John Paxson Tenure Review

[scottiepippen1994]

 

[Crystallas]

 

[scottiepippen1994]

 

[RC_Skinny22]

I´m usually a little scared of posts that long, but this one deserved to be read!

Well done, it was a very good one!



The only things Pax did wrong was trading Aldridge for Thomas and trading away Chandler to get Wallace.

PG: Kirk Hinrich, Chris Duhon
SG: Ben Gordon, Thabo Sefolosha
SF: Luol Deng, Adrian Griffin
PF: Lamarcus Aldridge, Andres Nocioni
C: Tyson Chandler, Mike Sweetney

That could have been a very good team to go on.

But since we lucked out with DRose I can´t be too frustraded about how things turned out!


In the last couple of years I really like the idendity of the team he built around Derrick.

Rose, Hinrich, Butler, Deng, Gibson, & Noah fit perfectly to Thibs.


For the years to come I´m really excited. We don´t need that much to put ourselves in a good position against the Heat.

I wonder how Butler will do offensively next season. He averaged what, 13-17 ppg when he started last season? By the numbers that would be enough from the SG spot if Deng continues to score similar numbers as well. But Jimmy has to put major work in shot creating this summer!

Also Mitoric seems to be a promising future at the PF spot.

Rose, Hinrich
Butler
Deng
Gibson, Mirotic
Noah

That either leaves 3 backup spots which should be filled with scorers. We already have the defense we need and I´m proud of that! Or you get a really good SG and move Butler backup SG & SF again. Problem is I don´t see a good SG available soon, besides Eric Gordon who is both too expensive and injury prone!

But either way I´m confident we´ll go our way and move in the right direction.


On a sidenote: Welcome to the board. Good to see another person with effort and soul writing about our beloved Bulls!

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Good post

Like the trolling with quoting the whole post!

 

[Axl Rose]

lol @ sparrow

 

[Sunbiz1]

I'll bet not one person here read that entire opening dissertation, which although good is in dire need of consolidation.

 

[Beyer Fan]

I'll bet not one person here read that entire opening dissertation, which although good is in dire need of consolidation.

I used my evelyn wood speed reading. Still took 5 minutes

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Good post

Thanks for rebumping the longest post in history.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Sorry to knitpick peoples opinions.
but I think if Pax would of kept Chandler and Curry, it would of been better the the Ben Wallce waste of time.
Curry actually had his best season in the 2005 season.
When Pax dumped him in New York, I think Eddie went through some sort of depression and basically died as an NBA player.

And Chandler certainly could of been traded for more than just P.J Brown and a player that was never used(Eisley)....

And getting rid of Ben Gordon was Paxsons biggest mistake.
We still havnt been able to replace him yet.
Bogans, Pargo, Korver have been a waste of time........

Y'all may disagree, but that's my opinion and its my constitutional right to feel that way.
Just saying.

And as far as dumb idiots who praise Pax for drafting Rose, I don't give Pax any credit for that because Rose was basically handed to the Bulls from God himself.

Also, I think Pax was too soft on Rose the last 2 months of last season.
Paxson should of physically pushed Derrick onto the court like a parent pushes a scared kid off of a diving board to learn to swim.

Pax had no problem physically bullting and pushing Vinnie Del Negro like he was his son.
:shrug:

 

[Scoot26]

Sorry to knitpick peoples opinions.
but I think if Pax would of kept Chandler and Curry, it would of been better the the Ben Wallce waste of time.
Curry actually had his best season in the 2005 season.
When Pax dumped him in New York, I think Eddie went through some sort of depression and basically died as an NBA player.

Eddy Curry had a productive year in 2006-2007 I believe. (Or was it his first year in NY). Curry truly went to shit when he was robbed. What the Bulls got for Curry was a robbery. Joakim Noah is far better than Eddy Curry ever was. Curry was pretty damn useless after the first quarter. He was tired, didnt rebound, and was definitely dead by the end of games.

And Chandler certainly could of been traded for more than just P.J Brown and a player that was never used(Eisley)....

Chandler had his worst season ever in 2005-2006. He wasn't valuable at all. Thats why the Bulls went after Wallace, so they could dump Chandler.

And getting rid of Ben Gordon was Paxsons biggest mistake.

No. Just no.

We still havnt been able to replace him yet.
Bogans, Pargo, Korver have been a waste of time........

Pargo was Gordon's replacement at one time? LOL What?

And as far as dumb idiots who praise Pax for drafting Rose, I don't give Pax any credit for that because Rose was basically handed to the Bulls from Stern himself.

Fixed.

Also, I think Pax was too soft on Rose the last 2 months of last season.
Paxson should of physically pushed Derrick onto the court like a parent pushes a scared kid off of a diving board to learn to swim.

Pax had no problem physically bullting and pushing Vinnie Del Negro like he was his son.
:shrug:

Paxson had no say in the Rose returning process did. It was between Rose and Reinsdorf.

 

[Beyer Fan]

Eddy Curry had a productive year in 2006-2007 I believe. (Or was it his first year in NY). Curry truly went to shit when he was robbed. What the Bulls got for Curry was a robbery. Joakim Noah is far better than Eddy Curry ever was. Curry was pretty damn useless after the first quarter. He was tired, didnt rebound, and was definitely dead by the end of games.

I don't know why people under appreciate Noah. His stats are good and the intangibles are off the charts. Sort of Dennis Rodman without the tats and rainbow hair, but with a grandma bun.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I never said I don't appreiciate Noah, LoL.
He's my favorite player on the Bulls, duuuuhhhhhh......

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Eddy Curry had a productive year in 2006-2007 I believe. (Or was it his first year in NY). Curry truly went to shit when he was robbed. What the Bulls got for Curry was a robbery. Joakim Noah is far better than Eddy Curry ever was. Curry was pretty damn useless after the first quarter. He was tired, didnt rebound, and was definitely dead by the end of games.



Chandler had his worst season ever in 2005-2006. He wasn't valuable at all. Thats why the Bulls went after Wallace, so they could dump Chandler.



No. Just no.



Pargo was Gordon's replacement at one time? LOL What?




Fixed.



Paxson had no say in the Rose returning process did. It was between Rose and Reinsdorf.

Bullshit

 

[The Ball Dont Lie]

The Ball Don't Lie...a few questions/comments for you...interested in your thoughts...

*How much do you think Paxson was hurt by the Jay Williams injury? I didn't think he was all that great of an NBA prospect, and I thought at best he might be a solid starter but never a superstar player.

*Do you think Paxson stuck with Curry too long? I thought he was a terrible pick at the time. He was a lazy POS in high school who happened to be tall enough to dominate. He had offensive skills, but wasn't really an athlete and didn't try on defense.

*How much did Krause's idiotic signings (Eddie Robinson?) affect Paxson's first few years?

*I've always thought that one of the biggest mistakes of the Paxson era was not trading up for Dwayne Wade. I thought at the time he was going to be a superstar. The draft was so deep that year that Wade would stil be available at #5, so the Bulls only needed to trade up two spots to get him. Hinrich was never on the same level as Wade...he would never be anything more than a solid player. Hindsight is 20/20, but is it reasonable to blame Paxson for not getting Wade?

*Do you think the Ben Gordon pick set the franchise back?

*I never understood what type of player Paxson was looking for. He would get rid of guys like Jamal Crawford for being too unpolished/undisciplined, then he'd draft guys like Tyrus Thomas. He'd bring in a coach like Skiles, then sign a bunch of divas like Ben Wallace. Did you find some of his signings to be completely random, or am I reading too much into this?

*If the Bulls didn't luck into the Derrick Rose pick and/or Rose didn't have immediate success and/or the Bulls drafted Michael Beasley, do you think Paxson would have been fired?

Great questions Sparrow. I will answer each of them as best I can.

How much do you think the Jay Williams injury effected Paxson?

First my thoughts on Jay Williams the basketball player. I agree with you. I don't think Williams would have been a superstar type player. However I did think Williams had the potential to be a NBA all star. I thought Williams had a strong NBA body. He was able to drive and absorb contact really well. Which allowed him to finish at the rim better than most point guards. He struggled shooting the ball but from what I remember he had good form. His shooting mechanics were good. He had nice touch with his shot, the ball just didn't go in. I thought he was a better point guard than his assist per game will tell you. I felt like his teammates missed a lot of shots Williams was able to set up for them. I think overall Williams had the potential to be an all-star. I thought he could have been a similar player to Chauncey Bullips. Bullips a better shooter, but Williams a better point guard.

As far as how far did it set the franchise back?

I mean anytime you lose a starter for nothing it hurts the team. The Bulls didn't have cap room to replace William's production/potential in free agency. They basically took a step backwards. And I do believe Williams would have been a MUCH better player than Kirk Hinrich.

Do I think Paxson stuck with Eddy Curry too long?

No I don't. But I agree with your assessment of Curry in high school. The guy was not an athlete. He just happened to be bigger than everyone in high school so he dominated them. I agree with that 100%. I do believe that is why Curry struggled in the NBA right away. He wasn't used to the size and athleticism NBA front court players possessed. But Curry was talented offensively. He had post game, he wasn't all size. His footwork was solid, he had touch around the rim. It is no surprise to me Curry once averaged 19 points per game one year. The guy could really score. I thought the Bulls handled Curry the right way, and in the end obtained a 2nd overall pick and 9th overall pick in two separate drafts for him. And only gave up what ended up being a 21st overall pick.

Now regarding the Wade thing?

From everything I remember and read the Bulls did go after Dwayne Wade. They wanted him really bad. But so did Miami. And the Bulls couldn't make Miami trade away the 5th pick. Miami had their eyes set on Wade also and fact is they picked before us. I don't blame Paxson for not getting Wade. There was nothing he could really do.

As far as Eddie Robinson..

I don't think it set the franchise back that much if at all. Only thing it did was take away cap room from 2003. And really unlikely the Bulls get anyone of significance that year anyway. Other than that it was just a stupid signing by Krause. And it cost the owner some money.

Do I think Ben Gordon set the franchise back?

No, I mean how did he? Gordon had great years in Chicago. He was one of the best scorers in the NBA when he played for the Bulls. Gordon just wanted too much money. Ben went and got his money and he just wasn't the same since. And he has battled injuries since then also, but mainly I just think Gordon was happy to get paid.

As far as Tyrus..

I think if he could, Paxson would come out and say he made a dumb mistake with not keeping LaMarcus Aldredge. And that he was way off on Tyrus's NBA potential. He made a mistake, no doubt about it.

As far as Rose...

If Paxson drafted Beasley I do believe he would have been eventually fired. But Paxson didn't. He made the right choice, when many believed Beasley was the right choice.
Yes the Bulls got lucky with the draft lottery that year, and who knows where this team would be without it. But all I know is, the Bulls got lucky and made the right choice with it.

 

[scottiepippen1994]

Great questions Sparrow. I will answer each of them as best I can.

How much do you think the Jay Williams injury effected Paxson?

First my thoughts on Jay Williams the basketball player. I agree with you. I don't think Williams would have been a superstar type player. However I did think Williams had the potential to be a NBA all star. I thought Williams had a strong NBA body. He was able to drive and absorb contact really well. Which allowed him to finish at the rim better than most point guards. He struggled shooting the ball but from what I remember he had good form. His shooting mechanics were good. He had nice touch with his shot, the ball just didn't go in. I thought he was a better point guard than his assist per game will tell you. I felt like his teammates missed a lot of shots Williams was able to set up for them. I think overall Williams had the potential to be an all-star. I thought he could have been a similar player to Chauncey Bullips. Bullips a better shooter, but Williams a better point guard.

As far as how far did it set the franchise back?

I mean anytime you lose a starter for nothing it hurts the team. The Bulls didn't have cap room to replace William's production/potential in free agency. They basically took a step backwards. And I do believe Williams would have been a MUCH better player than Kirk Hinrich.

Do I think Paxson stuck with Eddy Curry too long?

No I don't. But I agree with your assessment of Curry in high school. The guy was not an athlete. He just happened to be bigger than everyone in high school so he dominated them. I agree with that 100%. I do believe that is why Curry struggled in the NBA right away. He wasn't used to the size and athleticism NBA front court players possessed. But Curry was talented offensively. He had post game, he wasn't all size. His footwork was solid, he had touch around the rim. It is no surprise to me Curry once averaged 19 points per game one year. The guy could really score. I thought the Bulls handled Curry the right way, and in the end obtained a 2nd overall pick and 9th overall pick in two separate drafts for him. And only gave up what ended up being a 21st overall pick.

Now regarding the Wade thing?

From everything I remember and read the Bulls did go after Dwayne Wade. They wanted him really bad. But so did Miami. And the Bulls couldn't make Miami trade away the 5th pick. Miami had their eyes set on Wade also and fact is they picked before us. I don't blame Paxson for not getting Wade. There was nothing he could really do.

As far as Eddie Robinson..

I don't think it set the franchise back that much if at all. Only thing it did was take away cap room from 2003. And really unlikely the Bulls get anyone of significance that year anyway. Other than that it was just a stupid signing by Krause. And it cost the owner some money.

Do I think Ben Gordon set the franchise back?

No, I mean how did he? Gordon had great years in Chicago. He was one of the best scorers in the NBA when he played for the Bulls. Gordon just wanted too much money. Ben went and got his money and he just wasn't the same since. And he has battled injuries since then also, but mainly I just think Gordon was happy to get paid.

As far as Tyrus..

I think if he could, Paxson would come out and say he made a dumb mistake with not keeping LaMarcus Aldredge. And that he was way off on Tyrus's NBA potential. He made a mistake, no doubt about it.

As far as Rose...

If Paxson drafted Beasley I do believe he would have been eventually fired. But Paxson didn't. He made the right choice, when many believed Beasley was the right choice.
Yes the Bulls got lucky with the draft lottery that year, and who knows where this team would be without it. But all I know is, the Bulls got lucky and made the right choice with it.

Dude, your fucking awsome.

P.s, did you used to post on espn 2 to 4 years ago when I was a member there?
Lol.
I'm the one that was banned every week.

 

[The Ball Dont Lie]

Dude, your fucking awsome.

P.s, did you used to post on espn 2 to 4 years ago when I was a member there?
Lol.
I'm the one that was banned every week.

I did not.

 

[czman]

Do I think Paxson stuck with Eddy Curry too long?

No I don't. But I agree with your assessment of Curry in high school. The guy was not an athlete. He just happened to be bigger than everyone in high school so he dominated them. I agree with that 100%. I do believe that is why Curry struggled in the NBA right away. He wasn't used to the size and athleticism NBA front court players possessed. But Curry was talented offensively. He had post game, he wasn't all size. His footwork was solid, he had touch around the rim. It is no surprise to me Curry once averaged 19 points per game one year. The guy could really score. I thought the Bulls handled Curry the right way, and in the end obtained a 2nd overall pick and 9th overall pick in two separate drafts for him. And only gave up what ended up being a 21st overall pick.

The Bulls picked up 2 1st round picks and 2 2nd rounder for Curry who never did anything after he left. I would say the Bulls sold at the highest point. The Aldridge pick was from this trade and so was the Noah pick. I think they did the best they possibly could have with Curry.

As far as Eddie Robinson..

I don't think it set the franchise back that much if at all. Only thing it did was take away cap room from 2003. And really unlikely the Bulls get anyone of significance that year anyway. Other than that it was just a stupid signing by Krause. And it cost the owner some money.

This move was more an overreaction to the current climate in the NBA. The early 2000s saw the thin, long, athletic play start to come to prominence and everyone wanted one of these guys. The Bulls overpaid for one of them, but so did a lot of teams.

Do I think Ben Gordon set the franchise back?

No, I mean how did he? Gordon had great years in Chicago. He was one of the best scorers in the NBA when he played for the Bulls. Gordon just wanted too much money. Ben went and got his money and he just wasn't the same since. And he has battled injuries since then also, but mainly I just think Gordon was happy to get paid.

Gordon jumped ship because he thought he was a star and he wanted to get paid. I don't think Gordon would have fit with Tibs at all if he even made it thought the Lebron sweepstakes. the Bulls gave Hinrich away so they could try and get Lebron to come to the Bulls. Gordon probably would have been moved to for cap reasons. In reality that is probably why they did not keep him. You can almost say that not matching his contract allowed the Bulls to get Watson/Brewer/Korver. I think that was a win for the Bulls.

As far as Tyrus..

I think if he could, Paxson would come out and say he made a dumb mistake with not keeping LaMarcus Aldredge. And that he was way off on Tyrus's NBA potential. He made a mistake, no doubt about it.

That was a horrible move. It did allow the Bulls to be bad enought to get Rose. I am not sure the Bulls miss the playoffs if you swap out Thomas for Aldredge. The other thing to remember is that Shawn Marion had just had a monster year. Many people were comparing Thomas to Marion. I think that move was directly related to the success of Marion and comparisons between the two.

 

[The Ball Dont Lie]

That was a horrible move. It did allow the Bulls to be bad enought to get Rose. I am not sure the Bulls miss the playoffs if you swap out Thomas for Aldredge. The other thing to remember is that Shawn Marion had just had a monster year. Many people were comparing Thomas to Marion. I think that move was directly related to the success of Marion and comparisons between the two.

Nice comparison. That was definitely around the time Marion was thriving in Phoenix. And that actually is a great comparison, at least in the sense that is the type of player the Bulls hoped Tyrus would develop into.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Nice comparison. That was definitely around the time Marion was thriving in Phoenix. And that actually is a great comparison, at least in the sense that is the type of player the Bulls hoped Tyrus would develop into.

Except Tyrus couldn't really shoot. Marion at least had some sort of jumper (as awkward as it is) coming into the league. In Phoenix he was draining 3s off of Steve Nash kick outs...don't see how anyone thought Tyrus could be capable of that. Marion-esque defensively I can see though.