IST Cubs @ White Sox

[CSF77]

I agree with your thoughts, I just know that the offer that the Cubs could put together is quite a bit short.

Depends on the arms. Both were over slotted with the discount to Schwarber. Dylan has pushed 98 mph. So the arm is there. He needs to refine his control. But he has TOR stuff. Sands is their best left handed prospect. Again paid over slot to get him to sign. Too early to tell with his potential.

Still with Rondon and Q under control I would be looking into RH SP's more than RH.

As far as bats go. mc and Baez are the best 2 not on the team. I would add Torres but it is still to early on him. Baez slots on the team now. Mc would be in AAA next year.

If they took Those 2 then Dylan for that potential type. At that point they could look at Johnson. I think he is a 3 when it is said and done. When healthy.

 

[CSF77]

was wondering if Sale was worth Torries, McKenney, Edwards and Underwood.

Gleyber Torres Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#34) Top 10 SS Prospects (#8)

Billy McKinney Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#39), Top 10 OF Prospects (#10)

Carl Edwards Jr. Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#64)

Duane Underwood Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#77)

 

[Boobaby1]

What? Sorry Boo, but you are just looking at a name and not a player anymore. Have you watched him play? He is a complete shell of his former self. He is a broken down old ball player that had a fantastic career that is almost over. Switching team doesn't just change a player. He isn't going anywhere that he is not playing almost full time. That means your gonna bench Coughlan and Castro for him? No. Not at all.

He K's less. Ok and Castro isn't a big K guy either. He is at 16.4 percent. That is low in this league. Castro may get traded, but people need to stop acting like he needs to be put out to pasture. He is going to hit again in this league. You don't lose it at 25 with his track record. His issue is he isn't splitting the gaps like he use to. Castro went from a top 5 SS last year to lets get rid of him for a bucket of balls.

Yet again, Castro was worth over 21 million last year according to fangraphs. He is -6.6 million this year. The Cubs are still ahead. I can see Castro getting traded in the off season now. But, I am not trading him for nothing. If thats the case, I would work with him all off season at second base and have him coming into next year as our second baseman or could be third baseman. It depends if his stick comes back and my guess is it will.

If you can see him being traded in the off-season, what's the issue then? Do you think he is going to fetch much in return next year?

Sorry, but some teams have a hard time dishing out a lot of talent for players that are batting this low (average and OBP), two of the last three years and just got moved out of their normal position in favor of a rookie.

His value has dropped so much that the Cubs would have to eat some of his contract now to move him, or put quite a few prospects in a package deal.

And are you saying that Utley is washed up? I think you need to look over his stats again. Two and a half months worth of stats and dealing with injuries is not washed up.

If I had a choice between the two players that I want up at the plate in a crucial moment, I can guarantee you that it wouldn't be Castro for me. But, that is just my opinion.

 

[ijustposthere]

If I had a choice between the two players that I want up at the plate in a crucial moment, I can guarantee you that it wouldn't be Castro for me. But, that is just my opinion.

And yet, he's near the top of the league this year in walk off hits.

 

[Icculus]

Would bet that Sale would relish a trade from that no fan support, bandbox, tax payer park somewhere on the south side. Now go change your undies.

[video=youtube;-9uBvoYLvYE]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-9uBvoYLvYE[/video]

 

[Icculus]

To be honest. Sox need more talent in general to go forward. Selling Sale is a wise move for them. They still have 2 quality starters and there are guys like Leake on the market next year. Little more stable than Shark to split the lefties. Sale should net 2 prime prospects and 2 quality adds. The only guys in the Cubs system that would suffice at this time would be Baez, McKinney, Dylan Cease and Carson Sands in a package.

I have to respectfully disagree. Sale is too good to trade and I don't trust that dipshit Ken Williams since he's pretty much still in charge to receive anything close to the value of a guy that leads the majors in strikeouts and FIP. If anyone here remembers when Cleveland had CC Sabbathia and Cliff Lee, the Indians pretty much gave them both away at the trading deadline and got one prospect in Matt LaPorta that didn't even amount to a replacement level major league player. Also, if the Cubs want him, I start with Scwarber at the minimum. The good starting pitcher the Sox should (and really should have traded at the non-waiver deadline) trade to get impact young bats which is what they need most is Quintana because with Rodon on the major league roster and with Fullmer on the way they're pretty much stocked with quality LH starting pitching.

 

[brett05]

Depends on the arms. Both were over slotted with the discount to Schwarber. Dylan has pushed 98 mph. So the arm is there. He needs to refine his control. But he has TOR stuff. Sands is their best left handed prospect. Again paid over slot to get him to sign. Too early to tell with his potential.

Still with Rondon and Q under control I would be looking into RH SP's more than RH.

As far as bats go. mc and Baez are the best 2 not on the team. I would add Torres but it is still to early on him. Baez slots on the team now. Mc would be in AAA next year.

If they took Those 2 then Dylan for that potential type. At that point they could look at Johnson. I think he is a 3 when it is said and done. When healthy.

Maybe im wrong but if you have 1 or 2 TOR guy in your system, why would you trade them for an older and higher cost one?

So, i dont think anyone giving up a TOR kid or two for him..


I personally dont think the sox would even answer the phone if the cubs called for Sales.. no way they give him up to their cross town rival. .
But for sake of what would it take from cubs..

If the Sox want a true young team, the cubs could offer up a few decent kids. . Ill just list who the sox could be interested in to choose from..

Pitchers

Edwards, Johnson, Underwood, Sands, Black, Riveto, Stinnett, Mejia, Hendricks, Tseng, jokisch, Rosscup, Strop, Wood

Position players

Castro, Alcantara, Zagunis, Caratini, Vogelbach, Almora, McKinney , Olt, Villanueva, Szczur

im sure 4 or 5 of these guys would interest the sox for Sales if they were looking to start over

You cannot compare a cheap, arguably top three pitchers in all of baseball and will remain so for another five years to what the Cubs can offer in pitching. It's just not there.

 

[brett05]

was wondering if Sale was worth Torries, McKenney, Edwards and Underwood.

Gleyber Torres Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#34) Top 10 SS Prospects (#8)

Billy McKinney Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#39), Top 10 OF Prospects (#10)

Carl Edwards Jr. Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#64)

Duane Underwood Other Lists: Top 100 Prospects (#77)

He's worth all that and more. Just because guys are in the top 100 specs does not necessarily mean they are good specs. I mean someone has to be on the top 100 list.

 

[chibears55]

He's worth all that and more. Just because guys are in the top 100 specs does not necessarily mean they are good specs. I mean someone has to be on the top 100 list.

I just saw that Sales under contract for 4 more years at a very cheap cost 13.5 mil the last 2 years..

The sox would be insane to trade him now...

This conversation at least for me is on hold til 2018, that when the sox should start looking around for buyers cause Sales being just 30 after 2019 season will be looking for a 6 or 7 yr deal at 35 + by then if he continues to pitch like he is now..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

 

[CSF77]

I have to agree. If the Cubs have to include Schwarber then they are better off doing 1 year rentals until their pitching develops

 

[Diehardfan]

I just saw that Sales under contract for 4 more years at a very cheap cost 13.5 mil the last 2 years..

The sox would be insane to trade him now...

This conversation at least for me is on hold til 2018, that when the sox should start looking around for buyers cause Sales being just 30 after 2019 season will be looking for a 6 or 7 yr deal at 35 + by then if he continues to pitch like he is now..

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

Yes they would and they won't. Splitting time in Chicago with the Cubs gives the White Sox a completely different dynamic than most other ML clubs. I don't think they can afford to blow it up and rebuild like the Cubs did. I mean they really don't draw well even when in contention....what would they draw throwing a couple of 90 plus loss teams out there? I think they are pretty much forced into rebuilding on the fly and will have to continue doing it under present ownership.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

You cannot compare a cheap, arguably top three pitchers in all of baseball and will remain so for another five years to what the Cubs can offer in pitching. It's just not there.

No you can't, and it's not just the Cubs it would be awfully tough for any team to put together a package for Sale that would even start to make sense for teh White Sox. Any deal would have to start with a young star position player who has already made the bigs like a Schwarber, Joc Pederson, Carlos Correa or the like to make up for the 6 WAR Sale gives you in a good year and nobody is giving a guy like that up for pitching, even a guy as great and is as ridiculously below market as Sale is.

 

[brett05]

Yes they would and they won't. Splitting time in Chicago with the Cubs gives the White Sox a completely different dynamic than most other ML clubs. I don't think they can afford to blow it up and rebuild like the Cubs did. I mean they really don't draw well even when in contention....what would they draw throwing a couple of 90 plus loss teams out there? I think they are pretty much forced into rebuilding on the fly and will have to continue doing it under present ownership.

They draw pretty much the same. Sox fans usually do not come out for non big time series unless the team is well into summer and leading. Their dollar just doesn't stretch as far.

 

[Boobaby1]

And yet, he's near the top of the league this year in walk off hits.

Well, I saw two of them and it was with a drawn in infield. Not that that matters much.

That said, pitchers will have to really pitch to a player that has a good eye at the plate and takes walks. Castro doesn't and his aggressiveness will work against him.

I feel that Chase Utley, even today is the much tougher out at the plate.

 

[chibears55]

Well, I saw two of them and it was with a drawn in infield. Not that that matters much.

That said, pitchers will have to really pitch to a player that has a good eye at the plate and takes walks. Castro doesn't and his aggressiveness will work against him.

I feel that Chase Utley, even today is the much tougher out at the plate.

Put your hope for Chase Utley to sleep..
Phils just said their most likely not trading him now..

My guess nobody willing to give them much in return. .

 

[SilenceS]

Shiny new toys. That's all it is with people.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SilenceS]

If you can see him being traded in the off-season, what's the issue then? Do you think he is going to fetch much in return next year?

Sorry, but some teams have a hard time dishing out a lot of talent for players that are batting this low (average and OBP), two of the last three years and just got moved out of their normal position in favor of a rookie.

His value has dropped so much that the Cubs would have to eat some of his contract now to move him, or put quite a few prospects in a package deal.

And are you saying that Utley is washed up? I think you need to look over his stats again. Two and a half months worth of stats and dealing with injuries is not washed up.

If I had a choice between the two players that I want up at the plate in a crucial moment, I can guarantee you that it wouldn't be Castro for me. But, that is just my opinion.

The Cubs eat salary and just give Castro away. Some team is going to turn out with a steal. Quote me on that


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TC in Mississippi]

They draw pretty much the same. Sox fans usually do not come out for non big time series unless the team is well into summer and leading. Their dollar just doesn't stretch as far.

I'm not sure what you're getting at here. You say they draw pretty much the same but then admit that Sox fans don't come out for non big time series because of the income disparity. I agree on the income disparity to a degree but there a ton of reasons the Sox don't draw as well as the Cubs. This year the Cubs average attendance per game is 35,831 while the Sox are at 23,876. Now the Cubs are winning and the White Sox aren't but neither team had been very good the last few years so let's look at those:

2014- Cubs 73 Wins, 32,742 Sox 73 Wins, 20,896
2013- Cubs 66 Wins, 32,625 Sox 63 Wins, 22,105
2012- Cubs 61 Wins, 35,589 Sox 85 Wins, 24,271
2011- Cubs 71 Wins 37,259 Sox 79 Wins, 24,705
2010- Cubs 75 Wins, 37,814 Sox 88 Wins, 27,091

What this shows to me is that the Sox had to win 88 games to draw a 27,000 average where as the Cubs only got into the 32,000 range the second year after they were basically losing on purpose. I think the point that was made was that the White Sox, under current ownership, could not support a full rebuild and the numbers would seem to bear that out.

 

[SilenceS]

You cannot compare a cheap, arguably top three pitchers in all of baseball and will remain so for another five years to what the Cubs can offer in pitching. It's just not there.

He isn't top 3 this year and you have no idea what he will be in 5 years. lol I suggest looking at the aces from 3 years ago and see how many are still aces.

Sale is a freak but he only ranks top 10 in FIP, k/9, and k's. His body type also doesn't suggest him being a work horse for the next 10 years.

He is worth a lot, but you shooting a little out of range.

 

[SilenceS]

Put your hope for Chase Utley to sleep..
Phils just said their most likely not trading him now..

My guess nobody willing to give them much in return. .

We were never really a favorite. We were curious. He wants to play full time and I don't think the Cubs saw that as a possibility.