IST: Cubs vs Braves

TL1961

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There are times I watch Russell and think he has a sweet swing and should "break out" at any time. But he doesn't seem to grind ABs. I wish he'd treat them as more valuable and not just go through the motions. He seems to be capable of co much more offensively.
 

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Christopher Kamka
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#Cubs have been 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4, 5-5, 6-6 and are currently (improbably) 7-7.

So they're on pace for 81-81.
 

TL1961

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I realize RBI are not the best gauge, but Javy has 14 in 14 games. That is one area I'd love to see take a big jump this year, and he's off to a good start.

And lost in all the circus atmosphere in that 8th was the Cubs second run. Almora walked, took 2nd on a WP that didn't get terribly far away. He moved to third on a fly to right (down 8 runs, a lot of guys aren't bothering to do so.) He then scored on an infield out. Totally responsible for a run in an inning in which nobody got a hit. That is the kind of ball we need to see more of! I liked that inning as much as the 8th.

It's also why I want to see him at leadoff.
 

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There are times I watch Russell and think he has a sweet swing and should "break out" at any time. But he doesn't seem to grind ABs. I wish he'd treat them as more valuable and not just go through the motions. He seems to be capable of co much more offensively.

Last year kind of fucked up his progress with the injuries. Hopefully he starts to break out and show some offense. He's come through in big moments, but he has a habit of swinging at some really bad pitches.
 

chibears55

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So... think the story of the first 2 weeks is easily the bullpen. Yet another game they picked up the starter in. Butler had a bit of a rough starter but he came in bases loaded if memory serves and only gave up 2 ER. Rest of the bullpen kept them off the board. Really digging the Cishek signing. It's just no nonsense when he's in.
Bullpen has been the bright spot early..
I just hope and feel they will , the rotation picks it up soon so they dont burn the pen out ..

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chibears55

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"So, Braves....how did it go?"

"Well, we had them down to the last strike twice. First time, we hit a guy on 0-2. Second time, we couldn't get strike three past Javy Baez. Then we walked Kyle Schwarber to keep it alive. Heyward batted twice, but we hit him, and walked him. We inexplicably threw to second when a man on third threatened to score, and allowed them both to come home. Some dude named Efren Navarro batted twice, or we'd still be out there."
Hitting and walking Heyward in that inning was the biggest and best thing to happen for them to come back and win that game..

Gave him no chance to ruin that whole inning by allowing him to swing the bat..

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chibears55

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Ha.. here a little stat for you all

Bryant has a .493 OBP
Heyward OPS is .591 now



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Shawon0Meter

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I've seen sooo many Cubs fans claim they were at Wrigley today and stayed until the end. This is the Cubs version of Wilt's 100 point game lol
 

DanTown

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Kris Bryant all of the sudden basically saying he's not going to strike out anymore is still insane. He said he wanted to walk more than he struck out and through 14 games, 10 BB and only 9 K.

69 PA
10 BB
5 HBP
9 K

Insane.
 

CSF77

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Ha.. here a little stat for you all

Bryant has a .493 OBP
Heyward OPS is .591 now



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Going by that logic your starting 8 are Bryant, Baez, Zobrist, Schwarber, Almora, Contreras, LaStella, Cartiani.

I’m pretty sure I could make a solid line up for a game with that.
 

beckdawg

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I was also curious why exactly Heyward's BABIP was so shitty so i looked into it tonight. I'll save you the thesis I was going to write. It effectively comes down to this. He is hitting 1-17 on balls in the infield and 8-20 on balls in the outfield. The 1-17 isn't really that shocking. He maybe should have 1 more hit vs what you'd expect but teams generally are terrible there. And obviously 8-20 on balls to the outfield is fantastic but also what you'd expect. The reason his BABIP is shit is effectively he's hit 4 infield flyballs. His typical career ratio would be roughly 2. Infield flyballs tend to be pitches you just miss and get under. And for what it's worth the difference between a good year for Heyward as a hitter(his .268 BA pre cubs) is ~2.5 hits.

I don't want to super hype up Heyward because we're early here and when you're talking about literally 2-3 outcomes being the difference between him being a terrible hitter and him being what he was at his peak, there's a lot of uncertainty there. But what I will say is this, if he indeed has found a way to tap into more flyballs I'm pretty excited. Last year he had 201 PAs end in the infield and 168 in the outfield or roughly a 54.5/45.5 split and that's roughly the career split he has. This year that's basically reversed thus far at 44.7/55.2. That's a huge deal because MLB hitters last year hit .080/.080/.083 on balls in the infield vs .556/.547/.972 on balls to the outfield and at least thus far we're talking about Heyward having a 10% swing in the direction you want to see. And to expound on that a bit more, the average wRC+ for players with a groundball rate under 42% was 117 among qualified players. If you further narrow that list to players with a groundball rate under 42% and a walk rate 10% or higher the average wRC+ is 127. Heyward's GB rate is 38.5% and his walk rate is 11.1%.

Regardless, I'm not telling people to buy my hype just yet. But I would say keep an open mind because the stats thus far show a different Heyward than we've ever seen. Basically what he's missing right now is a handful of line drives. And I'm not talking about just pulling them out of his ass here. His 2018 line drive rate is 10.3% compared to 19.9% last year. If you were to pull 9-10% from his fly ball rate and put it into line drives you're effectively talking about the 2017 rates Rizzo put up. Even their hard contact is fairly similar(34.2% for Heyward vs 34.4% for Rizzo).

That's why I'm pretty interested in 2018 Heyward right now. Obviously you can move numbers around to make people look better but I truly think Heyward is closer than people realiize to going on a tear. If he finds those missing line drives he could easily get his batting average to .270 which is his career rate. And the difference between his current batting average and his OBP is 102 points. But wait there's more... this increased fly ball rate probably would lead to more HRs/XBH. Speaking conservatively here, if he finds those missing line drives I think you're looking at 2017 Mookie Betts who hit .264/.344/.459 with 24 HRs. I know how crazy that sounds but Heyward legitimately is only missing a couple pieces here statistically.
 

chibears55

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I was also curious why exactly Heyward's BABIP was so shitty so i looked into it tonight. I'll save you the thesis I was going to write. It effectively comes down to this. He is hitting 1-17 on balls in the infield and 8-20 on balls in the outfield. The 1-17 isn't really that shocking. He maybe should have 1 more hit vs what you'd expect but teams generally are terrible there. And obviously 8-20 on balls to the outfield is fantastic but also what you'd expect. The reason his BABIP is shit is effectively he's hit 4 infield flyballs. His typical career ratio would be roughly 2. Infield flyballs tend to be pitches you just miss and get under. And for what it's worth the difference between a good year for Heyward as a hitter(his .268 BA pre cubs) is ~2.5 hits.

I don't want to super hype up Heyward because we're early here and when you're talking about literally 2-3 outcomes being the difference between him being a terrible hitter and him being what he was at his peak, there's a lot of uncertainty there. But what I will say is this, if he indeed has found a way to tap into more flyballs I'm pretty excited. Last year he had 201 PAs end in the infield and 168 in the outfield or roughly a 54.5/45.5 split and that's roughly the career split he has. This year that's basically reversed thus far at 44.7/55.2. That's a huge deal because MLB hitters last year hit .080/.080/.083 on balls in the infield vs .556/.547/.972 on balls to the outfield and at least thus far we're talking about Heyward having a 10% swing in the direction you want to see. And to expound on that a bit more, the average wRC+ for players with a groundball rate under 42% was 117 among qualified players. If you further narrow that list to players with a groundball rate under 42% and a walk rate 10% or higher the average wRC+ is 127. Heyward's GB rate is 38.5% and his walk rate is 11.1%.

Regardless, I'm not telling people to buy my hype just yet. But I would say keep an open mind because the stats thus far show a different Heyward than we've ever seen. Basically what he's missing right now is a handful of line drives. And I'm not talking about just pulling them out of his ass here. His 2018 line drive rate is 10.3% compared to 19.9% last year. If you were to pull 9-10% from his fly ball rate and put it into line drives you're effectively talking about the 2017 rates Rizzo put up. Even their hard contact is fairly similar(34.2% for Heyward vs 34.4% for Rizzo).

That's why I'm pretty interested in 2018 Heyward right now. Obviously you can move numbers around to make people look better but I truly think Heyward is closer than people realiize to going on a tear. If he finds those missing line drives he could easily get his batting average to .270 which is his career rate. And the difference between his current batting average and his OBP is 102 points. But wait there's more... this increased fly ball rate probably would lead to more HRs/XBH. Speaking conservatively here, if he finds those missing line drives I think you're looking at 2017 Mookie Betts who hit .264/.344/.459 with 24 HRs. I know how crazy that sounds but Heyward legitimately is only missing a couple pieces here statistically.
Appreciate the breakdown here and we obviously hope youre right..
But
This is now the 3rd year were waiting for him to figure it out ..
Sure last year his numbers were better but he still sucked to where he only got 400 AB because he sat against LHers , his OBP was .326 , he just doesnt look right up there..

The cubs paid for a guy who the previous 4 years was stealing 20 bases and hitting HRs in teens ..
More importantly his averages were
.269 .254 .271 .293 with OBP in the
.350s. the OBP was one of the main reason they signed him ..
If you recall opening day 2015 lineup, he batted 2nd behind Fowler.. the plan was to have guys with high OBP at top of order, i believe Zobrist hit 3rd that year.

I get having a bad year but this guy is pretty much having his 3rd bad year in a row when you consider what he was doing the previous years..
The advanced stat you show saying IF he just hits a few more balls to the outfield over the infield he might have a better outcome is great and all but we also have to look at this the majority of his balls hit into the outfield are basically popups and easy flyballs that have no chance to drop in safely..

Yes he had some hard hit balls in beginning of year but for the most part he has little power in his swings.
The majority of his hits are grounballs up the middle like the 7 hopper he got the other night, balls he swung late on and falls in in LF, and ones that just falls in front of the outfielders ..

I get what youre showing and hoping for but i and alot others just dont have that confidence in him to in his 3rd year of struggling now, figure it out completely and be what he was before he came here..

That stance he has now in that back corner of box.. dont know where he got that idea from but i can see pitchers start pounding away on that outside part and if he makes contact and rolls over, it going to be soft and more groundballs and popups

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chibears55

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Ha..
Just saw the Reds record..
Their 2 and 12..
Of course one of those wins against the cubs, which was their last win..
Lost 7 in row since

Feel bad for Votto, but it was his choice to extend and stay there

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chibears55

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Game postponed today
Makeup in May

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beckdawg

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Appreciate the breakdown here and we obviously hope youre right..

Like I said I'll i'm saying here is keep an open mind. With regard to him stealing bases tbqh i don't think that's on him. I don't think Madodn wants guys stealing much because no one does it on the cubs and they have quick guys. And as for him being an high on base guy previously, he sort of still is. That's why I brought up his walk rate this year. It's back to where it was. He just hasn't found the average portion yet. If he were the .270 hitter he was previously we'd be talking about a .370 OBP guy right now. That's what I mean about him being closer than people realize.

Regardless, if people want to be skeptical he's "fixed" I get it it. My only point here is to say that 2018 Heyward is different than 2016/17 Heyward. And honestly 2017 Heyward really wasn't different than 2016 Heyward from a statistical standpoint. So, while the thought is "third year why would he change now?", It's really the first year he has legitimately different numbers. I may comment on this a bit more later as I don't fully follow launch angle yet. But suffice to say I think is current issue is he's hitting too many balls with too much launch angle right now. You ideally want to be in the 19-26 degree band. You start to get into the 35+ range and they become lazy fly balls rather than rockets.

Either way, just keep an eye on it. So long as he keeps hitting balls to the outfield I think he's in good shape. Just needs slightly better contact on a few of them.
 

chibears55

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Like I said I'll i'm saying here is keep an open mind. With regard to him stealing bases tbqh i don't think that's on him. I don't think Madodn wants guys stealing much because no one does it on the cubs and they have quick guys. And as for him being an high on base guy previously, he sort of still is. That's why I brought up his walk rate this year. It's back to where it was. He just hasn't found the average portion yet. If he were the .270 hitter he was previously we'd be talking about a .370 OBP guy right now. That's what I mean about him being closer than people realize.

Regardless, if people want to be skeptical he's "fixed" I get it it. My only point here is to say that 2018 Heyward is different than 2016/17 Heyward. And honestly 2017 Heyward really wasn't different than 2016 Heyward from a statistical standpoint. So, while the thought is "third year why would he change now?", It's really the first year he has legitimately different numbers. I may comment on this a bit more later as I don't fully follow launch angle yet. But suffice to say I think is current issue is he's hitting too many balls with too much launch angle right now. You ideally want to be in the 19-26 degree band. You start to get into the 35+ range and they become lazy fly balls rather than rockets.

Either way, just keep an eye on it. So long as he keeps hitting balls to the outfield I think he's in good shape. Just needs slightly better contact on a few of them.

Lol.. i love all your different stats etc..
Now we got launch angles and degree band to look forward too

You keep feeding me positives on him to look forward to, cause ill need it as im only seeing a guy who looks completely lost and just seems to be overmatched by almost every pitcher he faces..

He 9 for 45 now .200 OBP .302

Ill be ecstatic if he gets his average up to .250 over his next 55 AB and OBP over .330

It would be good for him and great for the team to get him going

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beckdawg

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Lol.. i love all your different stats etc..
Now we got launch angles and degree band to look forward too

You keep feeding me positives on him to look forward to, cause ill need it as im only seeing a guy who looks completely lost and just seems to be overmatched by almost every pitcher he faces..

He 9 for 45 now .200 OBP .302

Ill be ecstatic if he gets his average up to .250 over his next 55 AB and OBP over .330

It would be good for him and great for the team to get him going

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Well cases like him are why I love stats. It's not enough for me to just look at a player and say he's terrible. I want to know why. I think it's because I come from a programming background and in effect that's how programming works. You have pieces of a system that fit together and if a few of them aren't working correctly the whole thing doesn't.

I've sort of already outlined the why pretty throughly so I wont go into it again. But it basically comes down to this. 2010-2015 Heyward hit a lot of ground balls hard. 2016-2017 hit even more balls in play due to a higher contact rate and they were still ground balls but the contact was a lot weaker. If you want a elevator pitch of what happened that is it. 2018 Heyward thus far isn't really like 2010-2015 Heyward and he also isn't like 2016-17 Heyward. No matter what improvements he could have made on 2010-2015 version of him they would always be limited by his high ground ball rate. When people talked about finding the missing power he had, effectively that's what needed to change because you can't send a ground ball over the outfield wall for a HR. IDK specifically what changes he made but the 16/17 version of him didn't address that from a statistical stand point and the changes he made killed his hard hit rate which was the one thing making him effective in the years previous. The 2018 version so far hasn't just improved his ground ball rate. His previous best ground ball rate was 43.7% in 2013 with his career rate being 49%. His 2018 rate is 38.5%. So you're not just talking a few % better than his career rate. You're talking 5% better than his best previous rate. And with regard to his hard hit rate, it's the second best in his career behind his rookie year of 2010.

As I've said he's still got gaps in there that need ironing out. The worry here is he wont find the missing line drives. If for example he's still hitting a lot of infield fly balls or lazy fly balls to the outfield in june that's going to be a problem and he's not going to hit for a high average. That's essentially the concern right now. If you want to know what a marginal improvement looks like I'd say that's him taking his current 10.3% line drive rate and getting back say half of what his 18.8% career rate is while keeping the added fly ball rate. If that's what we get, I think you're looking at a .250-.260 hitter with probably a .350 OBP and a .430 SLG based on the current numbers. That slugging may seem high but keep in mind he's hitting the ball basically as hard as he ever has with more fly balls. That's going to lead to more shots into the alley vs singles through the infield which in turn means more doubles.

Where Heyward becomes exiting is if his line drive rates return to his career numbers. I can spell out exactly why if you'd like but the short version here is that if Heyward's ground ball rate remains this low and if his line drive rate returns to his 18.8% career average or what he put up the past two years at 20.5%/19.9%, he becomes a dangerous hitter. We're not talking a "good" hitter. We're talking something approaching 2017 Rizzo. And I'm not even exaggerating here. Their numbers are that similar.

I think you can make the case that any of those 3 things happens. He may never find enough consistency with line drives to matter this year. He might find more consistency than he has now. Or he may have everything fall into place and go on a tear. As I've said I can understand why people are skeptical. But the biggest thing for me is that 2016/17 Heyward based on the ground ball rate he produced only ever could have been the best version of him in Atlanta. That was his peak. The best version of Heyward with this low a ground ball rate is better than that. In fact, you could make the case that the middle outcome where he's marginally better than he is now is still better than the best version prior because in theory his HR total should go up.

But I mean I'm a cubs fan. I'm especially susceptible to people selling me hope after 100 years of waiting...
 

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