IST: Cubs vs. Marlins

beckdawg

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With Darvish lacking a lot of control I sort of like the idea of piggybacking him and either chatwood or Monty depending on who's rested.
 

Parade_Rain

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Darvish stuff is so good. It's weird. 7 K/6 BB. When he gets everything under control, he is going to be very good down the stretch.
 

Diehardfan

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Darvish stuff is so good. It's weird. 7 K/6 BB. When he gets everything under control, he is going to be very good down the stretch.
I hope your right. I'm old enough to remember the Steve Blass thing. Guy was a terrific pitcher for the Pirates, then suddenly couldn't throw a strike to save his life. Being Cub fan, for awhile it was almost funny but when he never recovered it was just sad. To my knowledge, no one ever figured out what went wrong with him. I think he's a Pirates broadcaster now.
 

CSF77

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Well I'll take this as they are ready to play switch with Montgomery going 5 innings on the same day.

I'll make a prediction. Chatwood becomes the closer and Montgomery starts 10+ and Darvish 15-20 by year end.
 

Parade_Rain

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I hope your right. I'm old enough to remember the Steve Blass thing. Guy was a terrific pitcher for the Pirates, then suddenly couldn't throw a strike to save his life. Being Cub fan, for awhile it was almost funny but when he never recovered it was just sad. To my knowledge, no one ever figured out what went wrong with him. I think he's a Pirates broadcaster now.
He is coming back after a significant injury and was out of the game for a long time. With as much stuff as he has, it is going to take a while for him to get the proper feel of each pitch and be able to control it, let alone work mentally through pitch sequences on different batters. Whoever mentioned piggybacking may have the right idea for a while.
 

CSF77

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He is coming back after a significant injury and was out of the game for a long time. With as much stuff as he has, it is going to take a while for him to get the proper feel of each pitch and be able to control it, let alone work mentally through pitch sequences on different batters. Whoever mentioned piggybacking may have the right idea for a while.
He pitched 24 4 seem fastballs. That is the core issue that he is happening. Going over the logs he started with it in the 1st then lost the pitch in the 2nd and had to switch to the 2. But he was having issues with it also so had to go back and forth on 2 Shakey pitches.

Other than that it was cutter/slider/curve.

IDK honestly. IMO he should scrap the 4 for now. Focus on the lower half of the plate with cutters and sinkers down to generate ground balls.

There is nothing wrong with using a high 4 seem on a advantage count to get a guy to chase high later game after seeing a heavy diet of gopher chasers early inning.

I really don't like his approach ATM. He knows that he has a issue going on and he still went there.
 

beckdawg

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He is coming back after a significant injury and was out of the game for a long time. With as much stuff as he has, it is going to take a while for him to get the proper feel of each pitch and be able to control it, let alone work mentally through pitch sequences on different batters. Whoever mentioned piggybacking may have the right idea for a while.
I mainly like the piggy back idea because he doesn't have to concern himself with pitch counts. It's effectively like starting him as an opener. Plus as he(hopefully) starts to regain feel he will be fresh for the stretch run/playoffs. Plus they already have the arms to do it with basically having 7 starters on the roster anyways.
 

Parade_Rain

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He pitched 24 4 seem fastballs. That is the core issue that he is happening. Going over the logs he started with it in the 1st then lost the pitch in the 2nd and had to switch to the 2. But he was having issues with it also so had to go back and forth on 2 Shakey pitches.

Other than that it was cutter/slider/curve.

IDK honestly. IMO he should scrap the 4 for now. Focus on the lower half of the plate with cutters and sinkers down to generate ground balls.

There is nothing wrong with using a high 4 seem on a advantage count to get a guy to chase high later game after seeing a heavy diet of gopher chasers early inning.

I really don't like his approach ATM. He knows that he has a issue going on and he still went there.
Yes. And I think that approach is driven by being out of the game for a while. It will get better, IMHO.
 

anotheridiot

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He pitched 24 4 seem fastballs. That is the core issue that he is happening. Going over the logs he started with it in the 1st then lost the pitch in the 2nd and had to switch to the 2. But he was having issues with it also so had to go back and forth on 2 Shakey pitches.

Other than that it was cutter/slider/curve.

IDK honestly. IMO he should scrap the 4 for now. Focus on the lower half of the plate with cutters and sinkers down to generate ground balls.

There is nothing wrong with using a high 4 seem on a advantage count to get a guy to chase high later game after seeing a heavy diet of gopher chasers early inning.

I really don't like his approach ATM. He knows that he has a issue going on and he still went there.
but I think he throws that 4 seam two or three different ways. The problem seems to be that when you end up with double digit ways you can throw your pitches, you are rarely going to get the feel for anything. He cuts it in, out, up down, those are basically your four pitches most starters have. But then he has the slider, split, sinker and those are also thrown more than one way.

Its just too much to digest when all we want is strike 1 and trust your fielders. Keep the ball down and get some single digit pitch innings. If you try to strike everyone out and waste a pitch each batter, you are throwing 12 per inning
 

CSF77

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but I think he throws that 4 seam two or three different ways. The problem seems to be that when you end up with double digit ways you can throw your pitches, you are rarely going to get the feel for anything. He cuts it in, out, up down, those are basically your four pitches most starters have. But then he has the slider, split, sinker and those are also thrown more than one way.

Its just too much to digest when all we want is strike 1 and trust your fielders. Keep the ball down and get some single digit pitch innings. If you try to strike everyone out and waste a pitch each batter, you are throwing 12 per inning
A 4 seem has a rise to it. A 2 seem doesn't. That is the basics. A 2 seem you can use more or less pressure on either finger to gain movement to either side.

A cutter is a lazy slider. That is basically what it is. A slider you spin a cutter you hold like a slider with out imparting the torque.

But in general with a 4 seem it is best played up in the zone and it stays up there. If the pitcher is releasing closer to the 12 o'clock it plays well off of a knuckle curve or a true hammer that tumbles. If you are coming out at the 2 o'clock it pairs well with a cutter or slider.

Now I've seen guys that try to do too much and for a relief pitcher it is far better to stick with your strongest pitch and use it's natural counter with it. R vs R slider. R vs L change up. But I've also seen R vs R where they use a change with a tail to screwball action it down a D in to induce a pop up.
 
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