Jordan Howard/Nagy vs. Urlacher/Trestman

Rory Sparrow

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Lots of nonsense being bandied about on CCS regarding Pace's trade of Jordan Howard. A foolish few even insist that Pace should have traded Howard PRIOR to the 2018 season!

To me, its interesting how Howard's situation paralleled with Urlacher's final days in Chicago. Let's say, hypothetically, that Nagy could see the future and knew that Howard wouldn't work in his offense. Would there have been any reason to still keep Howard around for the 2018 season?

Let's look at Urlacher's situation. Trestman was the new HC with no prior NFL head coaching experience and very little cache' in the Bears lockerroom. He needed buy-in from the veterans to establish himself as the leader. Urlacher wasn’t playing at an All-Pro level by 2012, but he was still the defensive captain and the starting MLB for a 10-6 team. So what does GM Phil Emery do? He decides that Urlacher doesn’t have much left in the tank, and very publicly sends him on his way. Bears players (especially defensive players) immediately resent Emery, question the move to hire Trestman, and the lockerroom is fractured from the very start and is never mended. Emery’s and Trestman’s careers are irreparably harmed, and by 2014 the Bears are the joke of the NFL.

Pace’s hiring of Nagy was similar to Trestman’s. Pace himself had a terrible GM record at that point, and Nagy had no prior HC experience and was an unknown to the Bears players. Nagy needed buy-in from the veterans to establish himself as a leader. What message would have been sent had Pace’s first move been to trade Jordan Howard, the offensive leader and arguably the team’s best player? Would that have ‘gained the trust’ of the lockerroom for Nagy? Would off-loading Howard given Nagy ‘gravitas’ with the veterans? Of course not. The whole idea is patently absurd. And we had already seen how this played out just a few years ago.



"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."
 

HeHateMe

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I agree with OP, it's kind of a hindsight problem to expect Pace to have extracted as much value out of trading Howard as possible. How was Pace to know that Nagy would prove to be inept at utilizing a talented RB just because he is not the same type of RB Nagy had in KC?
 

Bears_804

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Doesn't seem like you finished his whole post. Maybe I'm wrong.

Completely different scenarios between the two, but that isn't the point it's trying to make (I don't think).

The Urlacher dismissal was unprofessional in the midst of all the weirdness going on, but it was time for him to go. The departure was never going to be easy for players or fans, but it was handled badly.

Trading Howard at the beginning of the season would have been premature from my perspective, and probably most fans, but who will know what Nagy really wanted to do. Did he keep him on the roster due to past performance and the unknown of his fit in the scheme? Did he expect him to fit into the O more than he did? I don't know, and it's all really speculation, but I don't think he would have lost the locker room, or is going to lose the locker room, based on Howard being traded.
 

WindyCity

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Lots of nonsense being bandied about on CCS regarding Pace's trade of Jordan Howard. A foolish few even insist that Pace should have traded Howard PRIOR to the 2018 season!

To me, its interesting how Howard's situation paralleled with Urlacher's final days in Chicago. Let's say, hypothetically, that Nagy could see the future and knew that Howard wouldn't work in his offense. Would there have been any reason to still keep Howard around for the 2018 season?

Let's look at Urlacher's situation. Trestman was the new HC with no prior NFL head coaching experience and very little cache' in the Bears lockerroom. He needed buy-in from the veterans to establish himself as the leader. Urlacher wasn’t playing at an All-Pro level by 2012, but he was still the defensive captain and the starting MLB for a 10-6 team. So what does GM Phil Emery do? He decides that Urlacher doesn’t have much left in the tank, and very publicly sends him on his way. Bears players (especially defensive players) immediately resent Emery, question the move to hire Trestman, and the lockerroom is fractured from the very start and is never mended. Emery’s and Trestman’s careers are irreparably harmed, and by 2014 the Bears are the joke of the NFL.

Pace’s hiring of Nagy was similar to Trestman’s. Pace himself had a terrible GM record at that point, and Nagy had no prior HC experience and was an unknown to the Bears players. Nagy needed buy-in from the veterans to establish himself as a leader. What message would have been sent had Pace’s first move been to trade Jordan Howard, the offensive leader and arguably the team’s best player? Would that have ‘gained the trust’ of the lockerroom for Nagy? Would off-loading Howard given Nagy ‘gravitas’ with the veterans? Of course not. The whole idea is patently absurd. And we had already seen how this played out just a few years ago.



"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

This is an interesting take and there is probably a little bit of truth in it.

Emery was paranoid and wanted control and power and part of that was getting rid of the established defenders that could threaten that. I think that de-railed his tenure from the start.

I think Nagy has a far better read of the room and presence in the building. Trading Howard last season probably would have offered more value, but the side effects could have been extreme enough that people wouldn't care about the offset in trade value. The real problem is that Howard's skill set was always the same and limited.
 

WindyCity

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I agree with OP, it's kind of a hindsight problem to expect Pace to have extracted as much value out of trading Howard as possible. How was Pace to know that Nagy would prove to be inept at utilizing a talented RB just because he is not the same type of RB Nagy had in KC?

Talented and productive are not the same thing.
 

Rory Sparrow

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I don't know, and it's all really speculation, but I don't think he would have lost the locker room, or is going to lose the locker room, based on Howard being traded.

That's kind of the whole point. Nagy isn't going to lose the locker room now by trading Howard because Nagy has established himself as a competent HC and Howard's performance underwhelmed. But the roles were reversed prior to 2018...Howard was the established star and Nagy had no previous HC track record.
 

WindyCity

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That's kind of the whole point. Nagy isn't going to lose the locker room now by trading Howard because Nagy has established himself as a competent HC and Howard's performance underwhelmed. But the roles were reversed prior to 2018...Howard was the established star and Nagy had no previous HC track record.

This is a good point, their standings within the team and fan base literally flipped.
 

Rory Sparrow

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I had this happen years ago at my office. We had hired a new boss based on an outside recommendation. Nobody knew the guy, and his first move was to immediately fire our most productive employee...I think he wanted to set the tone of "I'm in charge here! Everyone is on notice!", but the opposite happened. Any chance he had of gaining the respect of his employees was lost. One of the worst 'misreads' I've ever seen.
 

WindyCity

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In my short lived CFL days I was playing in Winnipeg and they fired the coach 1 year removed from a Championship game appearance and then did not talk to any players for months and then "released" 25 guys, myself included, in the newspaper and never called us.

That burnt whatever credibility the new regime had with our buddies on the team. They were fired after 1 season.
 

HeHateMe

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Talented and productive are not the same thing.
I agree, why wouldn't I. Nagy when brought in was lauded for being able to put talented players in position to succeed. I'm guessing that success would equate to production, no?

My point stands, Pace had no way of knowing that Nagy would choose to put Mizzel and Cunningham in place of Howard, thinking that they would be in a better position to produce than Howard.
 

remydat

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I agree with OP, it's kind of a hindsight problem to expect Pace to have extracted as much value out of trading Howard as possible. How was Pace to know that Nagy would prove to be inept at utilizing a talented RB just because he is not the same type of RB Nagy had in KC?

I see what you did there.
 

remydat

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Really no comparison at all. Urlacher was a legend at that point. Howard was 2 years in and the entire offense was already being largely changed over. Who is going to be upset exactly? Taylor Gabriel? Trey Burton? The bonds Urlacher had with the team far surpassed what Howard had.

Also ignores the obvious. If Trestman had won people would have gotten over it. The issue is he didn't win.
 
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onebud34

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Really no comparison at all. Urlacher was a legend at that point. Howard was 2 years in and the entire offense was already being largely changed over. Who is going to be upset exactly? Taylor Gabriel? Trey Burton? The bonds Urlacher had with the team far surpassed what Howard had.

Also ignores the obvious. If Trestman had won people would have gotten over it. The issue is he didn't win.
So...it appears that the premise was completely missed by you...

Chicago loves itself a tough gritty RB...Howard was perceived as that...especially after his play in the Steelers win. And was perceived as a "team guy." In addition he was the only Pro-Bowl worthy player from the John Faux era.

Trading him in the 2018 offseason would've had disastrous results
 

remydat

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Lol the same fans shitting on him just one year later. People shitting on Howard now because we won which is exactly what I said.

Also, seemd you missed the premise. The OP is talking about the vets and locker room not Chicago ie the fans.

To pretend that Howard had the same pull in the locker room as Urlacher is absurd.
 
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onebud34

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And just like that...the vortex is gaining steam
 

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I really thought the tune was going to change about howard after the rams demolished the eagles with a running game.

I still say Pace did a wonderful job, played a great game of bluff by signing glennon so he could have taken Trubs at 3. He caved. The bears were only one of a handful of teams that could afford Mack, so its not like he was up against stiff competition. Then the Parkey idiocy with the guaranteed deal?

Far too much credit. How do you win executive of the year when there were so many bad moves?
 

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