Doug Williams comment about QBs and race

[Rory Sparrow]

Second, I never said a team drafts a black QB with the intention of playing him at QB. Again that is you misreading the comment.

What on earth is going on?

 

[Rory Sparrow]

5. My point was if Curry were not able to play WR, he perhaps continues to try and make it as a QB and develops his game further.

The only way that this could be a point is if the NFL drafted every black college QB, and converted every black college QB to WR so then no black college QB would ever have the 'opportunity' to try and make it as a QB and develop their game further....because they would all be playing in the NFL already!

I'm not sure what is going on.

 

[FirstTimer]

5. My point was if Curry were not able to play WR, he perhaps continues to try and make it as a QB and develops his game further. He didn't do that because he could play WR. The point was never that this was a racial thing. Hence why I noted Tebow was asked to play FB or TE because he had the athletic ability. Edelman also was a QB at one time. You guys are assuming it was a comment about racism when it was a comment about opportunity. That opportunity stems from their athleticism. It just so happens that black QBs tend to be more athletic so more of them are likely to give up on playing QB sooner because they are asked to play another position.

LOL. I'm not assuming it's about racism. I said your "anecdotal examples" sucked.

Or because they were terrible NFL style QB's to begin with. You acting as though if they weren't athletic that the NFL would invest ANY time into undersized weak armed passers who put up the numbers that Curry, Cribbs, Randle-El, and Robinson did as QB prospects is laughable. Tim Tebow was a career 68% passer with a nearly 5:1 TD:INT ratio and people were clamoring for him to move.

 

[Novak]

I, for one, LOVE black QB's.

Idk how this all came to be, but its a strange topic for sure. I absolutely adored Vick when he was on the falcons. He was so electrifying and exciting, then he put dogs against each other and made them fight to the death. What a shame.

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

I always felt black QBs might do well.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Since this thread has been irrevocably lost to the 'vortex', I'll add a couple thoughts...

This whole discussion is semantics. Two parts are at issue...

1) What is meant by an NFL coach being "immediately convinced" (remy term) that a black college QB can't play in the NFL?

2) What is meant by "fight through" (remy term) for black college QBs that are undrafted/not playing QB in the NFL?


NFL coach watches Michael Robinson at PSU. NFL coach thinks Michael Robinson will not succeed playing QB at the NFL level. How is that different from the thousands of other college player evaluations made each season by NFL teams?

College QB not drafted by NFL team or invited to camp. With whom specifically are they 'fighting'? The NFL as a whole? If so, how is that different from the thousands of other college players who aren't invited to NFL camps?

 

[FirstTimer]

I, for one, LOVE black QB's.

Idk how this all came to be, but its a strange topic for sure. I absolutely adored Vick when he was on the falcons. He was so electrifying and exciting, then he put dogs against each other and made them fight to the death. What a shame.

I traded Urlacher for Vick in Madden 2006.

 

[Novak]

I traded Urlacher for Vick in Madden 2006.

Ironically, the cover of that Madden had another really good black QB - Donovan Mcnabb

 

[FirstTimer]

Ironically, the cover of that Madden had another really good black QB - Donovan Mcnabb

Good thing McNabb "fought" to stay at QB in the NFL.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

5. My point was if Curry were not able to play WR, he perhaps continues to try and make it as a QB and develops his game further. He didn't do that because he could play WR.

I admittedly glossed over this gem. Basically sums up everything that is wrong here.

First, even if Curry could play WR, if he REALLY wanted to play QB, he could have simply said "I'm not playing WR...I'm either playing QB or nothing", like what Warren Moon told the NFL after college. The decision is still in Curry's hands. The fact that Curry had the ability to play WR doesn't/wouldn't immediately 'disqualify' him from playing QB...which is what I said in my first post oh so many pages ago. If a guy can play QB in the NFL, it makes no sense to move that player to a less important position.

Second, the fact that Curry could play WR in the NFL doesn't really tell you anything about his QB potential. In remy's Curry scenario, the implication is that Curry has the potential to play QB in the NFL if he 'developed his game further', but simply "chose" not to and stayed at WR.

So, remy has everything opposite of reality. The "choice" aspect is if Curry accepts his WR role or tries to make it as a QB. That was never taken away from him. But Curry can't simply "chose" to become an NFL QB...that is out of his control.

 

[FirstTimer]

I admittedly glossed over this gem. Basically sums up everything that is wrong here.

First, even if Curry could play WR, if he REALLY wanted to play QB, he could have simply said "I'm not playing WR...I'm either playing QB or nothing", like what Warren Moon told the NFL after college. The decision is still in Curry's hands. The fact that Curry had the ability to play WR doesn't/wouldn't immediately 'disqualify' him from playing QB...which is what I said in my first post oh so many pages ago. If a guy can play QB in the NFL, it makes no sense to move that player to a less important position.

Second, the fact that Curry could play WR in the NFL doesn't really tell you anything about his QB potential. In remy's Curry scenario, the implication is that Curry has the potential to play QB in the NFL if he 'developed his game further', but simply "chose" not to and stayed at WR.

So, remy has everything opposite of reality. The "choice" aspect is if Curry accepts his WR role or tries to make it as a QB. That was never taken away from him. But Curry can't simply "chose" to become an NFL QB...that is out of his control.

Curry also can't "fight" to play QB within the confines of the NFL because if he chose to not change positions the Raiders would have never drafted him.

 

[remydat]

The only way that this could be a point is if the NFL drafted every black college QB, and converted every black college QB to WR so then no black college QB would ever have the 'opportunity' to try and make it as a QB and develop their game further....because they would all be playing in the NFL already!

I'm not sure what is going on.

SMH. No because there is a population of black QBs who teams consider good enough to try at QB. The comment was not an absolute statement.

Since this thread has been irrevocably lost to the 'vortex', I'll add a couple thoughts...

This whole discussion is semantics. Two parts are at issue...

1) What is meant by an NFL coach being "immediately convinced" (remy term) that a black college QB can't play in the NFL?

2) What is meant by "fight through" (remy term) for black college QBs that are undrafted/not playing QB in the NFL?

NFL coach watches Michael Robinson at PSU. NFL coach thinks Michael Robinson will not succeed playing QB at the NFL level. How is that different from the thousands of other college player evaluations made each season by NFL teams?

College QB not drafted by NFL team or invited to camp. With whom specifically are they 'fighting'? The NFL as a whole? If so, how is that different from the thousands of other college players who aren't invited to NFL camps?

1. Already told you that it means they are likely to go undrafted as a QB.

2. Already told you that it means they continue to try and develop as a QB instead of changing positions.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Curry also can't "fight" to play QB within the confines of the NFL because if he chose to not change positions the Raiders would have never drafted him.

I assume that remy means Curry would be filing numerous discrimination legal actions, negative PR tactics, etc.

 

[remydat]

I admittedly glossed over this gem. Basically sums up everything that is wrong here.

First, even if Curry could play WR, if he REALLY wanted to play QB, he could have simply said "I'm not playing WR...I'm either playing QB or nothing", like what Warren Moon told the NFL after college. The decision is still in Curry's hands. The fact that Curry had the ability to play WR doesn't/wouldn't immediately 'disqualify' him from playing QB...which is what I said in my first post oh so many pages ago. If a guy can play QB in the NFL, it makes no sense to move that player to a less important position.

Second, the fact that Curry could play WR in the NFL doesn't really tell you anything about his QB potential. In remy's Curry scenario, the implication is that Curry has the potential to play QB in the NFL if he 'developed his game further', but simply "chose" not to and stayed at WR.

So, remy has everything opposite of reality. The "choice" aspect is if Curry accepts his WR role or tries to make it as a QB. That was never taken away from him. But Curry can't simply "chose" to become an NFL QB...that is out of his control.

1. If Curry said he would only play QB then as FT notes, he wouldn't get drafted and so he would have a long road to the NFL as a QB with no guaranteed income. So instead he opted for WR because he had the option. Warren Moon took the harder path and my point is that most guys will take the easier path.

2. No in my scenario, we don't know if Curry has the potential to play in the NFL as a QB. We just know he never had the chance because he switched.

3. Never said it was taken from him. I was suggesting he will take the guaranteed route to the NFL instead of opting for the longer riskier path that a guy like Moon took. On average more people will make Curry's choice than Moon's.

Are you really that confused by the fact that if I can get drafted as a WR or be undrafted as a QB that across a population, more people will take the former rather than the latter option.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/warren-moon-1.html

Should anyone have believed in Moon above? Most likely not. Dude never even throw for over 2000 yards in a season, career under 50% passing, and 19 TDs in 3 years. Not that different than some of the guys I mentioned. The point is he took the hard road and improved while most in his situation would switch positions if they have the chance.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

1. If Curry said he would only play QB then as FT notes, he wouldn't get drafted and so he would have a long road to the NFL as a QB with no guaranteed income. So instead he opted for WR because he had the option. Warren Moon took the harder path and my point is that most guys will take the easier path.

Mind exploding here. I can't imagine a path that has Ronald Curry as a starting NFL QB. Its not a difference of "harder" and "easier", its a difference of "delusional" and "reality". Robbie Gould could probably make more money as a pass-rushing DE in the NFL, but I guess he chose the easier path of being a placekicker.

And, again, I'm not seeing your "point" with all of this. You are merely regurgitating history, adding your own incorrect asides every now-and-then.

I stopped reading at your "point #2", because I was starting to feel anger at your stupidity. I needed to step away.

 

[FirstTimer]

3. Never said it was taken from him. I was suggesting he will take the guaranteed route to the NFL instead of opting for the longer riskier path that a guy like Moon took. On average more people will make Curry's choice than Moon's.

Are you really that confused by the fact that if I can get drafted as a WR or be undrafted as a QB that across a population, more people will take the former rather than the latter option.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/warren-moon-1.html

Should anyone have believed in Moon above? Most likely not. Dude never even thru for over 2000 yards in a season, career under 50% passing, and 19 TDs in 3 years. Not that different than some of the guys I mentioned. The point is he took the hard road and improved while most in his situation would switch positions if they have the chance.

You say it's not about racism.....then you reference Moon's situation..from 1978.... which was blatant racism.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

You say it's not about racism.....then you reference Moon's situation..from 1978.... which was blatant racism.

Moon only a 49% passer in college, tho

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Remember when Warren Moon was drafted by the Raiders to play WR?

I think the 'safer' path for Moon would be to continue playing QB in the CFL. The 'riskier' path would have been trying to latch on to an NFL team as an UDFA at some other position, like OT.

 

[gwharris2254]

Oh My G** most of you guys are living in the PAST.

This is truly a TEAM sport and fielding the BEST players irregardless of any distinctions in color, ethnicity, language Irregardless of Anything.

Everyday I can "read" into things that my wife says to me and find an objection.

You All are "looking" for the objection to anyone's behavior and motives.

GET INTO ADLERIAN PSYCHOLOGY and in particular get the book "The Courage to be Disliked " audio or pdf form and become "enlightened"

 

[Xuder O'Clam]

Remember when Warren Moon was drafted by the Raiders to play WR?

I think the 'safer' path for Moon would be to continue playing QB in the CFL. The 'riskier' path would have been trying to latch on to an NFL team as an UDFA at some other position, like OT.

I would have preferred Moon went the NFL route, so he wouldn't have beat up on my Alouettes circa 1980.