What Would You Think is a Fair Trade for Chris Sale?

JZsportsfan

New member
Joined:
Mar 31, 2013
Posts:
2,503
Liked Posts:
674
Location:
Chicago
Bryant, Soler, Russell, and some specs?

That sounds crazy. Bryant has shown star potential. Bryant and some specs should be enough, but that's not happening. Bryant isn't moving

If they gave up that much today, they'd be trying to get that much in a month at the deadline because they fell out of contention lol
 

brett05

867-5309
Joined:
Apr 28, 2009
Posts:
27,226
Liked Posts:
-1,272
Location:
Hell
Bryant, Soler, Russell, and some specs?

That sounds crazy. Bryant has shown star potential. Bryant and some specs should be enough, but that's not happening. Bryant isn't moving

If they gave up that much today, they'd be trying to get that much in a month at the deadline because they fell out of contention lol

Re-read the OP
 

czman

Well-known member
Joined:
May 7, 2013
Posts:
2,195
Liked Posts:
551
If I am the Cubs I am looking to trade Solar so he would be on the list. Solar has not show he can stay healthy, his defense is not very good, and he strikes out too frequently. My guess is Solar has more perceived value than actual value.

I would not move Castro. I get the feeling Castro has less perceived value than actual value.

I see Russel as another guy who has more value in a trade. I don't think he is the top of the order bat, and he is not the middle of the order bat. He may end up as Castro with better defense and not as strong a bat.

Solar, Vogelbach, a young sub AA pitcher and another player. If Russell goes in the trade the Cubs would need something back. I think the Cubs are winning the trade, but it is close. The goal of trades it to get more actual value and give up perceived value.

The trade would never happen though. The sox are not going to help the Cubs get closer to a WS just to go full tank. I think they would probably rather help a division rival. If the Sox go full rebuild they should look to help anyone but the Cubs. Division teams don't matter if you are not trying to win. If the Cubs ever win a WS, the sox fan base my shrink even more, and they may not draw as many young fans.
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
Unless Schwarber stays at Catcher, he is not more valuable than Bryant.

I wouldn't make any claims just yet. Schwarber can walk at a similar rate to Bryant and he's shown far better contact. Across all levels Schwarber has a 14.5% walk rate and a 19.3% k rate. Bryant was at 12.8% and 26.6%. Now to be fair, AAA is probably going to push Schwarber's numbers down slightly. Bryant also had 55 HRs in 773 minor league PAs. Schwarber has 31 in 558 PAs. So, Bryant has a bit of an edge there at a HR ever 14 PAs compared to 18 for Schwarber. But the fact he's even in the conversation with arguably one of the more dominating minor league players over the past 10 years says enough on it's own.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say he will be more valuable than Bryant because Bryant's on a 7 WAR pace over 162 games and unless Schwarber is Mike Trout you really don't do much better than that. I would however suggest he may be equally valuable though Schwarber strikes me more as a Rizzo profile than he does Bryant. There's obviously a defensive argument to be made here too. But as I said right after they drafted Schwarber, if you put those walk/k rates together(college at the time) with 25-30 HR power he likely has and compare that to past players you get a rather scary good list of hitters.

Regardless, I wouldn't touch any of Schwarber, Rizzo and Bryant. If you sandwich Rizzo between those 2(R/L/R) you have potentially 3 hitters who could have a .400+ OBP. Last year there were only 3 players in the league with a .400 OBP(Bautista, McCutchen and Victor Martinez) and only two more(Stanton and Werth) above .390. Obviously if you get that out of C you are probably talking multiple time all-star but even if he's only a part time catcher and plays LF the majority of the time you have guys like Manny who have shown what kind of value that sort of bat can have in LF despite being a train wreck defensively. Manny had career 13.6%/18.5% walk/k rates though possibly more power at 17.6 PA per HR obviously at the MLB level vs minors and put up 66.3 career fWAR which is good for 78th all time.

Either way, it may just end up being splitting hairs. I mean as an example does it really matter who was more valuable between Ortiz and Manny in Boston's prime days? If Schwarber is 80% of what Bryant has shown this year thus far then those 3 give the cubs easily the best future heart of the line up of any team I can think of and that's before you start talking about Russell likely bating in front of them, Soler presumably after them...etc. Barring injury, I am not sure how teams are going to outscore these guys in the future. They are 5th in the NL runs/game without all of them being in their prime and without Schwarber, Soler and Castro having a down year/injured. Their average age is 27.1 which is the second lowest in the NL behind Arizona at 27.0 and third in the MLB with houston being youngest.
 

TL1961

Well-known member
Joined:
Apr 24, 2013
Posts:
32,586
Liked Posts:
18,979
That is why I wouldn't go after Sale. I would not trade Russell, Bryant or Schwarber. Those 3 are the back bone of your future. I would toss Soler out there but they could move Bryant to RF and use Olt or Baez at 3B as back fill.

So no-no's:
Bryant/Schwarber/Russell

Rather not:
Soler/Baez

Prime to trade:
Alcantara/Almora/Vogelbach

Reality teams looking to deal with the Cubs will come looking for hitting. If they are looking for mostly pitching there are far better teams to trade with.

Schwarber is not the backbone of the future.

Would we seriously not rather have Sale?
 

TC in Mississippi

CCS Staff
Joined:
Oct 22, 2014
Posts:
5,305
Liked Posts:
1,815
Schwarber is not the backbone of the future.

Would we seriously not rather have Sale?

I do think Schwarber is part of a future murderers row myself but I would trade him for Sale. I'm not sure I'd include him in a trade for anyone else.
 

hyatt151

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
10,849
Liked Posts:
3,531
Chris would give the Cubs everything they want in a TOR. The White Sox should pull in an amazing haul for him. Granted, I would want Bryant, Soler, Russell and some specs and you guys want to trade us AA and Torres for him, what would be a more middle ground fair trade for him from the Cubs?

I'd prefer Quintana, nice #3A/B, at half the price.
 

knoxville7

I have the stride of a gazelle
CCS Hall of Fame '22
Joined:
Jul 12, 2013
Posts:
16,727
Liked Posts:
13,211
Location:
The sewers
My favorite teams
  1. Chicago Cubs
  1. Chicago Bulls
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Tennessee Volunteers
I wouldn't make any claims just yet. Schwarber can walk at a similar rate to Bryant and he's shown far better contact. Across all levels Schwarber has a 14.5% walk rate and a 19.3% k rate. Bryant was at 12.8% and 26.6%. Now to be fair, AAA is probably going to push Schwarber's numbers down slightly. Bryant also had 55 HRs in 773 minor league PAs. Schwarber has 31 in 558 PAs. So, Bryant has a bit of an edge there at a HR ever 14 PAs compared to 18 for Schwarber. But the fact he's even in the conversation with arguably one of the more dominating minor league players over the past 10 years says enough on it's own.

I'm not sure I'd go so far as to say he will be more valuable than Bryant because Bryant's on a 7 WAR pace over 162 games and unless Schwarber is Mike Trout you really don't do much better than that. I would however suggest he may be equally valuable though Schwarber strikes me more as a Rizzo profile than he does Bryant. There's obviously a defensive argument to be made here too. But as I said right after they drafted Schwarber, if you put those walk/k rates together(college at the time) with 25-30 HR power he likely has and compare that to past players you get a rather scary good list of hitters.

Regardless, I wouldn't touch any of Schwarber, Rizzo and Bryant. If you sandwich Rizzo between those 2(R/L/R) you have potentially 3 hitters who could have a .400+ OBP. Last year there were only 3 players in the league with a .400 OBP(Bautista, McCutchen and Victor Martinez) and only two more(Stanton and Werth) above .390. Obviously if you get that out of C you are probably talking multiple time all-star but even if he's only a part time catcher and plays LF the majority of the time you have guys like Manny who have shown what kind of value that sort of bat can have in LF despite being a train wreck defensively. Manny had career 13.6%/18.5% walk/k rates though possibly more power at 17.6 PA per HR obviously at the MLB level vs minors and put up 66.3 career fWAR which is good for 78th all time.

Either way, it may just end up being splitting hairs. I mean as an example does it really matter who was more valuable between Ortiz and Manny in Boston's prime days? If Schwarber is 80% of what Bryant has shown this year thus far then those 3 give the cubs easily the best future heart of the line up of any team I can think of and that's before you start talking about Russell likely bating in front of them, Soler presumably after them...etc. Barring injury, I am not sure how teams are going to outscore these guys in the future. They are 5th in the NL runs/game without all of them being in their prime and without Schwarber, Soler and Castro having a down year/injured. Their average age is 27.1 which is the second lowest in the NL behind Arizona at 27.0 and third in the MLB with houston being youngest.

you do realize Kyle is a left handed hitter right? lol the "sandwich" would be Bryant in the middle of the other two so itd be L/R/L
 

beckdawg

Well-known member
Joined:
Oct 31, 2012
Posts:
11,723
Liked Posts:
3,723
you do realize Kyle is a left handed hitter right? lol the "sandwich" would be Bryant in the middle of the other two so itd be L/R/L

Must have slipped my mind. In fairness, i'd been up since 3am and that was 10 pm last night. The fact that anything understandable even came out is nothing short of remarkable.
 

hyatt151

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
10,849
Liked Posts:
3,531

If you think he's a one, I won't argue. But I'd give you Schwarber and Alcantra for Quintana. As for Bryant and Russell, you and I both know, they are not available.
 

hyatt151

CCS Donator
Donator
Joined:
Aug 23, 2012
Posts:
10,849
Liked Posts:
3,531
If you think he's a one, I won't argue. But I'd give you Schwarber and Alcantra for Quintana. As for Bryant and Russell, you and I both know, they are not available.

FWIW, yes, Schwarber and Alcantra would be an overpayment.
 

Top