Did D-Rose cheat on his SAT exam?

[Diddy1122]

Just came across this on espn.com. Now it doesn't directly name the player in question, but given the wording of the report, there's a definite chance it was D-Rose. I really hope I'm just totally off-base here.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=4210798

 

[Diddy1122]

Though I hate to be the first to reply to my own thread but I just went thru the rosters for the Tigers in 07-08 & 08-09 and Rose is the only player who was on there that played just one season (07-08 & 08 Tourney). Think that pretty much seals it.

 

[ryguy24]

Uh oh.

 

[RPK]

Pretty much confirms that the NCAA is investigating Rose

The University of Memphis is in the process of responding to an NCAA notice of allegations charging the men’s basketball program with major violations during the 2007-08 season under John Calipari.

The allegations include “knowing fraudulence or misconduct” on an SAT exam by a player on the 2007-08 team.

The wording of the report seems to indicate the player in question only competed during the 2007-08 season and specifically the 2008 NCAA tournament. The player’s name was redacted in the report, obtained by The Commercial Appeal through the Freedom of Information Act, due to privacy laws.

The player has subsequently denied the charge, according to university personnel.

The only player on the roster who competed only during that season was Derrick Rose, who subsequently was the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft last June.

If proven to be true, the Tigers could be forced to forfeit their NCAA-record 38 victories and Final Four appearance.

The report does not include allegations of lack of institutional control, meaning Memphis would likely avoid serious penalties that would have an impact on the program going forward. The report includes no allegations that would have occurred during the tenure of Josh Pastner, either as an assistant or head coach.

Memphis, which received the notice of allegations Jan. 16, is scheduled to appear before the NCAA Committee on Infractions June 6.

Calipari, who left Memphis for Kentucky on March 31, is not named in the report, but the NCAA has requested his presence at the hearing.

It is also alleged that Memphis provided $2,260 in free travel to road games for an associate of a player. The NCAA is charging Memphis with a failure to monitor in that instance. Those names also were redacted in the report due to privacy laws.

“We take it very seriously. We don’t condone it,” said athletic director R.C. Johnson, who declined to comment in detail about the allegations. “We’re doing a thorough investigation.”

Johnson said the university of “still working” on its response to the NCAA notice of allegations.

I don't want to be a Rose-apologist or condone academic cheating, but *if* (and to his somewhat defense, he has denied the allegation) he committed this act, this gets filed under that 'Noah-smokes-weed' file where, it's not that horrible, but you wish he would show better judgment. And to his further defense, he has mentioned multiple times of going back to school and finishing his degree. So at least he has verbally spoken his willingness to work hard at his continuing education.

Let's face it, high school players of Rose' caliber do not go to college for an education.

 

[OnePointSeven]

http://collegeapps.about.com/od/collegeprofiles/p/memphis.htm

Admissions Data (2007):

* Percent of Applicants Admitted: 66.2%
* Test Scores -- 25th / 75th Percentile
o SAT Critical Reading: 460 / 620
o SAT Math: 460 / 580
o SAT Writing: 460 / 570
o ACT Composite: 19 / 25
o ACT English: 19 / 25
o ACT Math: 17 / 24

And that's the admissions criteria for those that aren't big time basketball players. Really, its not that hard to get into Memphis. Its kind of scary someone would need to cheat (Rose I'm talking to you sir).

 

[TheStig]

Don't worry Joey Dorsey will tell us.

 

[wjb1492]

RPK wrote:

I don't want to be a Rose-apologist or condone academic cheating, but *if* (and to his somewhat defense, he has denied the allegation) he committed this act, this gets filed under that 'Noah-smokes-weed' file where, it's not that horrible, but you wish he would show better judgment.

Obviously we don't know "for sure" that the report is talking about Derrick or that it's fully accurate, but I disagree this fits in the same category as Joakim's smoking choice. IMO, it's way more serious, if this is in fact what happened. Going 105 mph is the "oops, bad choice" equivalent of smoking weed - academic fraud is a major integrity issue in my book, and this is far beyond plagiarizing a book report.

So I have no desire to jump to conclusions and convict Derrick on what little info is out there, but if true it's a major deal to me. But maybe my opinions are way off the majority view - I'm in academics, so of course that colors my perspective.

 

[Dpauley23]

Who cares if school isn't his thing. Im sure there bunch of people who do this. I that I care about is that he's got great basketball IQ

 

[Dpauley23]

How do we even know Rose knew about this? They could of never and even told him. By the way his brother Reggie is the associate

 

[RPK]

wjb1492 wrote:

Obviously we don't know "for sure" that the report is talking about Derrick or that it's fully accurate, but I disagree this fits in the same category as Joakim's smoking choice. IMO, it's way more serious, if this is in fact what happened. Going 105 mph is the "oops, bad choice" equivalent of smoking weed - academic fraud is a major integrity issue in my book, and this is far beyond plagiarizing a book report.

So I have no desire to jump to conclusions and convict Derrick on what little info is out there, but if true it's a major deal to me. But maybe my opinions are way off the majority view - I'm in academics, so of course that colors my perspective.

It could be argued that high level collegiate athletics has turned it's back on academic integrity a long time ago in favor of winning.

 

[Manic Devourer]

It explains why he is incapable of speaking properly. He is a doofus.

 

[collisrost]

I can feel a re-hash of the "NCAA has got its system all wrong" posts coming.

Honestly, I think it's not good that something like this happened (assuming it did) but considering he didn't actually try to get his degree it's not as serious academically as it could have been. I mean players cheat all the time in games they try to push off without the refs seeing it, they flop, etc. It's part of the culture of basketball to try to cheat if you can get away with it. It's not surprising this culture will sometimes spread off the court.

 

[Diddy1122]

RPK wrote:

Pretty much confirms that the NCAA is investigating Rose

The University of Memphis is in the process of responding to an NCAA notice of allegations charging the men’s basketball program with major violations during the 2007-08 season under John Calipari.

The allegations include “knowing fraudulence or misconduct” on an SAT exam by a player on the 2007-08 team.

The wording of the report seems to indicate the player in question only competed during the 2007-08 season and specifically the 2008 NCAA tournament. The player’s name was redacted in the report, obtained by The Commercial Appeal through the Freedom of Information Act, due to privacy laws.

The player has subsequently denied the charge, according to university personnel.

The only player on the roster who competed only during that season was Derrick Rose, who subsequently was the No. 1 pick in the NBA draft last June.

If proven to be true, the Tigers could be forced to forfeit their NCAA-record 38 victories and Final Four appearance.

The report does not include allegations of lack of institutional control, meaning Memphis would likely avoid serious penalties that would have an impact on the program going forward. The report includes no allegations that would have occurred during the tenure of Josh Pastner, either as an assistant or head coach.

Memphis, which received the notice of allegations Jan. 16, is scheduled to appear before the NCAA Committee on Infractions June 6.

Calipari, who left Memphis for Kentucky on March 31, is not named in the report, but the NCAA has requested his presence at the hearing.

It is also alleged that Memphis provided $2,260 in free travel to road games for an associate of a player. The NCAA is charging Memphis with a failure to monitor in that instance. Those names also were redacted in the report due to privacy laws.

“We take it very seriously. We don’t condone it,” said athletic director R.C. Johnson, who declined to comment in detail about the allegations. “We’re doing a thorough investigation.”

Johnson said the university of “still working” on its response to the NCAA notice of allegations.

I don't want to be a Rose-apologist or condone academic cheating, but *if* (and to his somewhat defense, he has denied the allegation) he committed this act, this gets filed under that 'Noah-smokes-weed' file where, it's not that horrible, but you wish he would show better judgment. And to his further defense, he has mentioned multiple times of going back to school and finishing his degree. So at least he has verbally spoken his willingness to work hard at his continuing education.

Let's face it, high school players of Rose' caliber do not go to college for an education.

There's no way that cheating to get into college is the same as smokin' a lil weed. It's preposterous that you would even lump it in that category. And so he mentioned his willingness to work to continue his education, hmm..., at the school he cheated to get into in the first place? That's not really a good character defense.

I understand the NCAA and the Alumni Association, which is really who's to blame for all this rampant corruption in College basketball. Star players always get preferential treatment, cars, loans, clothes, even apartments. And then people wonder why so many "stars" end up bankrupt. Kids go off to college to learn how to stand on their own two feet, discover their place in this world, and learn how best to make their mark on it. The way athletes are pampered starting in high school and all the way up to the pros is doing nothing but turning them into a bunch of grown teenagers. And that's how many of them act.

Rose does not conduct himself in this way, and I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, but if it turns out it was him, I've lost some serious respect for him as an individual.

 

[Seth]

I totally agree with WJB. On a side note I firmly believe that players should have the option of entering the NBA in High School. I think the restriction is stupid and encourages institutions to disrespect themselves by admitting people with such blatant disregard to it's own function as a place of learning-- I'm talking about people who are locks to leave after their year, with absolutely no intention of obtaining a degree.

This might be naive fandom but I want to believe our star point guard, the floor general, the default "team leader" to possess the intelligence, if not the academic work ethic, to meet the meager SAT score requirement. Not to mention the whole academic integrity thing, which I think is especially disgusting considering these guys are destined to be role models to generations of school kids. While Kevin Garnett's borderline special-ed struggles (failing the ACT twice) have been well documented, his "enthusiasm" and "outgoing" nature somewhat compensate for his inability to articulate himself (from an outsider perspective). This revelation is troubling, since Rose seems equally inarticulate in on-court interviews but, unlike Garnett, mantains a stoic demeanor. The evidence points to lack of charisma, a quality which scares me in our future star. Obviously, there is more than one way to "lead", but if he's not going to be a vocal I'd at least expect him show better judgement. This leaves a bad bad taste in my mouth, as both a college student and a fan.

 

[dougthonus]

wjb1492 wrote:

RPK wrote:

I don't want to be a Rose-apologist or condone academic cheating, but *if* (and to his somewhat defense, he has denied the allegation) he committed this act, this gets filed under that 'Noah-smokes-weed' file where, it's not that horrible, but you wish he would show better judgment.

Obviously we don't know "for sure" that the report is talking about Derrick or that it's fully accurate, but I disagree this fits in the same category as Joakim's smoking choice. IMO, it's way more serious, if this is in fact what happened. Going 105 mph is the "oops, bad choice" equivalent of smoking weed - academic fraud is a major integrity issue in my book, and this is far beyond plagiarizing a book report.

So I have no desire to jump to conclusions and convict Derrick on what little info is out there, but if true it's a major deal to me. But maybe my opinions are way off the majority view - I'm in academics, so of course that colors my perspective.

There's always a negative when it comes to cheating. To me, the cheating is sort of irrelevant from the perspective that he's using it to get past a barrier which is placed in front of him which isn't impactful on his career choice.

I guess I dislike the college basketball system so much. To me the universities are using these guys for so much profit. Who really cares what his SAT score is? Does it really matter? Why should it prevent him from playing basketball for a year for a college so he can get to the NBA which is all he really wants to do?

At some level I think the rules are designed to protect the kids from being exploited, but I don't think they accomplish that goal at all.

For me, I take this as a minor negative, but no worse than what OJ Mayo did or what most other top prospects are doing. He wants to play basketball, so he got past some barrier that's not related to basketball illegally. It's not a great moral play, but oh well.

The only thing I really take out of this is a good chuckle at those who put Rose on a moral high horse relative to Beasley.

 

[Diddy1122]

Stern needs to let players come into the NBA straight out of high school again. It's as simple as that. It makes absolutely no sense for these players to play 1 meaningless year of college ball and then jump to the NBA. It's a mockery to the education system, and they are taking the place of other students who really go there to learn and get a degree.

I don't understand why Stern ever changed it, and if he makes it a 20yr and older age limit after the next CBA, it's only going to get worse.

 

[Dpauley23]

To me it seems really wierd why he would take a SAT though. Memphis takes either ACT or SAT, one of his top choices was Illinois (which I think he was learning towards), his high school would offer ACT for free while he would have to pay 75 dollars or so while his family probably doesn't have that type of money to use

 

[wjb1492]

RPK wrote:

wjb1492 wrote:

Obviously we don't know "for sure" that the report is talking about Derrick or that it's fully accurate, but I disagree this fits in the same category as Joakim's smoking choice. IMO, it's way more serious, if this is in fact what happened. Going 105 mph is the "oops, bad choice" equivalent of smoking weed - academic fraud is a major integrity issue in my book, and this is far beyond plagiarizing a book report.

So I have no desire to jump to conclusions and convict Derrick on what little info is out there, but if true it's a major deal to me. But maybe my opinions are way off the majority view - I'm in academics, so of course that colors my perspective.

It could be argued that high level collegiate athletics has turned it's back on academic integrity a long time ago in favor of winning.

To a great extent I'd agree with that statement - I don't excuse universities for it, either. There's plenty of blame to go around where academic fraud is concerned in connection with athletics. So do you just want to excuse an individual athlete if anyone else is involved? In my book, that means everyone screwed up, not that responsibility is so diluted you act like no one should be held accountable.

But, like I said, this is an issue I feel strongly on. I've had plenty of people tell me "everyone does it" or "it's not a big deal" - but when I catch a student cheating I still go through the whole university process of filing an academic integrity violation.

 

[OnePointSeven]

dougthonus wrote:

wjb1492 wrote:

RPK wrote:

I don't want to be a Rose-apologist or condone academic cheating, but *if* (and to his somewhat defense, he has denied the allegation) he committed this act, this gets filed under that 'Noah-smokes-weed' file where, it's not that horrible, but you wish he would show better judgment.

Obviously we don't know "for sure" that the report is talking about Derrick or that it's fully accurate, but I disagree this fits in the same category as Joakim's smoking choice. IMO, it's way more serious, if this is in fact what happened. Going 105 mph is the "oops, bad choice" equivalent of smoking weed - academic fraud is a major integrity issue in my book, and this is far beyond plagiarizing a book report.

So I have no desire to jump to conclusions and convict Derrick on what little info is out there, but if true it's a major deal to me. But maybe my opinions are way off the majority view - I'm in academics, so of course that colors my perspective.

There's always a negative when it comes to cheating. To me, the cheating is sort of irrelevant from the perspective that he's using it to get past a barrier which is placed in front of him which isn't impactful on his career choice.

I guess I dislike the college basketball system so much. To me the universities are using these guys for so much profit. Who really cares what his SAT score is? Does it really matter? Why should it prevent him from playing basketball for a year for a college so he can get to the NBA which is all he really wants to do?

At some level I think the rules are designed to protect the kids from being exploited, but I don't think they accomplish that goal at all.

For me, I take this as a minor negative, but no worse than what OJ Mayo did or what most other top prospects are doing. He wants to play basketball, so he got past some barrier that's not related to basketball illegally. It's not a great moral play, but oh well.

The only thing I really take out of this is a good chuckle at those who put Rose on a moral high horse relative to Beasley.

This is what I loved about Brandon Jennings' move. Personally, I'd rather protect the world of academics and have more players go overseas to make some money and still get to the NBA in a year than I would simply accept cheating on a standardized test.

These kids could care less about academics and I don't blame them. But that doesn't make cheating right. If you can't play by the NCAA rules then don't. Go overseas, prove yourself and earn your way back stateside. Heck, most players will learn more overseas than they would here anyhow.

 

[Diddy1122]

Dpauley23 wrote:

To me it seems really wierd why he would take a SAT though. Memphis takes either ACT or SAT, one of his top choices was Illinois (which I think he was learning towards), his high school would offer ACT for free while he would have to pay 75 dollars or so while his family probably doesn't have that type of money to use

I was thinking the same thing, Dpauley. Maybe U of I wasn't willing to cheat on the SAT for him.

Wonder what happens to Calipari now? Will Kentucky fire him now?