Let's Put Theo and Jed to sleep

nwfisch

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In a radio interview, Ricketts was asked why the Cubs can't field even an "average team" during their rebuilding process. Ricketts responded, ‘‘Eighty-three games? Theo and Jed could do that in their sleep!’’

Well Tommy Nickels, time for Theo Baseball and Jed Hoyer to take a nap.
 

patg006

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In a radio interview, Ricketts was asked why the Cubs can't field even an "average team" during their rebuilding process. Ricketts responded, ‘‘Eighty-three games? Theo and Jed could do that in their sleep!’’

Well Tommy Nickels, time for Theo Baseball and Jed Hoyer to take a nap.

Exactly, preferably with a baseball bat upside the head.

Just more PR for the ignorant masses to slurp up.
 

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Exactly, preferably with a baseball bat upside the head.

Just more PR for the ignorant masses to slurp up.

Well, I guess it does take battery to power things some times.
 

WindyCity

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I have really lost faith in this Theo/Jed product that they were selling.

I would like one of them to call me and give me a couple of legitimate reasons to invest in this team and to invest my time.

I would kills for Rickets to have to answer 3 questions a season honestly.
 

CSF77

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In a radio interview, Ricketts was asked why the Cubs can't field even an "average team" during their rebuilding process. Ricketts responded, ‘‘Eighty-three games? Theo and Jed could do that in their sleep!’’

Well Tommy Nickels, time for Theo Baseball and Jed Hoyer to take a nap.


Is he fucking Special person? Avg= 83 wins. They have won 61 in 2012 then 66 in 2013. What a clown. If he feels that doing nothing would produce 83 wins then he just called his boys inept in a round about way.
 

CSF77

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How about this: Try tackling the attendance issues:

2008: 97 wins = 3.3 mil fans
2009: 83 wins = 3.1 mil
2010: 75 wins = 3 mil fans
2011: 71 wins = 3.0 mil
2012: 61 wins = 2.88 mil
2013: 66 wins = 2.6 mil

So inept = less $$$$

Add that up sleepy
 

Flacco4Prez

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Yeah the attendance is going down, because the teams sucks, why do you think he has invested so much into other areas like ST, the minors, and Cuban facilities? Last year I understood why people were so frustrated but this year the plan is at least beginning to lay its foundation. Outside of Tanaka, no free agents really made sense
 

CSF77

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No he said Jed and Theo should win 83 games in their sleep. But they won 61 and 66 games already. So ya doing nothing = 83. Doing something = 66.

That is called being inept at your job.
 

CSF77

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Yeah the attendance is going down, because the teams sucks, why do you think he has invested so much into other areas like ST, the minors, and Cuban facilities? Last year I understood why people were so frustrated but this year the plan is at least beginning to lay its foundation. Outside of Tanaka, no free agents really made sense

Other teams do the same thing with out making a big production out of it.

The reason why the PR department promotes this stuff is to deflect.

What did you just post: every thing but winning. You just gave them permission to lose with what you said.
 

beckdawg

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How about this: Try tackling the attendance issues:

2008: 97 wins = 3.3 mil fans
2009: 83 wins = 3.1 mil
2010: 75 wins = 3 mil fans
2011: 71 wins = 3.0 mil
2012: 61 wins = 2.88 mil
2013: 66 wins = 2.6 mil

So inept = less $$$$

Add that up sleepy

Thing to consider is 400k in attendance at $50 a ticket is $20 mil. Given the falling attendance, I think you're going to have to be closer to 83 wins to draw 3 mil fans. Does one $20 mil player get you to 83 wins? More to the point, do 2 $20 mil players get you to 3.3 mil fans? I'm not necessarily defending the way they've spent money but stated plainly you probably need to spend wisely on several players rather than on 1-2 players to make it work because throwing $40 mil on two players may make you a better team but the financial return may not even pay for it if you're still an average team. This is one of the reasons something like WAR/$ or whatever value you want to represent players at matters to teams. If I'm not mistaken, that value/$ is logarithmic in terms of wins which is to say getting 5 wins at 65 wins is cheaper than getting 5 wins at 90.

As such, they are probably better spending their money on cheaper guys who can get the overall team talent to average MLB level first. It's both safer and more likely to cover their costs. Safer because spending $20 mil on 3-4 players is more likely to yield more return than on one because of injuries ineffectiveness...etc.
 

CSF77

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Part of the problem is building a contending team with profit in mind. If you put a winning team on the field then fans come to see it.

That is normal behavior.

What has been happening is payroll has dropped and wins have dropped and slowly sales have dropped.

What have the Ricketts done to counter this? Make an offer to Tanaka? Ok that is fine but ya they went with a rental again in the end. Add a bat? No more buy low stuff off waver.

So they did nothing to attempt to win.

What has been posted on Cubs.com? Prospect watch and feel good stories.

Bunch of defections from a bad product on the field.

The reality is they are not finding a winning product. And Tommy says they can win 83 in their sleep. What a joke
 

beckdawg

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The reality is they are not finding a winning product. And Tommy says they can win 83 in their sleep. What a joke

Well anyone who blames them for having profit in mind is just not realistic on how business works especially when you consider they literally just bought the team. If it was a case where they'd owned the team 10-15 years and made back their initial investment plus some profit then its a bit different. As for the "in their sleep comment," people are focusing far too much on that sort of talk. Owners are always going to be homers. Frankly, I don't give a shit what ownership has to say because words are pointless. If the front office is doing the right things it will show up on the field.
 

CSF77

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Frankly, I don't give a shit what ownership has to say because words are pointless. If the front office is doing the right things it will show up on the field.



That part makes sense to me. Talk is cheap.


What have they shown us:

Lowered payroll

Rooftop battle over signs

Over emphases on the farm system. Like this is a new idea or something.

Money spent on spring training and foreign country training facilities.

So basically they are using our as the fan to find things that is not putting a better product on the field.

Now future product is in debate as nothing that has been done has seen results yet.

Now the Ricketts have been running the ship now sense 2010.

2010 they shed Lee and Lilly
2011 they added Garza
2012 they shed Z, Dempster, Wells, A-Ram
2013 they shed DeJesus, Garza and Sori

All I have seen here is payroll reduction.

The only add out of this norm was Jackson which was a rebound move after losing to Det.

All of the F/A adds were rental low buy with potential high resale value.

No movements to answer the glaring lacking of the team.

Run production.

Just easy to reflip players.

This year Hammel and Bonfacio. Both low cost and high return value building. But they did not address run production. Or winning needs.

Just a few resell able players.

Seriously Baez is hitting under .100. What if this year he slumps....what then?
 

beckdawg

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What have they shown us:

I mean I'm not sure what to tell you. The moment they decided to reduce payroll to the $105-110 mil range it instantly became a 3+ year rebuild on top of the 2 years they had already been bad. Based on what I've read about their financials, it's entirely possibly that they simply needed to because the MLB rules about team debt in regards of revenue. Bleacher nation had a good article about where their money has gone under Theo et al. We'll never know entirely the truth of the matter but the numbers make sense.

The $105-110 mil budget immediately changes the way you approach things. If you look at the off season prior to 2012, Theo and co apparently had a $105-110 mil budget of which Soriano was set to make $19 mil, Zambrano was set to make $19 mil, Dempster was set to make $14 mil and you had Pena and Ramirez hitting FA. The 2011 team won 71 games. That's about as shitty of a situation as you can be in. You had 3 players making $52 mil of your $105-110 mil budget and you're losing 2 of your top 3 hitters as well as needing a RF and 2 starters. Objectively looking at that scenario there's really no surprise they won only 61 games.

Last year their 3 best young players weren't that good(Castro, Shark, and Rizzo) and their biggest FA tanked as well. I'm not going to suggest that outcome is surprising given what was around them but they simply needed those players to give them more than they did because they clearly are trying to clear the books of older players making lots of money and get younger and it didn't happen. So, as I've long said, I'm not sure what exactly Theo's front office was suppose to do in 2 years given the situation. Maybe I'm wrong about the budget of $105-110 mil payroll but Theo has said he spent every penny in the budget the first 2 years and there's no evidence to the contrary. As for the Ricketts in the first 2 years, it's hard to say. I seem to recall the sale being late in the offseason which probably lead to the first year being fairly hands off. Hendry entering 2011 on the hot seat likely didn't help matters either.

What I can say is anyone who's built an business organization should understand it's about assembling the right people and that takes time. It seemingly took them 2 years to find "the guy" in Theo. Theo then had to assemble people under him such as scouts, analytics.....etc. Then all of those people have to find the right players. You have to remember that the 2009 era cubs were far from a model franchise. They were one of the last to embrace the analytical aspects of the game. Their farm system regardless of what it may have been rated at the time simply hasn't produced much MLB talent in the past 5-10 years.

If you were to bring Theo and Co into some other teams they likely could have a very similar impact that he did when he was hired by the Red Sox. The Sox needed fine tuning not a complete overhaul. And on top of that, having them drop from the $140ish mil range to $105-110 really cripples their ability to start quick. If they were the dodgers or the Yankees where money isn't an issue then again, they could have shortened some of the pain we are now having. What this really goes to show is how poorly the Trib ran the cubs. There are numerous issues that have huge ramifications today. For example, had the tribune thought ahead and purchased the buildings surrounding wrigley or at least forced the the rooftop owners out of business the sign issues are gone. The TV contracts are yet another area that set the current cubs back. The lack of embracing analytics for so long is on them. The lack of maintenance on wrigley itself is on the tribune. The fact the cubs didn't have a latin american facility to begin with is on them.

We can go on and on about things that they didn't do correctly. These are all things that the current owners now are having to fix. I'm not saying they should be lauded with praise for building a latin american facility. But, all of the shit they've done is stuff that's need to be done.
 

beckdawg

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Oh and as for this year, yeah they are 2-5 but are they not competitive? 4 of their 7 games have been 1 run games of which 4 have been against a pirate team that won 94 games last year. Their run differential is -4 which is the same as Boston. I get the frustration that they aren't winning those 1 run games but they clearly aren't a team that's playoff ready yet. Teams rarely go from worst to first. Typically you'll go from 65 wins to 75 wins to 85 wins rather than 65 to 85 in one year. Perhaps I'm overly optimistic but the way I see it is the cubs were suppose to be at their worst early in the year before any of their younger talent can get promoted. If their worst is a -4 run diff over 7 games I think they might not be terrible if they get help from the minors.
 

CSF77

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Dude it is the fact that they rented a starting pitcher to sell and are getting lucky with a waver pick up. Other than that what did they do to improve? Kalish? Waver pick. Olt? Toss in for Garza. Extending Sweeney? Why bother. Trade for Ruggiano? Sign Veras? Not really.


Look I get that they suck and it is going to take.....W/E. They are doing nothing to improve the situation. Just buying more resale and continuing down the same 100 loss path while feeding the fans with tales of great rewards.

Silly really. They should be funding a winning product. If it fails then sell. While developing via draft.

All I see is deflection from the product and fans finding excuses for it.
 

CSF77

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ESPN had it right. If they wanted to win games then they would fund a winning product


The fact that Ricky is trying to win games with platoons of replacement players vs playing players with upside every day just shows that there is little reality of the situation going on here.

Shoot Tommy thinks this is a 83 win team. Lol. Just goes to showcyou how out of touch this team is and how incompetent it is being ran.
 

Jeffrey Lebowski

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I think Ricketts' point is being lost on some here.

The Cubs could have probably overpaid for a couple 30-something free agents, and they undoubtedly would have improved the team in the interim. Perhaps make them a .500 ball club or slightly better. Again, in the interim.

The problem is .500 ball clubs don't make the playoffs, and they don't pick as high in the draft (and in turn, have less pool money). If anything, it slows a rebuilding process, and any success that is achieved is almost certainly unsustainable.

So if you're fine with what had been the Cubs' status quo for so many years, then by all means, make the case why an 83 win team makes sense. I don't see the long-term value in being competitive enough to win half your games, but not good enough to win a championship.
 

brett05

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I think Ricketts' point is being lost on some here.

The Cubs could have probably overpaid for a couple 30-something free agents, and they undoubtedly would have improved the team in the interim. Perhaps make them a .500 ball club or slightly better. Again, in the interim.

The problem is .500 ball clubs don't make the playoffs, and they don't pick as high in the draft (and in turn, have less pool money). If anything, it slows a rebuilding process, and any success that is achieved is almost certainly unsustainable.

So if you're fine with what had been the Cubs' status quo for so many years, then by all means, make the case why an 83 win team makes sense. I don't see the long-term value in being competitive enough to win half your games, but not good enough to win a championship.
The data shows otherwise. You can pick lower in the draft (Cardinals) and still win if you have the right people. Ricketts is claiming he has the right people. To date it has not been seen
 

CSF77

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The data shows otherwise. You can pick lower in the draft (Cardinals) and still win if you have the right people. Ricketts is claiming he has the right people. To date it has not been seen

You can't argue that point.

I believe the reality here is this is all about the money. They are looking to turn a profit. Daddy warbucks is not a baseball fan so he doesn't care about winning so he is not going to take a personal loss to fund a winning product.
 

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