Goose Gossage - Tirade

[brett05]

He needs to quit drinking cause if this is who he really is, sad, just sad.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ista-toronto-blue-jays-nerds-ruining-baseball

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

The Goose is loose.
I met him once. Nice guy. Don't agree with his "Get off my lawn" approach to baseball.

The game needs to evolve. Let it.

 

[brett05]

I hand it to Bautista and his Coach on how well they handled themselves. They handled it as if they were HOFers ironically.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

Yup.
Bautista is professional enough to not walk into that.
Mental bat flip.

 

[DMelt36]

Can also confirm that Goose is a nice guy in person, but he's do damn wrong here.

Bryce Harper was quoted in article yesterday with a series of statements that I was overjoyed to hear from a current All-Star player:

“Baseball’s tired,” he says. “It’s a tired sport, because you can’t express yourself. You can’t do what people in other sports do. I’m not saying baseball is, you know, boring or anything like that, but it’s the excitement of the young guys who are coming into the game now who have flair. If that’s Matt Harvey or Jacob deGrom or Manny Machado or Joc Pederson or Andrew McCutchen or Yasiel Puig — there’s so many guys in the game now who are so much fun.

“Jose Fernandez is a great example. Jose Fernandez will strike you out and stare you down into the dugout and pump his fist. And if you hit a homer and pimp it? He doesn’t care. Because you got him. That’s part of the game. It’s not the old feeling — hoorah ... if you pimp a homer, I’m going to hit you right in the teeth. No. If a guy pimps a homer for a game-winning shot ... I mean — sorry.”

He stops, looks around. The hell with it, he’s all in.

“If a guy pumps his fist at me on the mound, I’m going to go, ‘Yeah, you got me. Good for you. Hopefully I get you next time.’ That’s what makes the game fun. You want kids to play the game, right? What are kids playing these days? Football, basketball. Look at those players — Steph Curry, LeBron James. It’s exciting to see those players in those sports. Cam Newton — I love the way Cam goes about it. He smiles, he laughs. It’s that flair. The dramatic.”

 

[JZsportsfan]

I really agree with what Harper had to say

As for Goose, he is way out of line and I don't think many people think his comments are accurate. The game needs some enjoyment. Having "bad guys" in the game is great for baseball and if the game appreciated its personalities a bit more, I think a lot more people would get into the game

 

[brett05]

Goose should research a bit more. Rose was a fighter. Mantle was a bat flipper. Heck, Goose himself was a pioneer in the way baseball changed (use of a closer).

 

[Parade_Rain]

Goose should research a bit more. Rose was a fighter. Mantle was a bat flipper. Heck, Goose himself was a pioneer in the way baseball changed (use of a closer).

Reggie Jackson never had style, etc. Older people like to misremember their own generational experiences, so they can feel better about themselves. Some of these pitchers on TV agreeing with him are laughable. Throw at somebody. LOL. Pitchers yell and pump their fists after big strikeouts. I don't see hitters throwing their bats at them in retaliation. It's not a well reasoned position, IMHO.

 

[The Hawk]

He needs to quit drinking cause if this is who he really is, sad, just sad.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/1...ista-toronto-blue-jays-nerds-ruining-baseball

I think Goose had some good points. I especially agree on his opinion that there are way too many analytics in the game that determine actions taken. I forget that guy's name on MLB baseball but to hear him and his fellow zealots talk, you'd think that they know more about the game than those who played it and managed it. It drives me nuts when guys like this criticize moves made on players based on statistical inference. I also agree with him on the bat flip and the slow trot around the bases. ANd then the pitcher gets dissed like that. That never happened in my day when pitching. I never had Goose's velocity but an 88 or so fastball to the ribs or back still hurts like hell

 

[The Hawk]

I really agree with what Harper had to say

As for Goose, he is way out of line and I don't think many people think his comments are accurate. The game needs some enjoyment. Having "bad guys" in the game is great for baseball and if the game appreciated its personalities a bit more, I think a lot more people would get into the game

There was no bigger personality in the game when he played than Goose and he is right, baseball policed itself. Now if you so much as throw to the inside corner after being shown up by assholes like Bautista, you get kicked out. What a great thing that would be if they could go back in time and let a prime of life Gossage throw to Bautista with the old rules. Bench clearing brawls. Bull-pens running from the pen to the field. Juan Marischal and Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, and Don Drysdale against Rose, McCovey, and Roseboro.

But now, Goose is right, the "nerds" are policing and dictating the game and now it is sad that baseball is being allowed to go the way of the NFL with end zone celebrating, thrusting your balls into an opponents face, special dances as your team in introduced in the NBA.

Personally, I liked Walter's approach in football..........after a great run, handing the ball to the referee and letting everyone know that YOU HAVE BEEN THERE BEFORE

There were many bad asses in the game back then. Big time bad asses

 

[brett05]

I think Goose had some good points. I especially agree on his opinion that there are way too many analytics in the game that determine actions taken. I forget that guy's name on MLB baseball but to hear him and his fellow zealots talk, you'd think that they know more about the game than those who played it and managed it. It drives me nuts when guys like this criticize moves made on players based on statistical inference. I also agree with him on the bat flip and the slow trot around the bases. ANd then the pitcher gets dissed like that. That never happened in my day when pitching. I never had Goose's velocity but an 88 or so fastball to the ribs or back still hurts like hell

Back in your day?

Mickey Mantle
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mickey+mantle+bat+flip

Pete Rose Collision and then the mocking stance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fj2B9z4Dbw

Beaming a batter because for at least one pitch you sucked big time is insane. How about pitch better?

While I love the traditional stats, technology has improved every single sport without exception. Can it go too far? Sure. But that doesn't mean there isn't improvements. Sorry, Joe Maddon is a top 3 coach right now and he never played the game. On the other side we are saddled with Robin Ventura who was a great ball player and a pretty lousy manager. Tony Larussa and Bobby Cox are alll time great managers but eh players. Ted Williams was a bad manager, but a great player. Sorry, the folks that use technology are ahead of those that refuse it. And it's looking more and more likely that the lightning is going to hit a second time for one Theo Epstein. Ya know a guy that doesn't play?

Sorry, you are Goose share one thing with this. Both being dead wrong.

 

[brett05]

There was no bigger personality in the game when he played than Goose

Al Hrabrosky, Reggie Jackson, Luis Tiant...three quick guys that might object to that.

 

[brett05]

And let's not forget about Ron Santo

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ron+santo+heel+click

 

[Diehardfan]

It's a different game in many ways these days, mostly from league mandated rules for player safety but Gossage is right about one thing....back in the day, you wouldn't bat flip against guys like Gibson, Drysdale, Marishal or even Ryan for that matter. They wouldn't drill you in the ass...they'd spin your cap around on you with upper 90s heat.

 

[The Hawk]

Back in your day?

Mickey Mantle
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=mickey+mantle+bat+flip

Pete Rose Collision and then the mocking stance
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Fj2B9z4Dbw

Beaming a batter because for at least one pitch you sucked big time is insane. How about pitch better?

While I love the traditional stats, technology has improved every single sport without exception. Can it go too far? Sure. But that doesn't mean there isn't improvements. Sorry, Joe Maddon is a top 3 coach right now and he never played the game. On the other side we are saddled with Robin Ventura who was a great ball player and a pretty lousy manager. Tony Larussa and Bobby Cox are alll time great managers but eh players. Ted Williams was a bad manager, but a great player. Sorry, the folks that use technology are ahead of those that refuse it. And it's looking more and more likely that the lightning is going to hit a second time for one Theo Epstein. Ya know a guy that doesn't play?

Sorry, you are Goose share one thing with this. Both being dead wrong.

I am not wrong. I did not say that you had to be a major league player to be a major league manager. In fact I never mentioned manager at all and that had nothing to do with the points that Gossage and I made. ANd I did not even say that statistics aren't important. Sure they are but are only a part of the game and not the why all and be all that bozo on the Espn baseball show says they are. Guys like that do not understand the actual decisions that a manager or coach makes which consider factors like injuries, scouting, defensive position, where to pitch a certain hitter, how a player will react to being taken out, family problems, substance abuse, et al.

What upsets me is the extent that they want to use statistics in baseball as a predictive device and want to take the actual decision making good managers use out of it. That is ridiculous. WHere most of these advanced statistics were developed was in the area of salary negotiation and arbitration. Then it advanced beyond to the areas of placing a value on players relative performance which Billy Bean and company used extensively. ANd I can agree to some of that. The story that doesn't get told, though, on the Bean lore is that the A's success was driven more by the great talent scouting that the A's had to spot talent and develop it within a baseball development organization in which all managers and coaches on every level teach the same basic system on how to approach and play the game. But people read a book about him and believe that all it takes to be a baseball manager or GM is reams of stats developed to try and predict performance.

As for Mickey Mantle and Pete Rose? What does that have to do with anything? Did I say anything about these generational players not acting as assholes? Nope. I didn't. What I said was that the game was better when asshole behavior was policed by the players themselves and payback delivered. Now baseball wants to go the way of the WWF where fucking idiots like Bautista and Fernandez can act to their hearts content and idiot fans cheer them on. Where Roid users like that jerk-off in Milwaukee and the AROID in NY get cheered with standing ovations by dumb assed "fans" of the game.

So, Brett, don't twist my argument like you attempted to do by introducing facts not in evidence. All I am doing is standing up for the way the game was played when I played and coached it. I followed Gossage when both he and Terry Foster originally came up with the White Sox. Two of the best young pitchers I have ever seen come up at the same time. Gossage has a right to his opinions and has a lot of other people who agree with him and not the Bautistas and Harpers of the world.

 

[The Hawk]

Goose should research a bit more. Rose was a fighter. Mantle was a bat flipper. Heck, Goose himself was a pioneer in the way baseball changed (use of a closer).

Research a little more? Gossage well remembers Pete Rose and company.

 

[The Hawk]

Al Hrabrosky, Reggie Jackson, Luis Tiant...three quick guys that might object to that.

Way to nitpick. I am talking about guys who knew all about payback and Gossage was as feared a guy that ever existed. Up there with Marischal, Drysdale, Gibson, and Ryan. He was huge, strong, and feared noone. Like I said, I would love to have Bautista show up Gossage once and have Gossage have a crack at him later. THAT would be fun to see.

 

[The Hawk]

Reggie Jackson never had style, etc. Older people like to misremember their own generational experiences, so they can feel better about themselves. Some of these pitchers on TV agreeing with him are laughable. Throw at somebody. LOL. Pitchers yell and pump their fists after big strikeouts. I don't see hitters throwing their bats at them in retaliation. It's not a well reasoned position, IMHO.

I am an old person and I do not misremember anything. And...... very few pitchers yell and pump their fists after big strike-outs. At least the smart ones don't. A Sure there is the excitement of the moment and a player's satisfaction about doing well BUT...........the idea of SHOWING UP THE OTHER GUY is just WRONG. Personal excitement is fine but there is no need to taunt the other guy. That is not sportsmanship. Just as I've said before. I believe in the Walter Payton credo......."ACT LIE YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE".

 

[The Hawk]

And let's not forget about Ron Santo

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=ron+santo+heel+click

Santo was an ass-hole.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I am an old person and I do not misremember anything. And...... very few pitchers yell and pump their fists after big strike-outs. At least the smart ones don't. A Sure there is the excitement of the moment and a player's satisfaction about doing well BUT...........the idea of SHOWING UP THE OTHER GUY is just WRONG. Personal excitement is fine but there is no need to taunt the other guy. That is not sportsmanship. Just as I've said before. I believe in the Walter Payton credo......."ACT LIE YOU'VE BEEN THERE BEFORE".

Here you go confabulating.