Ryan Pace is the best GM we've had since Jerry V

[Rory Sparrow]

I thought the Bears selecting Watson was a slam dunk in terms of fit. He would definitely have been there at #3, he has a gamer mentality, big game experience, and a little edge to fit into a big city market.

I think Pace out-thought himself. Watson just made too much logical sense.

The pre-draft 'analysis' was funny to me....people going out of their way to poke holes in Watson's resume....people going out of their way to completely make up strengths in Trubisky's resume. Watson's biggest detriment was playing so many times on a national stage...Trubisky's biggest advantage was never playing on a national stage with a podunk football program.

 

[Les Grossman]

The pre-draft 'analysis' was funny to me....people going out of their way to poke holes in Watson's resume....people going out of their way to completely make up strengths in Trubisky's resume. Watson's biggest detriment was playing so many times on a national stage...Trubisky's biggest advantage was never playing on a national stage with a podunk football program.

Agree, many thought that because Watson played in so many big national games that he somehow peaked in college. Oops.

 

[Les Grossman]

I think Pace will get another QB if Trubisky turns out to be just a guy. I think the team he built and the coaching staff he assembled will allow that.

Having Nagy will help.

But if Trubisky being just a guy after Pace essentially tripling down on him [trade, pick, huge win now investment] then I think it would hurt him and it would not shock me to see Nagy become "the guy" in the franchise.

I think the window will have closed substantially by the time the Trubisky Experiment will have run its course. I don't think Pace gets another shot at another QB, and even if he does, this team won't be good enough at the time to save his job.

 

[jive]

Forgive me for my continued skepticism heading into 2018 after witnessing a GM inherit a 5-11 team and going 6-10, 3-13, and then ending up back at 5-11 three years later. Not sure how it "should've been more clear that things were progressing", especially when Pace's first draft was garbage and Mike Glennon was actually the opening-day QB starter in Year 3 of a rebuild...YEAR 3!!!

Agreed. I had plenty of reason to be skeptical of Pace. But one thing about 2018 that has been different than previous playoff teams is that we went into the draft without any glaring holes. Much different than previous playoff teams that had glaring holes that needed to be addressed in the draft/FA such as the 2001 team that still needed a QB, #2 WR, TE, OT, and DE or the 2010 team that needed 2 WRs, 2 OTs, a DT and a SLB.

 

[remydat]

Seems a bit skewed in Pace's favor.

Roquan Smith, MitchellTrubisky, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen, Cody Whitehair, Jordan Howard, Eddie Goldman, Leonard Floyd, Adrian Amos

I wouldnt call any of these 9 exceptional aside from perhaps Jackson. The rest are solid contributors although have the potential to be much more. Still probably too early as with the other GMs their picks obviously have more years to judge.

 

[WindyCity]

Seems a bit skewed in Pace's favor.

Roquan Smith, MitchellTrubisky, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen, Cody Whitehair, Jordan Howard, Eddie Goldman, Leonard Floyd, Adrian Amos

I wouldnt call any of these 9 exceptional aside from perhaps Jackson. The rest are solid contributors although have the potential to be much more. Still probably too early as with the other GMs their picks obviously have more years to judge.

Factoring in draft position I think that boosts some of them up.

Roquan, Jackson, Goldman are the 3 from the list that I think are exceptional. Amos and Callahan were also paid like they were very good.

James Daniels, Anthony Miller, Bilal Nichols also all look like players.

 

[jive]

Seems a bit skewed in Pace's favor.

Roquan Smith, MitchellTrubisky, Eddie Jackson, Tarik Cohen, Cody Whitehair, Jordan Howard, Eddie Goldman, Leonard Floyd, Adrian Amos

I wouldnt call any of these 9 exceptional aside from perhaps Jackson. The rest are solid contributors although have the potential to be much more. Still probably too early as with the other GMs their picks obviously have more years to judge.

If anything, it's skewed towards the other GMs. There are guys on their lists that didn't make All-Pro, All-Rookie or a Pro Bowl. For example, I included Paul Edinger and John Roper as exceptional because they made All Rookie teams, but otherwise had average careers. Jerry Fontenot and Curtis Conway were included even though they never made All Pro or All Rookie because they had long and productive careers.

I only included rounds 1-8 for Vanisi and Tobin to make it more even with GMs that had less draft rounds. If I included all draft picks towards their percentage, they would fare worse, especially Tobin. Everyone on the exceptional list made All Pro, All Rookie, or went to a Pro Bowl except 2. Otherwise, the criteria was applied evenly to all GMs.

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

Since you're insistent on repeating this dumb shit, here you go. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...eams-five-earn-as-and-two-fall-short-with-ds/

View attachment 1658

And another: http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-...exanders-2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-rankings/

View attachment 1659


.... Do you need me to keep going, or you done?

Lmfao can you read? I said as a prospect which means

Since you're insistent on repeating this dumb shit, here you go. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/...eams-five-earn-as-and-two-fall-short-with-ds/

View attachment 1658

And another: http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2017-...exanders-2017-nfl-draft-quarterback-rankings/

View attachment 1659


.... Do you need me to keep going, or you done?

Thank you we found a single link having Mahomes as the #1 QB and even then it said take Watson in the 2nd round. Blaming Pace for not taking Mahomes now is dumb. If we took Mahomes at 3 imagine Daniel Jones’ reaction times a million

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

Wow, either their admission standards have really slipped, or Felicity Huffman is your mom.

I thought the consensus was that Trubisky was the least accomplished and biggest gamble of Watson/Mahomes/Trubisky. I thought afterwards people were very surprised that both Trubisky and Mahomes went so high in the 1st round.

People were shocked Mitch got traded up for, not that he went high. And yes my mom is felicity huffman what’s your point?

 

[WestCoastBearsFan]

I do not think we credit Pace for doing what everyone else thought was the right move. He gets judged on results and right now the results are not in his favor.

That is not saying that cannot move into that his favor, but right now he paid more for a worse product.

Isn’t it fair to say the Texans did the same thing then?

 

[WindyCity]

Isn’t it fair to say the Texans did the same thing then?

How?

Mahomes was not available for them.

 

[WindyCity]

People were shocked Mitch got traded up for, not that he went high. And yes my mom is felicity huffman what’s your point?

I am a huge fan of your dad William H Macy. He is awesome in Shameless.

 

[jive]

If you wanted to analyze a GM purely on who he could have taken, you can make any GM look like a fool. What matters is whether or not he took a good player that can produce at a high level within their system. I don't think the GM in Denver took flak for trading up to get Elway when he could have gotten Marino. Marino was the better QB in the end, but Elway made 5 SB appearances and won 2 rings. I doubt the GM in Indy feared losing his job for taking Marvin Harrison instead of taking Terrell Owens in the 3rd round. Owens was the better WR, but Harrison was the better fit. And the list goes on and on...

 

[run and shoot]

What the fuck does “experience wise he was better” even mean?? Are you saying more experience is the reason he was better? By that logic Eli Manning is better than Jared Goff and Carson Wentz. I’ve asked you twice now to produce a single credible article or anything of validity showing where Mahomes was ranked as a better prospect than Mitch or even Watson and you can’t because literally nobody thought he was.

Also you are really going to say Watson is a better prospect because of one drive? Do yourself a favor and think before you post. Nobody is stripping anything away from Deshaun especially not me, i am a Clemson student, but where was that one drive against Indy???

Again, please show me one credible source that agrees with you that Mahomes was the better prospect than Mitch. Just one. Nobody thought mahomes was better than Mitch or Watson.

Here ya go:

Bleacher Report's initial draft analysis of Mahomes had him labeled as "the best arm in the 2017 draft class," giving him the edge over current NFL starters Deshaun Watson and Mitch Trubisky.


"He is able to push the ball all over the field and can do so from multiple platforms with his great arm," the site wrote in 2017. "A shotgun-only quarterback in college, Mahomes is athletic enough to learn to take snaps from under center. Velocity on all throws is very impressive for Mahomes, who understands how to dial up spin and get the ball through tight coverage."
--------------------

What the does “experience wise he was better” even mean??

It means both Mahomes & Watson had more college experience
than Mitch ( 1 season experience....lost to a inferior bowl team)

Also you are really going to say Watson is a better prospect because of one drive? Do yourself a favor and think before you post. Nobody is stripping anything away from Deshaun especially not me, i am a Clemson student, but where was that one drive against Indy???

Also you are really going to say Watson is a better prospect because of one drive?

No ( that's your projection). The drive was one of many crowning moments in Watson's college career.

Nobody is stripping anything away from Deshaun especially not me,

Ok so......
How should we interpret the below comment / back-handed slap to Watson's accomplishments?

WestCoastBearsFan said:

Watson also had a national championship caliber team if you hadn’t noticed.

 

[Starion]

First off, its definitely, DEFINITELY about you.

Forgive me for my continued skepticism heading into 2018 after witnessing a GM inherit a 5-11 team and going 6-10, 3-13, and then ending up back at 5-11 three years later. Not sure how it "should've been more clear that things were progressing", especially when Pace's first draft was garbage and Mike Glennon was actually the opening-day QB starter in Year 3 of a rebuild...YEAR 3!!!

In a good rebuild, the high price players are usually the last to get replaced due to salary cap hell. QBs hits are tough. We all saw how much it helped to spend big TWICE on Cutler without a solid team to roll with that could be paid to stay together. That's why a QB wasn't drafted til then IMO, and no 2017 was not a solid roster AT ALL!! Shittiest WR room in NFL by far, both by WR stats, offensive stats, and predictable Fox coaching stats....all reasons I expected improvement in 2018, among others.
YES I agree that Glennon was shitty AND overpaid. Should've been a 1 year prove it deal (or 2 with cheap exit options). One of Pace's worst mistakes.

Do the math: You expect an entirely new roster in 3 years? How many quality STARTERS do you expect per draft? 3-4 on average is pretty good. FA? We all know CHI was a cesspool that FAs had to be paid big to come to during a losing effort rebuild. We all knew Bears weren't going to SB in 2017 with Glennon or Mitch, so why were so many so upset over losing 6 games by 1 score or less that year? Didn't matter! They got a Roquan and filled the few remaining holes. Still needed depth which they now have -->How's that WR & RB room now?!?


If you're "Not sure how it should've been more clear things were progressing", my point was that I tried posting these reasons over the last few years (especially last offseason), with clear points & data, and was flamed. Yes, that's about me & I'm very sorry if I come off as a told you so - I clearly said before that I was just venting. Is that not okay to do on here?
If my not being warm & fuzzy about flaming and trolling by people who were wrong offends you, that is on you.

We're all entitled our opinions. It's totally fine to be pessimistic, cautious, "wait and see", or better yet - go put some money on the Under! Not okay to be dicks about others' opinions, but to BS about it, learn, share, and maybe enjoy some football along the way together. =)

I knew this thread would upset people with such an outlandish claim about Pace. We need to see LASTING success before crowning him. I'm just saying things look promising so far at this point.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

If you're "Not sure how it should've been more clear things were progressing", my point was that I tried posting these reasons over the last few years (especially last offseason), with clear points & data, and was flamed. Yes, that's about me & I'm very sorry if I come off as a told you so

Its really not that complicated. You were wrong then...you are wrong now. I'm not sure why you expect a different outcome when history hasn't been rewritten. Bears were still 5-11, 6-10, 3-13, 5-11, 12-4.

I am more confused/concerned over your apology for coming off as "I told you so"...what on earth did you tell us about?

 

[remydat]

Factoring in draft position I think that boosts some of them up.

Roquan, Jackson, Goldman are the 3 from the list that I think are exceptional. Amos and Callahan were also paid like they were very good.

James Daniels, Anthony Miller, Bilal Nichols also all look like players.

Roquan is a 1st round pick and has a long way to go to be exceptional. Goldman is a 2nd round pick and 2nd round picks drafted that high are typically expected to be good contributors so solid pick but nothing exceptional about it. He is not some perennial pro bowler or drafted in the late rounds.

Jackson I would agree as he he is later round pick that is now an All Pro.

If anything, it's skewed towards the other GMs. There are guys on their lists that didn't make All-Pro, All-Rookie or a Pro Bowl. For example, I included Paul Edinger and John Roper as exceptional because they made All Rookie teams, but otherwise had average careers. Jerry Fontenot and Curtis Conway were included even though they never made All Pro or All Rookie because they had long and productive careers.

I only included rounds 1-8 for Vanisi and Tobin to make it more even with GMs that had less draft rounds. If I included all draft picks towards their percentage, they would fare worse, especially Tobin. Everyone on the exceptional list made All Pro, All Rookie, or went to a Pro Bowl except 2. Otherwise, the criteria was applied evenly to all GMs.

That is a fair counterpoint. I honestly didn't look at who you had as exceptional for the other GMs in great detail. So it appears you are a bit more generous than I am which is fine as long as it has been done consistently.

 

[DrGonzo]

I retract my earlier statement that Pace will ultimately be judged on Trubisky's career. Really he'll be judged on whether the Bears win a championship or not, and of course Trubisky is the single most important factor in that.

The team is young enough that the window should be open for a few years, though being in cap hell could start to close it fairly quickly.

Pace's choices can be debated but not his decisiveness, and he can't be criticized for being too careful.

 

[run and shoot]

Pace is still learning on the job.

 

[Visionman]

G

Pace is still learning on the job.

Good. That means he will be even better going forward.

And finishing 2nd for executive of the year with also hiring the COTY isn't bad now!