Now that Kareem Hunt is a ****ing BROWN does Nagy finally figure out how to use Howar

ZenBear34

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Or maybe they are just using him wrong as his stats in zone blocking would suggest they are. Funny how last year 24 teams had zone blocking 50% or more of the time but somehow because Nagy wants to gap block, suddenly a dude that excelled in zone blocking is no longer good.

It's not about the blocking scheme, it's about the offensive scheme as a whole. When I say old school zone run offense i mean the old Broncos style offenses which are based around running first and play action off of the run. The running back wasn't a huge part of the passing game. There are very few run based offense left in the NFL.

Someone else suggests it's fine because Howard runs and Cohen catches, but that is exactly the issue. The offense is based on misdirection and unpredictability. A guy like Howard needs to be in an offense that is run first.
 

WindyCity

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The problem with zone runs is it is harder to run play action off of them because of the movement up front and the fact that the backside end is unblocked and can kill your QB.

You also do not get nearly the misdirection that you do with power run schemes.

That being said, if Howard is the primary running back you are going to need to stick to the zone runs, even if that limits some areas of the playbook. He does not have the lateral quickness or speed to consistently hit the gap in the power run game and get through the soup to the 2nd level.
 

remydat

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Rams are an outside zone scheme that runs a ton of play action. Made the Super Bowl because of it.
 

WindyCity

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I think the bigger issue with Howard is that he cannot run all the routes that Nagy wants.

He is a checkdown or flat catcher of the football. If you watch Hunt as a rookie he is running wheels, posts, corners, go routes and really a complete route tree.

I think that they will look for someone with more speed and ability to run a more complex route tree.
 

RiDLer80

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I think the bigger issue with Howard is that he cannot run all the routes that Nagy wants.

He is a checkdown or flat catcher of the football. If you watch Hunt as a rookie he is running wheels, posts, corners, go routes and really a complete route tree.

I think that they will look for someone with more speed and ability to run a more complex route tree.

Man I've been saying this for a while. Howard is a solid back but he limits the offense when he's in.
 

remydat

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It's not about the blocking scheme, it's about the offensive scheme as a whole. When I say old school zone run offense i mean the old Broncos style offenses which are based around running first and play action off of the run. The running back wasn't a huge part of the passing game. There are very few run based offense left in the NFL.

Someone else suggests it's fine because Howard runs and Cohen catches, but that is exactly the issue. The offense is based on misdirection and unpredictability. A guy like Howard needs to be in an offense that is run first.

The issue with this is there was never any concerted attempt to get Howard more involved in the passing team. He may not be able to run WR style routes but the fact is Nagy never tried to incorporate him much at all even on the check down routes that are still a feature of the offense. It is not like the RB runs wheel routes or go routes every single play.
 

msadows

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The issue with this is there was never any concerted attempt to get Howard more involved in the passing team. He may not be able to run WR style routes but the fact is Nagy never tried to incorporate him much at all even on the check down routes that are still a feature of the offense. It is not like the RB runs wheel routes or go routes every single play.

True, I forgot remy knows more than the NFL coach of the year.

If Howard were a pass catching threat, he'd get thrown to more.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

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1. Did you read anything provided to you? The Chiefs are historically a zone read offense. They ran it 60% of the of time so yes we did in fact bring Nagy here to run a zone read offense.

2. It is just is pure speculation that he can't play at the same level because of the physicality of his running. In fact his 4.1 YPC when zone blocking is employed was the same as in the prior year so virtually nothing changed in terms of his running ability in zone blocking. What changed is Nagy ran it 58% of the time instead of the 81% of the time Fox ran it.

3. To say he is a rhythm back that takes a while to get going is again pure speculation. What facts do you have to support that. What is is YPC on 1-5 carries vs say his next 5-10 carries, etc.

In short, I provided you data and you just blindly speculating. It is clearly you either didn't read or comprehend what was provided because your claim that he was not brought here to run a zone run offense when that was the bulk of his blocking scheme in KC is categorically false and patently absurd.

1) Again to say that just because KC ran a zone read more than he did here does not mean the problem is with Nagy. Howard is not as good of a RB as Hunt and even after Hunt was gone Damien Williams averaged 5.1 ypc in KC. Cohen averaged 4.1 YPC and Howard and was slightly above 3.5 and 3.7 YPC. You can say we should have ran the ball more with Cohen then but he was routinely out wide as a WR
2)it’s not pure speculation watch the damn tape on him. Compare how hard he hit holes in his rookie season compared to this season. He had no burst this season.
3) Same points as 2


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msadows

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Please link to the article where Nagy said any of this. You are speculating and passing it off as fact.

Nagy never said it. You watch the games, which is something you should try doing bruh.
 

WindyCity

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It will probably work out like this,

-Howard will stay because it is too big of a risk to let him walk if you do not have Hunt waiting in the wings.

-They will draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round who has more big play ability and ability in the passing game.

-Howard will walk after his contract.

I think this should probably be the natural cycle of things for the Bears. I do not like paying RBs so every 3 years they should draft another one in the 3rd round and keep them cheap and fresh.
 

remydat

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Nagy never said it. You watch the games, which is something you should try doing bruh.

One can watch the games and easily conclude that Nagy realized Howard was better running zone and so ran more zone. Particularly as the weather changed and it got colder thereby lending itself to more reliance on a run game.

So you acting like your theory is the only logical one is just odd.
 

msadows

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1) Again to say that just because KC ran a zone read more than he did here does not mean the problem is with Nagy. Howard is not as good of a RB as Hunt and even after Hunt was gone Damien Williams averaged 5.1 ypc in KC. Cohen averaged 4.1 YPC and Howard and was slightly above 3.5 and 3.7 YPC. You can say we should have ran the ball more with Cohen then but he was routinely out wide as a WR
2)it’s not pure speculation watch the damn tape on him. Compare how hard he hit holes in his rookie season compared to this season. He had no burst this season.
3) Same points as 2


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Cohen actually averaged 4.5 YPC.

And the chiefs with Alex Smith ran zone run schemes, on the year, as much as the bears did the first 8 weeks where Remy is complaining about us not running zone enough.

I dont really get what he's trying to say with the whole chiefs point. Yea, they averaged the highest YPC on zone runs, but they also ran it 60% of the time, which is what Nagy ran the first half of the season. Not to mention the last 4 weeks of the 2017 KC season Nagy called up a lot more zone runs because the chiefs were struggling to move the ball.

So he wants a better offense and says 15 points isn't enough.

His solution? Go away from the playcalling that Nagy grew up in via the Chiefs and go back to foxball.
 

ZenBear34

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The issue with this is there was never any concerted attempt to get Howard more involved in the passing team. He may not be able to run WR style routes but the fact is Nagy never tried to incorporate him much at all even on the check down routes that are still a feature of the offense. It is not like the RB runs wheel routes or go routes every single play.

Maybe because coming into the season he had the worst hands in football and he's not capable of running routes?

I love Jordan Howard, but he is a very specific back for a very specific offense, and this is not that offense. They need a main back who is versatile more then one who is really good at one thing.
 

msadows

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One can watch the games and easily conclude that Nagy realized Howard was better running zone and so ran more zone.

One could watch the games and easily conclude the offense is much more explosive and diverse when not running zone blocking schemes 80% of the time.

But that doesn't really fit your narrative, does it?
 

remydat

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It will probably work out like this,

-Howard will stay because it is too big of a risk to let him walk if you do not have Hunt waiting in the wings.

-They will draft a RB in the 3rd or 4th round who has more big play ability and ability in the passing game.

-Howard will walk after his contract.

I think this should probably be the natural cycle of things for the Bears. I do not like paying RBs so every 3 years they should draft another one in the 3rd round and keep them cheap and fresh.

Yeah this assumes you don't end up drafting Jeremy Langford.
 

WindyCity

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One can watch the games and easily conclude that Nagy realized Howard was better running zone and so ran more zone.

I am not 100% sure that is what Nagy wants to do. I have no doubt that it is what Howard does best, but he is not talented enough for me to want Nagy to alter his vision of the offense.

That is the limiting factor. He can only really run one style and he cannot run the routes other backs can run. If Nagy wants to mix up the run game and use the primary back in more pass concepts I have no issue with him looking for a replacement for Howard.
 

WindyCity

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Yeah this assumes you don't end up drafting Jeremy Langford.

That is why they will keep Howard or sign a comparable free agent in case the draft pick is not good.
 

remydat

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Cohen actually averaged 4.5 YPC.

And the chiefs with Alex Smith ran zone run schemes, on the year, as much as the bears did the first 8 weeks where Remy is complaining about us not running zone enough.

I dont really get what he's trying to say with the whole chiefs point. Yea, they averaged the highest YPC on zone runs, but they also ran it 60% of the time, which is what Nagy ran the first half of the season. Not to mention the last 4 weeks of the 2017 KC season Nagy called up a lot more zone runs because the chiefs were struggling to move the ball.

So he wants a better offense and says 15 points isn't enough.

His solution? Go away from the playcalling that Nagy grew up in via the Chiefs and go back to foxball.

A good coach adjusts his gameplan to fit reality. Fairly simple concept. Your original claims were acting like Nagy would need to totally revamp his offense to fit Howard which is just bullshit. Increasing Zone from 60% to 75% is not a total revamp. So you just covering for your exaggeration earlier.

Maybe because coming into the season he had the worst hands in football and he's not capable of running routes?

I love Jordan Howard, but he is a very specific back for a very specific offense, and this is not that offense. They need a main back who is versatile more then one who is really good at one thing.

Check down routes are not complicated and the fact is he clearly worked on his hands based on the limited view we got. Seems odd to have a guy work to improve something and then not use it based off of last year. Perhaps I thought we were getting a flexible coach not someone who is just going to stick to his preconceived notions and ideas.

One could watch the games and easily conclude the offense is much more explosive and diverse when not running zone blocking schemes 80% of the time.

But that doesn't really fit your narrative, does it?

Really based on what? We probably don't need to run a ton of zone against the likes of the Bucs but probably need to run it against teams like Minny. Again, a good coach adjusts his gameplan. If Bellichek just stuck with the same percentages and gameplan every week, he wouldn't win as much as he does.
 

remydat

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I am not 100% sure that is what Nagy wants to do. I have no doubt that it is what Howard does best, but he is not talented enough for me to want Nagy to alter his vision of the offense.

That is the limiting factor. He can only really run one style and he cannot run the routes other backs can run. If Nagy wants to mix up the run game and use the primary back in more pass concepts I have no issue with him looking for a replacement for Howard.

I am not sure running the ball is what BB wants to do when he has Brady but if the opponent calls for it then he will do it. The purpose here is to win games not satisfy your own desires or ego. If Nagy wants to succeed at this level he is going to have to adjust his gameplan to fit the situation.

Or he can be like the Rams and stick with stick that doesn't work. Or perhaps be like Andy Reid and be a perennial loser. Of course, even Reid understood that he need to move off of the WCO and incorporate more vertical concepts in his scheme. So this is just excuse making. You gameplan to win.
 

msadows

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I am not 100% sure that is what Nagy wants to do. I have no doubt that it is what Howard does best, but he is not talented enough for me to want Nagy to alter his vision of the offense.

That is the limiting factor. He can only really run one style and he cannot run the routes other backs can run. If Nagy wants to mix up the run game and use the primary back in more pass concepts I have no issue with him looking for a replacement for Howard.


Nah, according to Remy Nagy switched his entire offense up because of Jordan Howard.

It's just a coincidence we started seeing playcalling that isn't typically in the Reid tree right after Mitch Trubisky came back from injury to have his worst game of the season.

Nagy dialed up 85% zone blocks not because he wanted to, or because of howard, but because he knew his best chance to win in the playoffs was with defense and a run game.

Anyone who thinks Nagy wants to just completely change his playbook to fit the skillset of one average player is delusional.

We've seen the offense Nagy wants to run, that was week 1-8 before they "reeled in" the playbook for mitch. It features multiple formations and multiple blocking schemes, not this foxball nonsense.

If you wanted to run zone 80% of the time, once again, you should go see what John Fox is doing these days.
 

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