James and Irving...trouble in paradise

[ursamajor]

Because it feeds into this. I don't understand how you call two NBA stars losers because they played on losing teams and couldn't lead their teams to the playoffs, yet won't call a non-star QB on the Bears a loser despite failing to lead his losing team to the playoffs year in and year out minus the one year that they did, yet still lost to their arch rivals, and he helped allow the arch rivals into the playoffs in the first place.

I repeat, I don't understand how you think one guy can suddenly become a winner, while two NBA stars cannot.

In the NBA superstars rise like cream. A single super star in Basketball can carry his team to the playoffs. More so than any other team sport-outside of a lockdown goalie in Hockey.

Besides, Love had Rubio, and Kyrie had a fellow #1 overall. But when you see the records, and hear about the lack of discipline in practice, the late night partying on game night, and self aggrandizing performances in games, disregarding by our team mates, or the game plan...to the point where LeBron actually comments on it publicly (he has never been one to air dirty laundry)...well something is wrong at the core.

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[FirstTimer]

That's an interesting point. When you think about it, the Bulls in their glory years never had a great point guard either. Pip was essentially a point forward in the triangle. Was that because of Jackson's triangle approach? I don't know why a truly good point guard couldn't co-exist with Lebron who I agree does controlthe ball a lot. It is workable I would think. No one demanded the ball more than Jordan and Pippen was a perfect partner with him. I think that the problem is not the offense that they run but rather than Irving himself and whether he can co-exist with Lebron.

No it's not. Wade lead the NBA in USG% the previous two seasons before James showed up. James has already joined a team that had a high volume ball handler and after they adjusted they went to 4 straight NBA Finals and won back to back championships.

Was this entire board neuralized by Men In Black and forget recent NBA history?

2010-2014? See ya!

 

[FirstTimer]

In the NBA superstars rise like cream. A single super star in Basketball can carry his team to the playoffs. More so than any other team sport-outside of a lockdown goalie in Hockey.

Besides, Love had Rubio, and Kyrie had a fellow #1 overall(Anthony Bennett). But when you see the records, and hear about the lack of discipline in practice, the late night partying on game night, and self aggrandizing performances in games, disregarding by our team mates, or the game plan...to the point where LeBron actually comments on it publicly (he has never been one to air dirty laundry)...well something is wrong at the core.

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EL OH EL.

 

[ursamajor]

So, for clarification reasons, you're butthurt Love and Irving haven't led their teams to the playoffs yet?

Not butt hurt. But I am not about to start slobbing the Cavs' may pole because there are 3 All Stars on that team. Especially when 2 of them think that NBA greatness is about losing pretty.

 

[Axl Rose]

https://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9c4fvSPeC1qakh43o1_r2_500.gif

https://38.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9c4fvSPeC1qakh43o3_r1_500.gif

you motherfuckers will be posting from PELICAN BAY when I get finished with you

 

[Scoot26]

Not butt hurt. But I am not about to start slobbing the Cavs' may pole because there are 3 All Stars on that team. Especially when 2 of them think that NBA greatness is about losing pretty.

No one said you had to. I wouldn't say I'm slobbering on their pole, but I am cautious about them becoming quite a good team.

 

[Axl Rose]

maybe Kyrie doesn't quite understand how to win but hes only 22 and has been on the mess that is Cavs were he had no guidance....i think Kyrie will come along and "get it"

the only person i think wont eventually get it is Dion Waiters...hes been pretty vocal about his unhappiness on what the team is asking him to do....the guy is a headcase

 

[Scoot26]

maybe Kyrie doesn't quite understand how to win but hes only 22 and has been on the mess that is Cavs were he had no guidance

i think Kyrie will come along and "get it"

i

BUT DERRICK ROSE WAS A WINNER AT 22!!!!!


The Cavs can, and probably will turn it around. When they do, they are the most dangerous team.


One thing Bulls fans here are completely ignoring is how bad this team is this year so far at allowing offensive rebounds. For those who want to blame Noah being out, they still couldn't get them when he was in (yes I know he's slowly returning to form from knee surgery) But... That WILLL murder you in the playoffs. Granted we're at 5 games and we have plenty of time to figure that out, but it is a concern so far.

 

[ursamajor]

BUT DERRICK ROSE WAS A WINNER AT 22!!!!!


The Cavs can, and probably will turn it around. When they do, they are the most dangerous team.


One thing Bulls fans here are completely ignoring is how bad this team is this year so far at allowing offensive rebounds. For those who want to blame Noah being out, they still couldn't get them when he was in (yes I know he's slowly returning to form from knee surgery) But... That WILLL murder you in the playoffs. Granted we're at 5 games and we have plenty of time to figure that out, but it is a concern so far.

It has been an area of note. But it is getting better, and history has shown that it will get better. Much more favorable history, as well as current trends, to be optimistic there, than there is to be optimistic that the 2 zebras in Cleveland will change their stripes.

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[Axl Rose]

BUT DERRICK ROSE WAS A WINNER AT 22!!!!!.

well that Roses personally from the start

and to be fair he came to a ready made playoff team his first year

 

[ursamajor]

well that Roses personally from the start

and to be fair he came to a ready made playoff team

Weren't they the Bulls in the Lottery when they got Rose. Or did they win the lottery by not being in it.

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[Scoot26]

well that Roses personally from the start

and to be fair he came to a ready made playoff team

Yes, I'm well aware. I was just being facetious.

 

[Scoot26]

Weren't they the Bulls in the Lottery when they got Rose. Or did they win the lottery by not being in it.

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The Bulls were a playoff team in 06-07..They had a one year hiccup that allowed them to win the lottery and then be back in the playoffs.

 

[Axl Rose]

Weren't they the Bulls in the Lottery when they got Rose. Or did they win the lottery by not being in it.

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they were lotto but they had the talent to be a playoff team

they were one year removed from 50 wins and a first round sweep of the heat

 

[ursamajor]

they were lotto but they had the talent to be a playoff team...they were one year removed from a great season

But they were not a playoff team. Balls only go to the 14 teams that miss the playoffs.

Rose came to a team that was 33-49. That is not a "ready made playoff team"

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[Axl Rose]

But they were not a playoff team. Balls only go to the 14 teams that miss the playoffs.

Rose came to a team that was 33-49. That is not a "ready made playoff team"

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they made the playoffs the 3 years prior to that season...they had the talent to make the playoffs

anyway like i said Rose came in with the personalty of a winner and that was one of the special things about him

Kyrie still learning how to have that mindset

 

[clonetrooper264]

But they were not a playoff team. Balls only go to the 14 teams that miss the playoffs.

Rose came to a team that was 33-49. That is not a "ready made playoff team"

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That same team the year before were projected to be locks for the ECF. They sort of imploded and dumped guys to free up cap space once they realized the season was not going to turn out as they had hoped. Ended up literally winning the lottery.

The cores of the two teams was the same though (Hinrich, Gordon, Deng, Nocioni, Noah, and Thomas) so you could make the case that they were a playoff team. Once they pulled off the Brad Miller/John Salmons trade though, that's where things really turned around for the Bulls in 2008.

 

[Axl Rose]

the team had more talent then those Cavs teams had period

how do you criticize a guy for not making the playoffs with Anthony Bennett? who right off looked like a bust and ended up only playing 12 minutes per game? lol

hes right the Cavs were toxic but lets not put all the blame on Kyrie and act like hes a lost cause

 

[ChettheJet]

You can put all the name players you want together, making them into a team can take time or depending on the players can never work. Irving has had a lot of praise heaped on him and may or may not be willing to do less and win.

 

[NCChiFan]

No it's not. Wade lead the NBA in USG% the previous two seasons before James showed up.

Wade has never been confused with a point guard. While he may have dominated play, he never really played as a point guard in college or even in the pro's. Neither did Michael Jordan or Scottie Pippen yet plays ran through them for sure. You would never confuse any of them for a Westbrook or a Paul or Teague or Colllison. or an Irving. Guys who's entire existence on the b. ball court is defined with a ball in their hands. It will, in my opinion be harder for Irving to make the transition to either a point guard who chooses to assist or a spot up shooter, than it was for Wade to transition out of the ball like he did in Miami.

Edit: The example I would use to explain Irving at the moment... He playing like a mini Allen Iverson.