Harold Baines Did not deserve to go into the HOF

FirstTimer

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Edgar Martinez became a full time DH in 1995. He retired three years after Baines in 2004.

From 1995-2001 Edgar did the following:
5X All Star
3x Silver Slugger
Lead League in OBP 3x
1x Batting Title
1x Lead League in RBI's
1x Lead league in OPS
1x Led League in Runs
1x Lead League in Doubles
1x Lead League in OPS+
Finished 3rd in the MVP voting in 1995, 6th in 2000.
Slashed: .329/.446/.574 (OPS of 1.020' OPS+ 164)

Edgar Martinez was easily better and more accomplished than Baines when Baines retired.

There is no discussion.

After Baines retired Martinez put up three more seasons of regression numbers. He was meh. He retired then they immediately named the DH award after him. Stop making it seem like Martinez played for another 5 seasons at an elite level to "pass" Baines after Baines retired. He didn't.

Martinez last three years after Baines retired:
.278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger.

These were not good years for Edgar given his past. Ironically, Edgar's regression seasons almost perfectly match the "average" Baines season. (.289/.356/.465 OPS of .820 OPS+ of 121)

So even Edgar's "down seasons" are pretty much better or perfectly on par with Baines average season.

You're, as usual, intellectually bankrupt.


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I love brett's "theory" that three seasons (<400 games) of Edgar doing this .278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger. after Baines retired catapulted Edgar past Baines on all-time DH lists. Edgar's final season(2004) was terrible. He only played 97 games in 2002. His 2003 was really good..but that's pretty much it.
 

FirstTimer

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Edgar Martinez became a full time DH in 1995. He retired three years after Baines in 2004.

From 1995-2001 Edgar did the following:
5X All Star
5x DH of the Year Award
3x Silver Slugger
Lead League in OBP 3x
1x Batting Title
1x Lead League in RBI's
1x Lead league in OPS
1x Led League in Runs
1x Lead League in Doubles
1x Lead League in OPS+
Finished 3rd in the MVP voting in 1995, 6th in 2000.
Slashed: .329/.446/.574 (OPS of 1.020' OPS+ 164)

Edgar Martinez was easily better and more accomplished than Baines when Baines retired.

There is no discussion.

After Baines retired Martinez put up three more seasons of regression numbers. He was meh. He retired then they immediately named the DH award after him. Stop making it seem like Martinez played for another 5 seasons at an elite level to "pass" Baines after Baines retired. He didn't.

Martinez last three years after Baines retired:
.278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger.

These were not good years for Edgar given his past. Ironically, Edgar's regression seasons almost perfectly match the "average" Baines season. (.289/.356/.465 OPS of .820 OPS+ of 121)

So even Edgar's "down seasons" are pretty much better or perfectly on par with Baines average season.

You're, as usual, intellectually bankrupt.


---------------------------------------------------

I love brett's "theory" that three seasons (<400 games) of Edgar doing this .278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger after Baines retired catapulted Edgar past Baines on all-time DH lists. Edgar's final season(2004) was terrible. He only played 97 games in 2002. His 2003 was really good..but that's pretty much it.

....
 
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Gustavus Adolphus

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Edgar Martinez became a full time DH in 1995. He retired three years after Baines in 2004.

From 1995-2001 Edgar did the following:
5X All Star
5x DH of the Year
3x Silver Slugger
Lead League in OBP 3x
1x Batting Title
1x Lead League in RBI's
1x Lead league in OPS
1x Led League in Runs
1x Lead League in Doubles
1x Lead League in OPS+
Finished 3rd in the MVP voting in 1995, 6th in 2000.
Slashed: .329/.446/.574 (OPS of 1.020' OPS+ 164)

Edgar Martinez was easily better and more accomplished than Baines when Baines retired.

There is no discussion.

After Baines retired Martinez put up three more seasons of regression numbers. He was meh. He retired then they immediately named the DH award after him. Stop making it seem like Martinez played for another 5 seasons at an elite level to "pass" Baines after Baines retired. He didn't.

Martinez last three years after Baines retired:
.278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger.

These were not good years for Edgar given his past. Ironically, Edgar's regression seasons almost perfectly match the "average" Baines season. (.289/.356/.465 OPS of .820 OPS+ of 121)

So even Edgar's "down seasons" are pretty much better or perfectly on par with Baines average season.

You're, as usual, intellectually bankrupt.


---------------------------------------------------

I love brett's "theory" that three seasons (<400 games) of Edgar doing this .278/.383/.449 (OPS .832, OPS+ 122) 1 ASG, 1 Silver Slugger after Baines retired catapulted Edgar past Baines on all-time DH lists. Edgar's final season(2004) was terrible. He only played 97 games in 2002. His 2003 was really good..but that's pretty much it.

....
 
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FirstTimer

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To top this all off.

Edgar Martinez won the DH of the Year Award(now the Edgar Martinez Award) from 1995-2001 FIVE TIMES.

Harold Baines won it twice in 22 seasons.

So please tell us more about how Edgar wasn't better by the time Baines retired......
 
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Rory Sparrow

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The most amazing statistic in all of this is:

2007 BBWAA ( 5.3%)
2008 BBWAA ( 5.2%)
2009 BBWAA ( 5.9%)
2010 BBWAA ( 6.1%)
2011 BBWAA ( 4.8%)
2019 Veterans (inducted)
 

FirstTimer

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This election is beyond laughable.

http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/25497076/examining-surprising-hall-calls-harold-baines-lee-smith

Even Baines admitted his reaction when he got the call from the Hall of Fame was, "What?" He had been on the same Today's Game ballot in 2016 and received fewer than five votes (vote totals under five aren't revealed). Apparently, he got a lot better in two years.

In terms of career WAR, Baines lagged well behind some of the other player candidates on this ballot:

Will Clark: 56.5 (four seasons of 4+ WAR)

Orel Hershiser: 51.6 (five seasons of 4+ WAR)

Albert Belle: 40.1 (five seasons of 4+ WAR)

Baines: 38.7 (one season of 4+ WAR)

Smith: 29.4 (one season of 4+ WAR)

Joe Carter: 19.6 (two seasons of 4+ WAR)

Relievers don't pitch enough to compile enough career WAR to compare to position players or starting pitchers, but none of the six players would be described as strong Hall of Fame candidates. After all, that's why none were elected by the BBWAA, which admittedly does have high standards (it's much easier to get 75 percent of the vote from 16 voters on a special committee than 75 percent from 400 voters). Baines' selection, however, is the most shocking Hall of Fame selection in years, even more so than the wacky 2012 Pre-Integration Committee that elected umpire Hank O'Day, Yankees owner Jacob Ruppert and 19th-century catcher Deacon White (in a year in which the BBWAA spun a shutout).

Even Baines admitted his reaction when he got the call from the Hall of Fame was, "What?" He had been on the same Today's Game ballot in 2016 and received fewer than five votes (vote totals under five aren't revealed). Apparently, he got a lot better in two years.
 

FirstTimer

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If it's so laughable... you should add (LOL) at the end of the thread title again.

I hear Czar Nicholas is trained in Krav Maga and may palm strike your nasal bones into ur brane, tho.
It's still there.
 
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