MJ he is not

[PJ Brown]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

PJ Brown wrote:

This is the type of thread where one says things that look pretty silly in a few years. It's funny how so many openly embrace the Kobe as good as MJ hype, which is insulting to any reasonable person's intelligence, but feel the need to dog Lebron. Maybe Lebron isn't MJ, and maybe he won't ever be, but maybe he will--and even if he isn't MJ, he's certainly the closest thing we've seen since. Lebron is the best, better than Kobe, better than anybody in the league or anybody since Jordan, and he's not even peaked yet.

I would take Kobe any day over Lebron. Your pretty much doing the same thing with Lebron.

I respect your opinion and I know that some around the league still agree with you, but my eyes tell me Lebron is certainly already as good as Kobe, and Lebron is still on the upward swing of career. If you're talking stats, overall impact on the game, whatever, he's clearly the best player in the league despite being a few years shy of his likely career prime. And he's increasingly pulling off the clutch superhero act one associates with MJ and Kobe and other elite superstars. Kobe is amazing, one of the greats of all time and still one of the uber-greats in the league, but I don't think anyone would talk about him on the MJ level if he had played with Shaq during his developing years, affording him the spotlight he wouldn't have had if he had to sink or swim on his own. Saying you're no MJ isn't meant as an insult--he's an all-time legend.

The thing is, Lebron is an MVP level megastar in his own right and at a younger age than both MJ and Kobe were doing it, which his scary.

 

[Simeon2UC]

Which teams and I bet Lebron won't have as much problems as Kobe. Lebron has to get the little people involved. Kobe don't have the abilities as Lebron, whereas he could get Mo and others involved. Kobe will be another Guard on Cavs and it would be a glut at that position. Kobe has Pau, Bynum and Odom. Lebron just has Mo and Big Z, those guys are average. Just look at their stats and contrast them. Lebron clearly doe more and he didn't win the MVP for nothing. Lebron would get Pau open shots like crazy. Kobe can't do that, he's more one dimensional with his scoring.

 

[Shakes]

I agree he's not MJ, MJ (or anyone else for that matter) never even came close to having a PER of 40 through a playoff run. People are acting like MJ never lost a game or made a mistake. Lebron isn't perfect, and neither was MJ.

For those saying that Lebron didn't have a good night, MJ had 45 playoff games where he shot worse than Lebron did tonight. Of MJs 13 playoff games where he scored at least 44 points, only twice did he do it on 29 or fewer FGA.

Yes Lebron turned it over a lot tonight, but even including his off night for the playoffs he has 83 assists and only 31 turnovers. That's an amazingly good A/TO ratio, during the regular season only PGs did better. And this is a guy who has had enough of the ball to average 36 points a game.

Honestly I don't see why people are treating these losses as black marks against Lebron. Black marks against the rest of the useless Cavs players, sure. Lebron? He's been incredible, and is currently playing at, dare I say, a level not even MJ ever touched.

 

[Simeon2UC]

It's going to be Magic and Denver in the finals. I know NBA execs are mad because they got them Bryant and James commercials out!

 

[Simeon2UC]

Lebron James is staying in Cleveland but he'll make them do something this summer. If Lebron James had Ben Gordon, he would win the Championship. I know Lebron isn't leaving because of his legacy in his hometown and he knows just by getting one good talent to be his robin is enough to advance for years to come. I couldn't believe if Derrick Rose left his hometown just to go and win a championship elsewhere. It's your dream to get your hometown back on the map and win rings there, that's every child's dream growing up.

 

[Rerisen]

Only thing with LeBron, I'm not sold on his defense over the course of a game. He makes spectacular blocks but can get very lazy in man to man. He has let Rafer Alston of all people get way too many uncontested looks.

I'll say one thing though, how big was that final shot tonight where LeBron actually got a surprisingly good look? If Cleveland goes on to lose this series, that shot could twist the whole course of NBA history or at least delay it for a while.

If Lebron hits that 45 footer or whatever it was, it becomes easily akin to Michael's 'The Shot' as a legacy builder. Especially as it probably propels Cleveland to win the series.

If the Cavs lose this series, no matter Lebron's stats, people are going to look back askance that his team won 66 games and couldn't even get to the Finals.

 

[MADman24]

Rerisen wrote:

Only thing with LeBron, I'm not sold on his defense over the course of a game. He makes spectacular blocks but can get very lazy in man to man. He has let Rafer Alston of all people get way too many uncontested looks.

They are asking him to roam on defense and to go under screens on Rafer that seems to be the gameplan. And he didn't guard him for much of the 2nd half, when he was on Turkoglu or Lewis.

 

[Hendu0520]

Obviously Lebron is not with MJ yet because he has to win at least 3 in a row to start considering it. But there is no reason for us not to believe that he is not on his way. I remember watching 1984-89 and MJ and the Bulls struggled and even Scottie's first 2 years it seemed like he was the only player on the team. Exactly what is happening with Lebron now, but I just haven't seen someone like Lebron he always seems to make the right play. Of course he comes down and does some stupid things every now and then, but like someone already said, so did Jordan and at 24 especially.

Comparing Lebron and Kobe is the past to me, that was a good argument the past 2 years, this year it is plain to see that Lebron is better. No question and it is not even close. Kobe doesn't inspire his teammates, passes when he should shoot, shoots when he should pass, he just doesn't get it. Put Lebron on the Lakers and it is a joke they win every year, this series has just proved that it is 1 on 5 in this series against Orlando. Someone was right we haven't seen anything like this since MJ left, all I have to say is WOW, I just wish he hit that last shot so it could be even more unreal.

And does anyone agree? Chauncey throwing the ball off the back of Bryant was just pathetic. I think that Bryant is the best player to ever have that happen to them, it is always a scrub, c'mon man, terrible.

 

[Diddy1122]

MADman24 wrote:

Rerisen wrote:

Only thing with LeBron, I'm not sold on his defense over the course of a game. He makes spectacular blocks but can get very lazy in man to man. He has let Rafer Alston of all people get way too many uncontested looks.

They are asking him to roam on defense and to go under screens on Rafer that seems to be the gameplan. And he didn't guard him for much of the 2nd half, when he was on Turkoglu or Lewis.

West was on Hedu the whole game. Lewis was guarded by Varaejao or Wallace. LeBron was on either Alston or Pietrus, and it was usually Pietrus, who was left open for 3's in the corner all night long.

Personally, I don't think LeBron is a DPOY-type of player. He is great at getting blocks in the open court, but his on-ball defense is not the best, it just helps when you're alot bigger than the majority of players you're guarding.

 

[Shakes]

The Cavs seem to be happy to let someone shoot a three so long as Howard doesn't get an easy dunk or lay up. I'm not sure it's really Lebron's fault guys are open, it seems to be what they've decided to allow.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

How about Kobe?

Can anyone EVER remember a Michael Jordan team (especially during the dynasties) losing by more than 20 in a playoff game?

I mean, we had that low-scoring game that one time but did Jordan EVER lose by 20 or more in the playoffs?

Kobe's teams also seem to slack off...you know what I mean? They'll bring it one night and then the next night they try to do just enough to get by...

What I loved about Jordan's Bulls was that they came to play EVERY night. Whether they won or lost at least they gave the ticket buyers their full moneys worth.

 

[rodman]

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

Can anyone EVER remember a Michael Jordan team (especially during the dynasties) losing by more than 20 in a playoff game?

1992 Game 2 May 21 Cleveland Cavaliers 107 Chicago Bulls 81
1996 Game 4 June 12 Chicago Bulls 86 Seattle Supersonics 107

Even MJ had those games and I only looked up the championship years.

 

[houheffna]

Lebron has the capabilities to be the greatest player ever. Jerry West has already called him the best in the league over Kobe. He is 23! No one was this great at 23 years old. He adds to his game every year and he will win multiple MVPs. I grew up watching Jordan. That is why I can make the comparison. At the current rate of improvement, Lebron will be the greatest ever, we will have to get used to that. If he was in the league 20 years ago, coaches might have told him to play the 4. He is that big. Yet no one is faster end to end. I think we are looking at a supreme athlete that will be talked about long after we are gone. So I am enjoying the ride, even though I am rooting for Orlando.

 

[Riker]

houheffna wrote:

He is 23! No one was this great at 23 years old.

First off, LeBron is hyped out of this world, makes no sense.


Secondly, if he was THAT great he would win this shit. I mean, what, he had a good team in the regular season and won 66 games but all of a sudden he's all alone in the playoffs?


Thirdly, he's 24, not 23, and he'll soon be 25, with 500 or more games in his ass, so if you expect him to play on this level for 1000 games - you're the MVP of gullible.


500 games at this pace of bullying trough the lane looking at the refs to blow the whistle.



And if anyone thinks Wade was cuddled by the refs - LOL - LeStern already blew Wade's FT per game record in playoffs.



Yeah. And let's not even go into the fact that he never got called for more that 3 fouls in years, in playoffs.



Fourthly, Magic Johnson won Finals MVP and a championship ring - 20 years old. Rookie.


Yeah. Twenty. He didn't fuck it up in his 1st finals. Like James did.


Bruce fucking Bowen shut him down pretty nicely.


Now he's trying to hide behind Rafer Alston in these series, pathetic.



Runner up for the Defensive Player of the Year?

All Defensive Team??
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:






But carry on hyping that buffoon, he can't seem to win even with the league sending him to the line ALMOST MORE THAN SHAQ in his prime.



Hack-a-Shaq will soon be surpassed. By "Touch-A-Bron" tactic. You touch James - you get a foul.


Sometimes it's even Look-A-Bron, you can't even look at him you know he's on the free throw line already.


Great basketball.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

rodman wrote:

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

Can anyone EVER remember a Michael Jordan team (especially during the dynasties) losing by more than 20 in a playoff game?

1992 Game 2 May 21 Cleveland Cavaliers 107 Chicago Bulls 81
1996 Game 4 June 12 Chicago Bulls 86 Seattle Supersonics 107

Even MJ had those games and I only looked up the championship years.

Wow, I stand corrected. Thanks for doing that research - i completely forgot this.

Strong, solid point.

 

[dougthonus]

Newskoolbulls wrote:

PJ Brown wrote:

This is the type of thread where one says things that look pretty silly in a few years. It's funny how so many openly embrace the Kobe as good as MJ hype, which is insulting to any reasonable person's intelligence, but feel the need to dog Lebron. Maybe Lebron isn't MJ, and maybe he won't ever be, but maybe he will--and even if he isn't MJ, he's certainly the closest thing we've seen since. Lebron is the best, better than Kobe, better than anybody in the league or anybody since Jordan, and he's not even peaked yet.

I would take Kobe any day over Lebron. Your pretty much doing the same thing with Lebron.

I wouldn't. Give LeBron Pau Gasol and start counting up the rings.

 

[houheffna]

First off, LeBron is hyped out of this world, makes no sense.


Secondly, if he was THAT great he would win this shit. I mean, what, he had a good team in the regular season and won 66 games but all of a sudden he's all alone in the playoffs?


Thirdly, he's 24, not 23, and he'll soon be 25, with 500 or more games in his ass, so if you expect him to play on this level for 1000 games - you're the MVP of gullible.


500 games at this pace of bullying trough the lane looking at the refs to blow the whistle.



And if anyone thinks Wade was cuddled by the refs - LOL - LeStern already blew Wade's FT per game record in playoffs.





Yeah. And let's not even go into the fact that he never got called for more that 3 fouls in years, in playoffs.



Fourthly, Magic Johnson won Finals MVP and a championship ring - 20 years old. Rookie.


Yeah. Twenty. He didn't fuck it up in his 1st finals. Like James did.


Bruce fucking Bowen shut him down pretty nicely.


Now he's trying to hide behind Rafer Alston in these series, pathetic.



Runner up for the Defensive Player of the Year?

All Defensive Team??







But carry on hyping that buffoon, he can't seem to win even with the league sending him to the line ALMOST MORE THAN SHAQ in his prime.



Hack-a-Shaq will soon be surpassed. By "Touch-A-Bron" tactic. You touch James - you get a foul.


Sometimes it's even Look-A-Bron, you can't even look at him you know he's on the free throw line already.


Great basketball.

If he was that great he would win this shit? Where were you from 1984-1990, some folks said that about MJ. Get him a team that can play and he will win! Bruce fucking Bowen can't do anything with Lebron now. You cannot name me a player that has ever been the type of player he is with that combination of size and speed. He is the main cog of a league leading defense.

Touch a Bron? What about Touch a MJ? I cannot stand when people have a problem with other stars and overlook what happened here in Chicago. He is the best player in the league and if he was in Chicago, you would probably name your sons AND daughters after him...

Hide behind Alston? Do you know why they have him guard Alston? You should seriously turn in your black and white 13 inch tv and watch the NBA on high def, get some reality in your life.

Can you tell me that with the same supporting cast that Jordan had, LeBron couldn't win a championship?

Jordan was a great athlete, Kobe is just as athletic on the basketball court. LeBron is from another planet, period. 6'8", 260 lbs, moving like that? Magic was not that athletic, or that fast. Jordan's ability to impose his will on a game is second to none, that is what neither Kobe or Lebron has. But Lebron is the best 23 or 24 year old the league has seen.

 

[dougthonus]

What is most amazing about this series is that if it weren't for his miracle three, the Cavs would have been swept.

 

[Concept]

dougthonus wrote:

MJ was 28 when he one his first title and had a first ballot HOF player in his prime with him to do it. Give LeBron a first ballot HOF player at any position in his prime, and the Cavs would easily win the title.

Gotta agree with Doug. LBJ has exactly ZERO help out there. LBJ probably doesn't even need a Pippen caliber player to help him. Give him a H. Grant, Kukoc or one of the deadly shooters like Armstrong, Kerr, or Paxson and would have gotten his 4-4-4 playoff run.

 

[houheffna]

I also saw where he is scoring almost 45% of his teams points in this series going into game 4. That is crazy, dude needs help.