Proof of concept

[czman]

I have no clue who will win game 7, but I think the Pacers have proved that playing intelligent physical basketball combined with dominating the boards and the paint is the best way to beat the Heat.

The Pacers don't have the PG play that the Bulls do, which is another area where the Heat are weak. Hinrich and Rose are light years ahead of Hill and Augustine.

I think this series is proving the Bulls don't need another name. They just need a few guys to take the next step. Additionally, the Bulls need to play physical without going overboard. The Pacers are playing tough, but they are doing a much better job of staying in control of their emotions. The Pacer that is having the toughest time staying level headed, Stephenson, is also the Pacer who is struggling the most.

I hope the Bulls are watching these games and taking notes.

I also hope the Bulls don't make a bunch of changes. Let this team make a run.

Boozer and Gibson are equal to Hansbrough and West. Noah and Hibbert are close. Butler and Stephenson are close. Deng is not Paul Gorge, But Rose is far greater than Hill. I also think the Bulls can have a better bench if Marco comes back.

I like the Bulls chances if they get a quality backup to Deng and Noah.

 

[2323]

Hibbert has a better offensive game and that's what's bearing fruit against Miami. They need more scoring in the paint. The Bulls' rebounding is there.

Another thing is, the system of defense the Bulls use is good enough on it's own without needing a bunch of defensive ninjas. In fact, having a bunch of defensive specialists is kind of a redundancy. What they need is offensive versatility and guys who can score off the dribble.

But having said that, I'm not so sure Wade isn't on the decline. People say "he's injured" but he's injured a lot. It's almost starting to sound like cover for "he's old". So, Im not sure it's a certainty that Miami isn't going to be somewhat diminished going forward.

 

[s0Lstar18]

I'll give you Gibson>hansbrough, but:

West>Booz---the difference is West will bang inside against miami whereas Booz would rather shoot 15ft fadeaways, plus he has some of his worst games against miami.

Butler>Stephenson---It's close but I'll give Butler the edge because he has a more consistent jumper, and is more controlled in his play.It'll be a wash once Stephenson works on that jumper

George>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Deng---not even close, one can actually isolate, dribble less, is athletic and isn't brittle. I'm one who says trade Deng..oh well

Drose>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Hill---no need to explain

Hibbert>>Noah---It's close, but only because of Noah's heart, and hustle. Offensively Hibbert is worlds better than Noah, defensively it's close but I'll give the nod to Hibbert because of his size, even if he doesn't get the block his size has deterred Miami from consistently getting shots in the hole. The only thing I can say Noah may have Hibbert beat is rebounding...

Sorry, but we're not better than Indiana even with Rose, we're very similar but they have something we do (a player who can isolate, and score, but he's 6'7-6'8 and our guy is 6'2-6'3) and something we don't--- 2bigs who can score in the post and play D...that's the biggest difference, and they don't even have Granger...

 

[RoseMVP1]

They have a good balance of scoring inside and out. Hibbert and West are consistently scoring on the inside and Paul George is doing the rest. Jo and Boozer can't do what those two can and D Rose doesn't have the size Paul George does. It's harder for him to score on LeBron than it is for George.

 

[Shepard]

They have a good balance of scoring inside and out. Hibbert and West are consistently scoring on the inside and Paul George is doing the rest. Jo and Boozer can't do what those two can and D Rose doesn't have the size Paul George does. It's harder for him to score on LeBron than it is for George.

The Bulls defend much differently than the Pacers in regards to Jo and Taj's ability to switch off of screens and defend wing players. The Bulls make Bron/Wade play in a crowd more than anyone....I love how the Bulls defend Miami, but as you said we need more capability offensively as the Pacers just get more favorable shots against the Heat.

However, I'd take a healthy Bulls roster over a healthy Pacers roster any day.

 

[Shepard]

George>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Deng---not even close, one can actually isolate, dribble less, is athletic and isn't brittle. I'm one who says trade Deng..oh well

I'm with you on dealing Deng, but do you deal him for less than what you should? I fully believe the Bulls FO has tried, but he's undervalued by the rest of the league despite being selected as an All-Star the past two years.

 

[ChettheJet]

I agree they shouldn't and won't make big changes.

You saw Noah step up his offensive game this year. He shoots better, Where he jumps ahead of Hibbert is his ability to pass the ball and make the offense flow. Sure Hibbert has more post game but once the ball goes in he's limited in what happens, either he gets a shot off of he just gets rid of it and lets someone else make a move. Noah high or low post can pass to a cutter or find the open shooter and you get a good shot. Hibbert may block more shots but he doesn't have the ability to switch on a smaller player and defend like Noah.

You saw the leap Butler made from the bench his first year and the first 3/4 of this year to the playoffs. It isn't unreasonable to think he can improve over what we saw in the playoffs when he's got Rose on the floor who commands more attention and can pass the ball better than Robinson ever could. Jimmy will get even more open shots and have a better chance to drive the lane after Rose breaks teams down.

After a year of Boozer being a primary scorer I think if you don't expect him to be the low post, back to the basket, force his way to the basket scorer, we can survive with him. He can't take players his size and strength deep in the post but younger, lighter, more athletic leapers he can overpower. And when he's on with the jump shot he can score in bunches against players who won't close on him.


When Hinrich can just come off the bench, with Gibson, you actually have a stronger defensive team which will throw off opponents who almost always bring more scoring off the bench. Best would be resigning Bellinelli and Mohammed. With Bellinelli you don't need a backup 3 because starting 2 Butler can fill those minutes and you've got Bellinelli and Hinrich behind him. I would be looking for another center and a 4.


The reason the Bulls can contend is they play defense, and they can get past Miami or Indiana in the playiffs because they understand what it takes to beat both of them.

 

[Scoot26]

If the right deal comes up. They should take it. If they can acquire Kevin Love without trading the whole team away, they should. If they can acquire a star shooting/wing player, they should.

I dont think any of that is going to present itself in the offseason. I see us going into next season with a lineup of Noah-Boozer-Deng-Butler-Rose with Hinrich and Gibson playing 6th and 7th man..with whatever free agents we drag up and whoever we draft at #20 (Probably a center).

This team is fairly evenly matched with the Pacers at the moment. I think the Bulls have it better with Rose at point, but the Pacers would just stick George on Rose to give him issues. George of course is a better defender than he was in 2011, so that then leaves the rest of the team to step up and make things happen.

Either way, I see a healthy Bulls team playing their usual A game for the regular season next year if they can stay relatively healthy. They should retake the central (Though Indiana wont be far behind) and probably be a #1 or #2 seed.

I still don't think the team at present can beat the Miami Heat. Though if Wade continues to degrade that could help, but the Bulls need to figure out how to defend Chris Bosh, the Pacers seem to know how, but other than one game in the series, Bosh has ripped the Bulls offensively, mainly just by hitting that 20 foot jumpshot consistently. I dont know if thats just bad luck or if it is something in the scheme. I dont know. But the Bulls need to figure that out going forward. LeBron is going to do what LeBron does. The key is to shut down everyone else.

 

[2323]

I agree they shouldn't and won't make big changes.

You saw Noah step up his offensive game this year. He shoots better, Where he jumps ahead of Hibbert is his ability to pass the ball and make the offense flow. Sure Hibbert has more post game but once the ball goes in he's limited in what happens, either he gets a shot off of he just gets rid of it and lets someone else make a move. Noah high or low post can pass to a cutter or find the open shooter and you get a good shot. Hibbert may block more shots but he doesn't have the ability to switch on a smaller player and defend like Noah.

You saw the leap Butler made from the bench his first year and the first 3/4 of this year to the playoffs. It isn't unreasonable to think he can improve over what we saw in the playoffs when he's got Rose on the floor who commands more attention and can pass the ball better than Robinson ever could. Jimmy will get even more open shots and have a better chance to drive the lane after Rose breaks teams down.

After a year of Boozer being a primary scorer I think if you don't expect him to be the low post, back to the basket, force his way to the basket scorer, we can survive with him. He can't take players his size and strength deep in the post but younger, lighter, more athletic leapers he can overpower. And when he's on with the jump shot he can score in bunches against players who won't close on him.


When Hinrich can just come off the bench, with Gibson, you actually have a stronger defensive team which will throw off opponents who almost always bring more scoring off the bench. Best would be resigning Bellinelli and Mohammed. With Bellinelli you don't need a backup 3 because starting 2 Butler can fill those minutes and you've got Bellinelli and Hinrich behind him. I would be looking for another center and a 4.


The reason the Bulls can contend is they play defense, and they can get past Miami or Indiana in the playiffs because they understand what it takes to beat both of them.

There are a lot of things Noah is better at than Hibbert. Much of this is matchup driven. One thing Hibbert is better at is a problem against Miami and so that's what's shaping much of this idea that Hibbert is better. He might be. Maybe there is a premium on scoring. But aside from scoring, Noah is better at most things than Hibbert. Noah covers more ground on defense than Hibbert. He has to with Boozer being such a big liability. Noah can pass better than Hibbert. You can put Noah at the elbow and practically run an offense through it. Noah is just as good at rebounding and probably better. Hibbert has better size which would normally allow him to bother more shots, except one of Noah's strengths is his ability to get in the air multiple times in a short span of time. You'lll never see Hibbert dribbling the lenght of the court either.

 

[Shepard]

You saw Noah step up his offensive game this year. He shoots better, Where he jumps ahead of Hibbert is his ability to pass the ball and make the offense flow. Sure Hibbert has more post game but once the ball goes in he's limited in what happens, either he gets a shot off of he just gets rid of it and lets someone else make a move. Noah high or low post can pass to a cutter or find the open shooter and you get a good shot. Hibbert may block more shots but he doesn't have the ability to switch on a smaller player and defend like Noah.

Your analysis of Noah/Hibbert is spot on, but I would also say Noah is much better at running the floor on both ends. I'd take Jo over Roy, but I'll admit its close. I also think Jo will age much better than Roy as well.

You saw the leap Butler made from the bench his first year and the first 3/4 of this year to the playoffs. It isn't unreasonable to think he can improve over what we saw in the playoffs when he's got Rose on the floor who commands more attention and can pass the ball better than Robinson ever could. Jimmy will get even more open shots and have a better chance to drive the lane after Rose breaks teams down.

I was saying the same thing pretty much throughout the season's 2nd half of what you just said- he'll fit Rose like a glove. Kerr pointed out in the playoffs Butler shooting 80% from the line shows his ability to develop into a quality outside shooter. I think he could stroke the three at least as good as Lu- but feel he'll shoot it much better.

After a year of Boozer being a primary scorer I think if you don't expect him to be the low post, back to the basket, force his way to the basket scorer, we can survive with him. He can't take players his size and strength deep in the post but younger, lighter, more athletic leapers he can overpower. And when he's on with the jump shot he can score in bunches against players who won't close on him.

I'd amnesty Boozer and save the 7.5 or so million. I'd rather the Bulls play fast and when the ball goes into Boozer...things just seem to die. He's improved defensively since his arrival, but that isn't saying much. When he's on the floor, that almost always means Taj isn't. I know the organization actually really like Boozer so I believe he'll be back next year- but I'd be quick to dump him. I understand that the Bulls "need his offense", but I just like what Taj does for the Bulls more defensively and the ball won't get lost in him. Regardless of what Booz does in the pick & roll...I'm not a fan.

 

[2323]

I'd amnesty Boozer and save the 7.5 or so million. I'd rather the Bulls play fast and when the ball goes into Boozer...things just seem to die. He's improved defensively since his arrival, but that isn't saying much. When he's on the floor, that almost always means Taj isn't. I know the organization actually really like Boozer so I believe he'll be back next year- but I'd be quick to dump him. I understand that the Bulls "need his offense", but I just like what Taj does for the Bulls more defensively and the ball won't get lost in him. Regardless of what Booz does in the pick & roll...I'm not a fan.

Gibson might actually be a better fit offensively with Noah. He's more athletic and is better at flashing to the basket and finishing than Boozer. Boozer's game neutralizes this aspect of the Bulls offense, especially when he's on the low post.

But I agree, they should amnesty Boozer. What's tough is what happens with other parts of the roster and the FO might be intimidated by making too much change.

 

[Shepard]

I still don't think the team at present can beat the Miami Heat. Though if Wade continues to degrade that could help, but the Bulls need to figure out how to defend Chris Bosh, the Pacers seem to know how, but other than one game in the series, Bosh has ripped the Bulls offensively, mainly just by hitting that 20 foot jumpshot consistently.

I agree that this present construction won't beat Miami next year. The reason Bosh rips the Bulls so much is because the Bulls have sold out so much in making LBJ and Wade play in a crowd and clog the lane as to where it allows Bosh to pop out alone on the perimeter. If Taj and Jo were together on the floor more-this would happen a lot less as Jo will leave Bosh to help on the other two where Boozer would not flash to help on Bosh. This didn't just happen in the Miami match-up, but has happened far too often for three years concerning Boozer defensively.

 

[Bear Pride]

Exactly, this is why we need to bring in big men that can create and score.

 

[2323]

Exactly, this is why we need to bring in big men that can create and score.

Would you amnesty Boozer? If so, then what? Would you roll with Taj until Miriovic can come? Would you try to sign Millsap, Jefferson, or Josh Smith?

 

[czman]

Exactly, this is why we need to bring in big men that can create and score.

How do you propose they do that? Last time I checked magic wands are in short supply.

 

[Shepard]

How do you propose they do that? Last time I checked magic wands are in short supply.

Considering there are about 8 of them in the NBA....

 

[RoseMVP1]

Exactly, this is why we need to bring in big men that can create and score.

That's why I've been preaching about trading for Kevin Love since the day I joined this board

 

[BNB]

Would you amnesty Boozer? If so, then what? Would you roll with Taj until Miriovic can come? Would you try to sign Millsap, Jefferson, or Josh Smith?

We don't have the money to sign them. Even if we amnestied Boozer.

 

[RoseMVP1]

Also unfortunately for us, as I'm sure no one wants to hear it, if Hibbert plays like he has this series throughout a whole year, the Pacers are better than us right now. Paul George is getting better by the dribble...he will be a superstar.

 

[s0Lstar18]

I'm with you on dealing Deng, but do you deal him for less than what you should? I fully believe the Bulls FO has tried, but he's undervalued by the rest of the league despite being selected as an All-Star the past two years.

If you can get youth, and athleticism at the wing or some picks then yes