Why Peyton Manning is the GOAT

Rory Sparrow

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Eli will be looked back upon throughout history as being the better of the two if you can believe that.

Your posts are terrible.

Even if you boil it down to "titles", Peyton Manning is one of only three QBs in history to win titles for two different franchises. i don't see any criteria in which Eli Manning is 'remembered' as being better than his brother.
 
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mecha

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Your posts are terrible.

Even if you boil it down to "titles", Peyton Manning is one of only three QBs in history to win titles for two different franchises. i don't see any criteria in which Eli Manning is 'remembered' as being better than his brother.

Peyton Manning didn't win it himself with the Broncos. against the Seahawks he got obliterated in what had to be one of the most lopsided Super Bowl losses ever. against Panthers it was all defense.

my entire argument is Eli actually showed up the entire time in his SB runs. Peyton Manning lucked into facing the LovieBears who were coaching incompetent and Cam Newton having another emotional breakdown. is Eli better than Peyton? no, I don't think so, but I'll say his wins had more weight and his postseason performances were strong. I think Peyton's one of the best to ever play. I'm just giving Omelet shit.

why do you even care what I have to say? am I in your top 100 posters?
 

Rory Sparrow

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Peyton Manning didn't win it himself with the Broncos. against the Seahawks he got obliterated in what had to be one of the most lopsided Super Bowl losses ever. against Panthers it was all defense.

my entire argument is Eli actually showed up the entire time in his SB runs. Peyton Manning lucked into facing the LovieBears who were coaching incompetent and Cam Newton having another emotional breakdown. is Eli better than Peyton? no, I don't think so, but I'll say his wins had more weight and his postseason performances were strong. I think Peyton's one of the best to ever play. I'm just giving Omelet shit.

why do you even care what I have to say? am I in your top 100 posters?

Judging from your postings in this thread, how can you even ask that question?
 

CNiel36

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Wow...nothing slips past you!

Thanks! Sorry if i find it annoying to make a statement that isn't true and then justify it by explaining what would need to be different for your fantasy statement to be a fact.

Mitchell Trubisky had the 2nd best QB Rating, if you don't count the Rams or the 1st Minn game?

See how stupid that statement is?
 
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xer0h0ur

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Even if I am going to judge Brady and Manning by their regular season heroics...Brady still wins that argument. There literally is next to nothing Peyton ever did better.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Thanks! Sorry if i find it annoying to make a statement that isn't true and then justify it by explaining what would need to be different for your fantasy statement to be a fact.

Mitchell Trubisky had the 2nd best QB Rating, if you don't count the Rams or the 1st Minn game?

See how stupid that statement is?

Please point out specifically which part of my posting "wasn't true". I can't wait to see how stupid you are!

The narrative comp that Brady is great in the postseason while Manning chokes has been around for years/decades. Brady obviously had the better W/L mark, but I thought it was funny that from a passing performance standpoint, Manning had the same postseason passer rating as Brady. Manning had HCs with terrible postseason reps (Mora, Dungy) and usually had a much worse defense than Brady. In his early years, the Colts D had like 9 white guys starting. When Manning won a Super Bowl over the Bears, the Colts were 23rd in points allowed. So perhaps the analysis was a bit 'simplistic'.

Since Manning retired after winning the SB in 2015 with a postseason rating of 75.4, with Brady posting a clutch 76.6 rating in his two 2015 postseason games, Brady has separated himself a bit and now has a 90.5 postseason rating versus Manning's 87.4. So I guess we should have given the narrative credence back in the day, foreseeing a time in which QB ratings would go through the roof after Manning's retirement in 2015, and knowing that Brady would continue playing an eventually surpassing Manning's postseason rating. Makes sense.
 

CNiel36

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Please point out specifically which part of my posting "wasn't true". I can't wait to see how stupid you are!

The narrative comp that Brady is great in the postseason while Manning chokes has been around for years/decades. Brady obviously had the better W/L mark, but I thought it was funny that from a passing performance standpoint, Manning had the same postseason passer rating as Brady. Manning had HCs with terrible postseason reps (Mora, Dungy) and usually had a much worse defense than Brady. In his early years, the Colts D had like 9 white guys starting. When Manning won a Super Bowl over the Bears, the Colts were 23rd in points allowed. So perhaps the analysis was a bit 'simplistic'.

Since Manning retired after winning the SB in 2015 with a postseason rating of 75.4, with Brady posting a clutch 76.6 rating in his two 2015 postseason games, Brady has separated himself a bit and now has a 90.5 postseason rating versus Manning's 87.4. So I guess we should have given the narrative credence back in the day, foreseeing a time in which QB ratings would go through the roof after Manning's retirement in 2015, and knowing that Brady would continue playing an eventually surpassing Manning's postseason rating. Makes sense.

Well I really don't have to wait to see how stupid you are, I just have to read your posts. Your comment was:

'Until Brady's last two statistically-inflated postseasons, he and Peyton Manning had the exact same postseason passer rating at 87.4. '

My comment was that this is a stupid statement. Let me take a falsehood and dress it up as a truth by putting in a caveat. Look Brady has the same Rating in the playoffs as Manning if I were to take the last 2 seasons out of the equation. Why? Why the hell would you take the last 2 seasons out of the equation?

Again it is like me saying Trubs had the 2nd best QB Rating if not for the games vs LA and Minny (1st). At the end of the day Manning was a great QB, but Brady is GOAT. Manning will always go down as a choke artist who won one championship vs Rex Grossman and was drug across the finishline by the Denver D in the other. Brady will go down as a winner.

The correct point would have been, Brady only has a 4 point advantage in Playoff QB rating.
 

Pegger

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Pegger I don't know what drugs you're doing but its Tom Brady and its not even close. The only time the Patriots actually had bonafide star talent offensive players they didn't even win the SB. Tom and the Patriots routinely racked up championships with players I would 100% bet my house on that people would struggle to even name. Then there is the matter of playoffs record. Manning is literally a shit quarterback in the playoffs and nothing you can tell me will ever make me change my mind in that regard. Tom has always been composed and had to play tight games to earn his rings.
Over the past 3 Superbowls (NE over ATL, Philly over NE and NE over LAR) I'm of the mindset that Brady is the best, but it's not a simple exercise of counting rings. I've said this before: Football is a team sport and no individual 'wins' a Superbowl. Each year Brady has been fitted for a new ring many of his teammates made plays that were critical for success.

For me where Brady is different is how he's taking care of his body and be able to play at such a high level late into his career. What he's done at age 39, 40 and 41 is remarkable. Just to compare Peyton was pathetic at 39, the wheels completely fell off for Favre at 41 and Montana retired at 38. He's done something at the QB position we've never seen before. Drew Brees will try to follow this season at 40, but it's easier said than done.

I know people often reference how Brady dragged a ho-hum offensive teams to Superbowls, but people forget that defense wins championships. Here's how the Pats have ranked in points against each year he's been on a Superbowl winning team:
  • 2001 - 6th
  • 2003 - 1st
  • 2004 - 2nd
  • 2014 - 8th
  • 2016 - 1st
  • 2018 - 7th
Actually of the 17 seasons Brady has been the starting QB in NE 13 of those times he's had a top 10 ranked D in points against (76% of the time). Brady has NEVER played on an NFL team who's defense has ranked beneath 17th in points against (or 0% of the time).

Now let's compare that to Peyton's Indy days: 13 seasons as the starter, 5 top 10 ranked defenses in points against (38% of the time). Funny enough when you look at his time in Denver only 2 of his 4 seasons he had a top 10 ranked D in that category. The worst defense he played with in Denver, 22nd in points against, was also the year he freakishly tore up the stat book (5477 yards, 55 TDs) and they lost in the Superbowl to the Seahawks. Of the 17 seasons Peyton laced them up 8 of those seasons he was playing with a defense ranked less thank 17th in points against (or 47% of the time).

Things always get tighter in the playoffs because logically you play better teams. Here's how the two stack up in regular season vs post season:
  • Brady's passer rating for the regular season is 97.6. His postseason is 90.5 (7.1 passer rating drop)
  • Peyton's passer rating for the regular season is 96.5. His postseason is 87.4 (8.9 passer rating drop)
Finally, I think the GOAT arguments are all stupid. Each player has different schemes, teammates, coaches and play against different players, schemes and coaches. It's never an apples-to-apples comparison, so why do we have to argue over who's #1 like it would change anything?

Peyton is great. Brady is great. Every QB I mentioned above is great. All of them would be considered franchise guys who are destined for the HOF.
 

Pegger

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We gave him a SB...
Peyton was efficient against your team (25/38, 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 sack, QB Rating = 81.8), but his real value came in catching the D make adjustments and being able to audible to different runs. The two headed dragon of Rhodes and Addai ran for 191 yards (4.5 ypc) on one of the better Bears defenses we've seen in the past 30 years.

Your team did well. The opponent did better. Sure there's regret, but I'd say there's no shame in how the Bears played in 2006 or that day in particular.
 

xer0h0ur

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Sure, lets just gloss over the fact that offensive efficiency drastically affects how much a defense has to do.
 

Pegger

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Sure, lets just gloss over the fact that offensive efficiency drastically affects how much a defense has to do.
No doubt that offense, defense and special teams are all interrelated. That's actually the basis of my argument why Peyton should at least be in the conversation. Outside from 1-2 years with the Colts and 1-2 years with Denver (total of 2-4 seasons) Brady has had the better defense.

If your argument is that Brady had more efficient offenses, so the defense ranking was better you'd have to dig up the data to prove that. Peyton is a 5 time NFL MVP, so there has to be some efficiency baked into that.

To bring it all back to my point - It goes deeper than just counting rings. It's also very subjective, meaning typically whomever is making a specific argument has an agenda. That includes myself! I've just never seen a QB move players around, flap his arms like an idiot, switch the play only to switch it again and be flat out dominant for so long. He changed the way the game is played today and that's largely without an established Offensive Coordinator, great defense, HOF head coach, etc...

I do think Brady's ability to play at this level late in his career is like how Peyton would change the play on the fly. It will change what others do. Soon everyone will be eating his avocados and avoiding all these different foods. There's a chance Brady's commitment to his diet might lead to QBs being able to play beyond 45, which I never thought I'd see.
 
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run and shoot

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run and shoot said:


We gave him a SB...


Peyton was efficient against your team (25/38, 247 yards, 1 TD, 1 INT, 1 sack, QB Rating = 81.8), but his real value came in catching the D make adjustments and being able to audible to different runs. The two headed dragon of Rhodes and Addai ran for 191 yards (4.5 ypc) on one of the better Bears defenses we've seen in the past 30 years.

Your team did well. The opponent did better. Sure there's regret, but I'd say there's no shame in how the Bears played in 2006 or that day in particular.

From a previous response to "Om" ...

run and shoot said:
( In the SB) You're crazy we jumped out to 10-0 lead. Ron Rivera was using an aggressive "D" attack against Manning and the Colts ( to perfection). Then Smith started going with a non-aggressive soft cover2 "D" and Manning started picking us apart underneath late in the 2nd half.

Plus Grossman literally threw the game away too.

When ya' pressure P. Manning ( like Rivera did) , he is just not clutch in $$$ games.
=============


Pegger the key to the Bears SB loss ( to the Colts) was a lack of pressure on Manning .
 

Rory Sparrow

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Well I really don't have to wait to see how stupid you are, I just have to read your posts. Your comment was:

'Until Brady's last two statistically-inflated postseasons, he and Peyton Manning had the exact same postseason passer rating at 87.4. '

My comment was that this is a stupid statement.

Nope! You didn't say it was 'stupid', you said my statement wasn't true. In fact, you said that you (verbatim) "find it annoying to make a statement that isn't true". I asked you, verbatim, to "please point out specifically which part of my statement wasn't true." I then added that I couldn't wait to see how stupid you are.

You definitely did not disappoint. You really ARE this stupid! I didn't think it was possible, but even in your most recent posting you refer to my comment as a "falsehood". I already explained my statement in detail in Post #47, so your subsequent 'cloying' response in Post #49 is even more pointless. I don't get it.
 

Mdbearz

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Brady is the GOAT... period. All other QBs are going to be measured against him as the #1 most successful QB EVER, including Manning
 

CNiel36

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Nope! You didn't say it was 'stupid', you said my statement wasn't true. In fact, you said that you (verbatim) "find it annoying to make a statement that isn't true". I asked you, verbatim, to "please point out specifically which part of my statement wasn't true." I then added that I couldn't wait to see how stupid you are.

You definitely did not disappoint. You really ARE this stupid! I didn't think it was possible, but even in your most recent posting you refer to my comment as a "falsehood". I already explained my statement in detail in Post #47, so your subsequent 'cloying' response in Post #49 is even more pointless. I don't get it.

If you don't get it, I cant help u. Some stupid is just not fixable. Maybe stick to pointless lists ranking your top 100 dumbshit statements.
 

Rory Sparrow

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If you don't get it, I cant help u. Some stupid is just not fixable. Maybe stick to pointless lists ranking your top 100 dumbshit statements.

Its not an issue of me "not getting it". I asked you a question. You said my statement wasn't true...I asked you which part of my statement wasn't true. You say now "I cant help u", but you actually can...just answer my question.
 

CNiel36

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Its not an issue of me "not getting it". I asked you a question. You said my statement wasn't true...I asked you which part of my statement wasn't true. You say now "I cant help u", but you actually can...just answer my question.

This is a FALSE statement:

"he and Peyton Manning had the exact same postseason passer rating at 87.4. "

This is the caveat that was added to the statement. You also make a odd statement about them being inflated with no fact to back that up. Just another use or word play to make your statement seem legit.

"Until Brady's last two statistically-inflated postseasons,"

So again its like me saying:

If not for the the 2 fluky games where Mitch was surly hurt, he would have the 2nd best passer Rating in the NFL for the 2018 season.

Now doesn't that seem stupid?
 

Pegger

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Brady is the GOAT... period. All other QBs are going to be measured against him as the #1 most successful QB EVER, including Manning
I'm not disagreeing with you, but he also had a level of coaching stability, consistent weak division and getting away with cheating that can't be replicated. It's not his fault that he's been in a good spot, but it can't be disregarded.

Although it's a team accomplishment, he does have the most rings of all QBs. It's an extremely simplistic way of looking at the discussion which typically caters to bandwagon fans whom only watch playoffs or the Superbowl. They say Brady because they really can't think of many other options.
 

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