter in there in the first place. It just signals that they already have something in the works.


It makes little sense to do that normally.

With just 3 games left before the All Star break they had no reason to save the #5 starter.

 

[willycat]

Normally your insight is right on CS but a weak hitting, no power guy to left is all wrong. Move Bryant to either left of CF or ideally put Schwarber in Left. Then if you don't trade Castro move him to 3rd, Russell or Baez to short and then the other one plays 2nd base. Wondering what are the chances that Castro can move to the OF.

 

[CSF77]

Normally your insight is right on CS but a weak hitting, no power guy to left is all wrong. Move Bryant to either left of CF or ideally put Schwarber in Left. Then if you don't trade Castro move him to 3rd, Russell or Baez to short and then the other one plays 2nd base. Wondering what are the chances that Castro can move to the OF.

What I want them to do is trade for Will Venable. Platoon him and Fowler in CF. Venable can cover all 3 spots in the OF very well so he has more value than just a platoon player. After that LF right now is Cogs and Denorfia.

Looking over the numbers alone:

wOBA: Rizzo .410 Bryant: .368, Coghlan: .326, Montero: .320, Russell: .293, Fowler: .296, Soler: .307, Denorfia: .328, Ross: .245, Castro: .266

So out of the line up the best 2 wOBA hitters outside of Rizzo and Bryant are Coghlan and Denorfia. So the reality is those 2 have not been the problem. BTW wOBA is just about the best metric out there about player value.

The biggest problem has been Castro. .266 wOBA. Only Ross is worse. Is what it is.Rest are hovering around .300.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Make a post that has 6 legitimate options, and one admittedly not very legitimate one and we get people talking about not very legitimate throw in at the bottom of the list, Alcantara who has been garbage at the plate, and Venable a 32 year old rental.

Good to see constructive conversation is doing so well on this site. I guess talking about the 6 more legitimate options would have been a complete waste.

Why would the twins want to trade Buxton? What benefit is there to doing so?

Because Schwarber is a power hitter? They have one of those also waiting in the wings named Miguel Sano.

Because he's a "catcher" (albeit still needs work)? They extended Kurt Suzuki, and although he's part time, Mauer is still with them for 4 more years.

If you're Minnesota, why are you making this deal? You make a bigger hole for yourself dealing the only legit CF prospect you got. Their next best OF prospect? Adam Walker II.

And he's garbage. And also not a CF.

There is no reason for the Twins to deal Buxton unless it were for another super-prospect. Even then it would have to be right for Minnesota to take it.

 

[Zvbxrpl]

I am going to throw out an idea i had previously. Around mid may it was reported the Red Sox offered Jackie Bradley Jr. to the M's for left-handed reliever Charlie Furbush and Seattle turned it down. Furbush has been a pretty good reliever But he's clearly not an amazing return for Bradley who was once viewed as a pretty good prospect. BA had him as their #50 prospect in 2014 and #31 in 2013. That being said, he's stunk at the major league level hitting .193/.266/.277. The obvious question is why trade for him? Well to start with he's a lefty which would at least in theory offer you an option against the bad splits Fowler has. Additionally, he's an EXCELLENT defender. MLB.com had a 70 grade on his fielding and UZR backs that up with at 22.6 over 900 innings last year which is quite literally gold glove caliber. So, as a bench bat he offers you compelling defense. There's also a Theo connection here as Theo drafted him prior to leaving.

Now things could have changed in what Boston wants for him since the start of the season. He hit .314/.390/.462 with 9.1%/13.9% bb/k rates over 252 PAs in AAA. The thing is the Sox already have Mookie Betts in CF and he's been one of the better players in the majors. They also recently gave Rusney Castillo a boat load of money and he potentially also profiles as a CF. He's been up and down this year though he was just sent back down after being up since late june where he hit .211/.273/.368 over 22 PAs. So clearly there is some work to be done.

To me he presents an interesting buy low chance. Boston is last int he AL east and could go either way either trying to buy at the deadline(they are only 5.5 back of the Yanks) or they might sell off. Given they don't really need Bradley either way he is probably some what available regardless. It's also sort of weird to see that sort of AAA batting line for a player to be as terrible as he has been at the major league level. He's had 565 PAs so there is at least a decent sample there but a guy who hits .300+ in AAA you really don't expect to see at .193 in the majors. If they could get him up into the .240-.250 range he becomes around an average hitter with that walk rate. He also gives you options on what to do with Fowler after the season where presently the cubs lack a 2016 CF unless it's Alcantara who has his own issues atm.

Obviously the big catch here is what does he cost. It's hard to say but as long as it's not something crazy I think he'd definitely be worth a look. Considering they were previously looking for a lefty reliever I sort of wonder if Wood might interest them. The cubs sort of have an issue with both him and Jackson in the pen and this would alleviate some of that plus offer a potential upgrade to the bench.

The cubs already have a disappointing hyped kid I'd rather just keep named Albert Almora.