Why Peyton Manning is the GOAT

[Pegger]

Since this Peyton thread has followed it's natural course and turned into a Brady thread here's an interesting observation.

Since 2016 when he was 39 years old for the past two seasons he's had less yards/game, lower TD%, lower completion %, Higher Int %, lower yards per attempt and lower yards per completion on a year-over-year basis.

One of my compliments to his legacy is how he's been able to play better later in his career. This is completely the true, but the trend is turning and father time will always win. I think with Brady his slight regression has been largely masked by how great he's been in Superbowl games, specifically against Atlanta and Philly.

Here's three facts that suggest the downturn is close:

1 - The year-over-year statistically downturn mentioned above.

2 - Last year was actually a down playoff year by his standards - His passer rating went from 106.5 (Chargers), to 77.1 (KC) to 71.4. They won, but 13 points in a Superbowl isn't a formula for success.

3 - He's publicly said he wants to bulk up for this season - When an athlete tries to make physical changes later in their career typically it's the kiss of death. Weather it's a new diet, new workout or altering their physique it's the athlete saying what they were doing isn't working and they need to change. Often what needs to change is inevitable, being the number of years they have been here.

To reiterate, I do think Tom Brady is the best QB of all time. The reason why I bring this up is you should avoid him in your fantasy football leagues. He'll still be drafted fairly high, so maybe it's best to avoid him. If anything go a bit heavier on Sony Michel, whom they will lean on more this season. Add in that the splits suggest the passing game is without the recently retired Gronk and things are lining up for another regression season.

 

[gwharris2254]

Here's why Don Beebe is the GOAT WR:

That's how EggBritches swings the rope when the kids in the hood are jumpin

 

[run and shoot]

Please point out specifically which part of my posting "wasn't true". I can't wait to see how stupid you are!

The narrative comp that Brady is great in the postseason while Manning chokes has been around for years/decades. Brady obviously had the better W/L mark, but I thought it was funny that from a passing performance standpoint, Manning had the same postseason passer rating as Brady. Manning had HCs with terrible postseason reps (Mora, Dungy) and usually had a much worse defense than Brady. In his early years, the Colts D had like 9 white guys starting. When Manning won a Super Bowl over the Bears, the Colts were 23rd in points allowed. So perhaps the analysis was a bit 'simplistic'.

Since Manning retired after winning the SB in 2015 with a postseason rating of 75.4, with Brady posting a clutch 76.6 rating in his two 2015 postseason games, Brady has separated himself a bit and now has a 90.5 postseason rating versus Manning's 87.4. So I guess we should have given the narrative credence back in the day, foreseeing a time in which QB ratings would go through the roof after Manning's retirement in 2015, and knowing that Brady would continue playing an eventually surpassing Manning's postseason rating. Makes sense.

In his early years, the Colts D had like 9 white guys starting.

You're kiddin' right?
And Manning, a white Qb, with a chance to go ahead, did this to effectively lose Super Bowl XLIV for the Colts:

When Manning won a Super Bowl over the Bears, the Colts were 23rd in points allowed.

Post >>>> #38 explains what happened to the Bears in that SB.

The narrative comp that Brady is great in the postseason while Manning chokes has been around for years/decades.

Is it false?

P. Manning does not win / chokes in $$$ games.
P. Manning is not the Qb you want to start in $$$ games....regular season gamesYES! $$$ games NO!

 

[Rory Sparrow]

This is a FALSE statement:

"he and Peyton Manning had the exact same postseason passer rating at 87.4. "

This is the caveat that was added to the statement. You also make a odd statement about them being inflated with no fact to back that up. Just another use or word play to make your statement seem legit.

"Until Brady's last two statistically-inflated postseasons,"

So again its like me saying:

If not for the the 2 fluky games where Mitch was surly hurt, he would have the 2nd best passer Rating in the NFL for the 2018 season.

Now doesn't that seem stupid?

This might possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever read on CCS, since I've already hashed/re-hashed/re-re-hashed everything that you seem to be confused about.

First and foremost, which part of my statement was untrue? You are now saying I am using 'word play' to make my statement 'seem legit'....HUH? What I said was factually, empirically, 100% true. Does what I said upset you? I don't get it.
The idea that Brady is awesome in the postseason and Manning chokes in the postseason has been around since the early-2000's. I already went over this with you in Post #47. When their careers overlapped, Brady & Manning had the same postseason passer rating. I found that interesting.

After Manning retired, Brady has surpassed Manning in postseason passer rating. Great! So the people who claimed Brady's superiority when Manning was playing were clairvoyant to see that Brady would eventually surpass Manning in 2017-2018? Makes sense.

League avg QB rating last year was 92.9. In Manning's last full year as a starter (2014) it was 88.9. In Manning's last season (2015) it was 90.2.

 

[CNiel36]

This might possibly be the dumbest thing I've ever read on CCS, since I've already hashed/re-hashed/re-re-hashed everything that you seem to be confused about.

I guess you don't read your own posts? I am not starting again. This is pointless, I am unsure if you are unable to read or if you are so full of yourself that you cant admit you made a stupid comment and got called out about it. But whatever, I am over this thread.

 

[bears26]

Manning did not even play well against the Bears and Grossman, plus Manning is a heavy steroids user.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I guess you don't read your own posts? I am not starting again. This is pointless, I am unsure if you are unable to read or if you are so full of yourself that you cant admit you made a stupid comment and got called out about it. But whatever, I am over this thread.

LOL at "not starting again". What have you 'started' in the first place? You said my post was untrue, I asked you which part was untrue....that's kind of where things stopped for me. What conversation have you been having?

 

[CNiel36]

LOL at "not starting again". What have you 'started' in the first place? You said my post was untrue, I asked you which part was untrue....that's kind of where things stopped for me. What conversation have you been having?

Honestly this whole post feels like a fever dream. I feel like I am taking crazy pills over here. But speaking with you has that effect on peeps.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

Some People talk about how great P. Manning was....however, when one looks at the $$$ games, his W-L record is mediocre.

Hence, the question " What about his post season record
(meaning W-L record....sorry if that wasn't clear)"?
Not ...."postseason passer rating ".



So use of different types of colloquialisms, slang and / or aphorisms are unreadable?

Funny thing, Bears' fans would consistently defend past Bears' QB's saying the record is a reflection of the team, not QB. Then when speaking of non-Bears' QB's, record or even just post season record is what they ignorantly draw on first. Did Peyton Manning make the Colts a better team than they would have been without him? Absolutely. He, alone, meant many more wins every season. Took a mediocre team and made them better. Made them a perennial playoff team for over a decade, something they would not have been close to if they had just an average QB.

Idiots, like you, want to lessen this remarkable accomplishment by saying he sucked in the post season and should have won more SBs. He didn't suck in the post season. His team just lacked more of the all around talent the better teams had but, still he took them much farther than they could have gone without him. Virtually carried the franchise on his back for 11 years. No sane, objective person would downplay that.

 

[Omeletpants]

Nitwits, once again, if championships is the ultimate measure of greatness than Yogi Berra is the greatest athlete of all time cause he has the most

 

[run and shoot]

Funny thing, Bears' fans would consistently defend past Bears' QB's saying the record is a reflection of the team, not QB. Then when speaking of non-Bears' QB's, record or even just post season record is what they ignorantly draw on first. Did Peyton Manning make the Colts a better team than they would have been without him? Absolutely. He, alone, meant many more wins every season. Took a mediocre team and made them better. Made them a perennial playoff team for over a decade, something they would not have been close to if they had just an average QB.

Idiots, like you, want to lessen this remarkable accomplishment by saying he sucked in the post season and should have won more SBs. He didn't suck in the post season. His team just lacked more of the all around talent the better teams had but, still he took them much farther than they could have gone without him. Virtually carried the franchise on his back for 11 years. No sane, objective person would downplay that.

Call me a "Idiot". Thats cool.
Still All this talk about how great P. Manning was is misplaced.

One has to look at his total body of work.....including the playoffs. YES ! He was a great regular season Qb. Again.....YES ! He was a great regular season Qb.

HOWEVER, when teams i.e. N.E. had a couple weeks to game plan (during the playoffs) for what the Colts were doing on "O", they stopped them in the process frustrating Manning. IT'S A FACT

(P. Manning ).....Virtually carried the franchise on his back for 11 years.

Don't you think that statement is a slap in the face to players like..... Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, Reggie Wayne, Center Jeff Saturday, OL Tarik Glenn ( that whole OL was great at giving Manning time) , TE Dallas Clark , Kicker Adam Vinatieri , LB Gary Brackett, Tim Jennings, Dwight Freeney, Brandon Stokley just to name a few?



You might want to also check out the article below, b4 u make the "carried the franchise on his back for 11 years"....statement.

Click it.....
Peyton Manning Had the Best Offensive Teammates Among Top Top Quarterbacks in 2000's;
----------------

Funny thing, Bears' fans would consistently defend past Bears' QB's saying the record is a reflection of the team, not QB.

No, I do not defend....we've had some pitiful Qb's.....plain & simple.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Honestly this whole post feels like a fever dream. I feel like I am taking crazy pills over here. But speaking with you has that effect on peeps.

I really, really do not understand what on earth you are talking about. Why does it feel like a "fever dream"? Does asking you to clarify your statements regarding Peyton Manning send you into convulsions? If so, that would explain your inability to provide insight.

But I guess its tragic that you are physically unable to simply discuss football, as you choose to spend time on a forum that exists for discussing football. I remember back in the 1980's the Broncos had an offensive lineman who was allergic to grass, which was unfortunate because he was a football player. Made me think of you. Thoughts and prayers.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Don't you think that statement is a slap in the face to players like..... Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James, Joseph Addai, Reggie Wayne, Center Jeff Saturday, OL Tarik Glenn ( that whole OL was great at giving Manning time) , TE Dallas Clark , Kicker Adam Vinatieri , LB Gary Brackett, Tim Jennings, Dwight Freeney, Brandon Stokley just to name a few?



You might want to also check out the article below, b4 u make the "carried the franchise on his back for 11 years"....statement.

Click it.....
Peyton Manning Had the Best Offensive Teammates Among Top Top Quarterbacks in 2000's;
----------------

The way you proactively "unformat" your postings is beyond terrible. Please stop.

You bring up an interesting point...that Tom Brady's accomplishments are superior to Peyton Manning's because Manning had LB Gary Brackett while Brady did not. I definitely never thought about it like that.

I think Harrison and Wayne would have been above-average WRs had they played on another team, but Manning made them elite. Those guys weren't physical freaks, nor did they create a 'mismatch' on the field. They were smart enough to find openings in the defense, and Manning always got them the ball. Edgerrin James was a great RB before he got hurt, but Manning kept him productive for 4 additional seasons. So much of the Colts success was due to Manning reading the opposing defense and figuring out what would work.

 

[run and shoot]

donovan-mcnabb-had-the-worst Offensive Teammates

The way you proactively "unformat" your postings is beyond terrible. Please stop.

You bring up an interesting point...that Tom Brady's accomplishments are superior to Peyton Manning's because Manning had LB Gary Brackett while Brady did not. I definitely never thought about it like that.

I think Harrison and Wayne would have been above-average WRs had they played on another team, but Manning made them elite. Those guys weren't physical freaks, nor did they create a 'mismatch' on the field. They were smart enough to find openings in the defense, and Manning always got them the ball. Edgerrin James was a great RB before he got hurt, but Manning kept him productive for 4 additional seasons. So much of the Colts success was due to Manning reading the opposing defense and figuring out what would work.

Thank you noticing....Yes.....LB Gary Brackett was clearly one of players that had a prominent role in the Colts success.

You bring up an interesting point...that Tom Brady's accomplishments are superior to Peyton Manning's

Actually, my focus was solely on Peyton Manning . Others brought up the Brady comparisons. IMO....that's for another thread.

Moreover, my comments were focus on Spartan's assertion ........
Spartan said: "(P. Manning ).....Virtually carried the franchise on his back for 11 years. "

My point was..... NO, P. Manning had help from the aforementioned players, who were very good and deserve respect.
--------

I think Harrison and Wayne would have been above-average WRs had they played on another team, but Manning made them elite.

I have to respectfully disagree. Harrison is HOF, and Wayne was a excellent, smart wr. Many Qb's woulda gave their non-throwing arm to have wr's like Harrison & Wayne.
Look where they were drafted ( they were totally expected to perform at a very high level and they did).

And you can be sure these wr's helped the running a lot and Manning.

Oh....and don't forget that elite OL Manning had for protection.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I have to respectfully disagree. Harrison is HOF, and Wayne was a excellent, smart wr. Many Qb's woulda gave their non-throwing arm to have wr's like Harrison & Wayne.
Look where they were drafted ( they were totally expected to perform at a very high level and they did).

Everything else in your post is nonsense, but I wanted to focus on the Harrison/Wayne aspect.

First, I say Manning made Harrison elite, you say "no, Harrison is HOF". Good stuff. Second, I know this is strictly opinion on my part, but lets be real here:

*2010, Colts win division with Manning at QB...Harrison had retired a couple years ago (yet Manning still throws for 4700 yards/33 TDs in a Pro Bowl year...go figure, huh?) but Wayne is 1st team All Pro with 111 receptions for 1355 yards. In 2011, Manning is injured, Colts go 2-14 in his absence (not carrying the franchise, though), and Wayne still leads the team in receiving but with a 75-960-4 statline that earns him no accolades. So yeah, Wayne was a pretty good WR, but Manning made him elite.

*Marvin Harrison's seasons before Peyton Manning's big 2nd year: 64-836-8. 73-866-6, 59-776-7. Nice numbers, not elite. Harrison's production with an elite Manning: 115-1663-12, 102-1413-14, 109-1524-15, 143-1722-11, etc.

*Harrison tailed off in his last two years, 20-247-1 and 60-636-5. Manning's numbers those two seasons 4000+ yards, 30+ TDs, 98 rating, 4000+ yards, 27 TDs, 95 rating. Hmm.

 

[run and shoot]

Everything else in your post is nonsense, but I wanted to focus on the Harrison/Wayne aspect.

First, I say Manning made Harrison elite, you say "no, Harrison is HOF". Good stuff. Second, I know this is strictly opinion on my part, but lets be real here:

*2010, Colts win division with Manning at QB...Harrison had retired a couple years ago (yet Manning still throws for 4700 yards/33 TDs in a Pro Bowl year...go figure, huh?) but Wayne is 1st team All Pro with 111 receptions for 1355 yards. In 2011, Manning is injured, Colts go 2-14 in his absence (not carrying the franchise, though), and Wayne still leads the team in receiving but with a 75-960-4 statline that earns him no accolades. So yeah, Wayne was a pretty good WR, but Manning made him elite.

*Marvin Harrison's seasons before Peyton Manning's big 2nd year: 64-836-8. 73-866-6, 59-776-7. Nice numbers, not elite. Harrison's production with an elite Manning: 115-1663-12, 102-1413-14, 109-1524-15, 143-1722-11, etc.

*Harrison tailed off in his last two years, 20-247-1 and 60-636-5. Manning's numbers those two seasons 4000+ yards, 30+ TDs, 98 rating, 4000+ yards, 27 TDs, 95 rating. Hmm.

I'd have to look it up, didn't Harrison get injured. Plus, he was at the end of his career. I'd have to look up who else Manning was throwing too. ( OH.... 1st rounders Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark
and Anthony Gonzalez ). BTW, I used bold for emphasis on their
level of talent.

Everything else in your post is nonsense, but I wanted to focus on the Harrison/Wayne aspect.

nonsense?? You brought up......
Rory Sparrow said:
You bring up an interesting point...that Tom Brady's accomplishments are superior to Peyton Manning's
--
Ok so I corrected you on the Brady reference and I told u
I originally responded to the OP. click & see post>>>#74

In 2011, Manning is injured, Colts go 2-14 in his absence (not carrying the franchise, though), and Wayne still leads the team in receiving but with a 75-960-4 statline that earns him no accolades.

But Rory, LOL, you, you failed to point out that Curtis Painter was the Qb. Don't ya think Wayne should get accolades
just bcuz he almost reached 1000yds. with Painter ( who got benched in favor of the great Dan Orlovsky ) I italicized Orlovsky to show sarcasm.
------

Look I get it, Manning was a outstanding Qb. I said it several times that he was a great regular season Qb. My only beef is that the "greatness" didn't really transfer to the post-season. Take a look at the pedestrian #'s in his post-season losses.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

I'd have to look it up, didn't Harrison get injured. Plus, he was at the end of his career.

What does that have to do with anything? Yes, Harrison was injured and at the end of his career, and Peyton Manning was still throwing for 4000/30...so I'm not sure how that negates my point?

( OH.... 1st rounders Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark
and Anthony Gonzalez ). BTW, I used bold for emphasis on their
level of talent.

OK, I can kind of snicker at Manning didn't carry the Colts because of Gary Brackett...but Anthony Gonzalez? He was a HUGE bust! Couldn't even play in the NFL despite having Peyton Manning throwing passes to him. He was like Dane Sanzenbacher with a 1st round price tag.

But Rory, LOL, you, you failed to point out that Curtis Painter was the Qb. Don't ya think Wayne should get accolades
just bcuz he almost reached 1000yds. with Painter ( who got benched in favor of the great Dan Orlovsky ) I italicized Orlovsky to show sarcasm.

Wayne DIDN'T get accolades as I already pointed out in my previous posting! What is wrong with you? Yes, Curtis Painter was Wayne's QB for half the year, then Orlovsky and Kerry Collins (1st round pick!)...and none of those guys are Peyton Manning and Wayne's production went from elite to above-average. That was my whole point. Again, you are merely repeating what I've already said and pretending it somehow negates my point. I don't get it.

Look I get it, Manning was a outstanding Qb. I said it several times that he was a great regular season Qb. My only beef is that the "greatness" didn't really transfer to the post-season. Take a look at the pedestrian #'s in his post-season losses.

Peyton Manning, Norm Van Brocklin...only two QBs to win titles with different NFL franchises. Won a SB with 23rd-rated defense (Gary Brackett, tho).

 

[run and shoot]

What does that have to do with anything? Yes, Harrison was injured and at the end of his career, and Peyton Manning was still throwing for 4000/30...so I'm not sure how that negates my point?



OK, I can kind of snicker at Manning didn't carry the Colts because of Gary Brackett...but Anthony Gonzalez? He was a HUGE bust! Couldn't even play in the NFL despite having Peyton Manning throwing passes to him. He was like Dane Sanzenbacher with a 1st round price tag.

R&S response:
But you failed to mention...
"In Gonzalez's first year, he caught 37 passes for 576 yards and 3 touchdowns.
The following season Gonzalez caught 57 passes for 664 yards and 4 touchdowns
In 2010, Gonzalez lost the starting wide receiver position due to missing the 2009 season being on injured reserve. "
---------


Wayne DIDN'T get accolades as I already pointed out in my previous posting! What is wrong with you? Yes, Curtis Painter was Wayne's QB for half the year, then Orlovsky and Kerry Collins (1st round pick!)...and none of those guys are Peyton Manning and Wayne's production went from elite to above-average. That was my whole point. Again, you are merely repeating what I've already said and pretending it somehow negates my point. I don't get it.

R&S response:
So basically I was saying Wayne deserved "accolades" for almost hitting 1000yds. with below avg. qb's. Yeah, I know he didn't get any "formal accolades" .


You said:
"Again, you are merely repeating what I've already said and pretending it somehow negates my point. I don't get it."

R&S response:
And what did my last paragraph say about Manning in post >>#76 ?




Peyton Manning, Norm Van Brocklin...only two QBs to win titles with different NFL franchises. Won a SB with 23rd-rated defense (Gary Brackett, tho).

Click expand to see my other responses.

Peyton Manning, Norm Van Brocklin...only two QBs to win titles with different NFL franchises. Won a SB with 23rd-rated defense (Gary Brackett, tho).

You will find my response for Manning's 2 SB's if you click post
>>> #54

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Click expand to see my other responses.





You will find my response for Manning's 2 SB's if you click post
>>> #54

I see you are still formatting your posts into the most unreadable style possible. I guess congratulations should be in order, since I just went over the content of your posting. 99% of it is absolute and total nonsense. Its like you have no idea what the conversation has been...you are trying to mitigate statements that were originally outlandish.

Peyton Manning "choked" in the postseason, yet still won titles for two different franchises? Is that even possible? You linked to an article that incredibly claims that Peyton Manning had the best offensive teammates of any QB this century, and here I am several postings later having to listen to you cite Anthony Gonzalez's statistics? What world are you from?

Anthony Gonzalez was a questionable pick from the start. He had a decent career at OSU, but was the 2nd or 3rd receiving option behind Santonio Holmes and Ted Ginn Jr. Gonzalez's last year in college was his best by far, and it was a 51-734-8 slashline. Sanzenbacher had a 55-948-11 slashline a couple seasons later, and went undrafted.

I remember Gonzalez not seeing the field at all to start his rookie year, but then Harrison went out for the year with injury and the Colts were forced to start him. He was OK, but nothing special. The next year, an injured 36 year old Harrison was put back in the starting lineup because Gonzalez was so "blah", and the Colts used Gonzalez as the WR3...again, he was OK in that role. When Gonzalez himself got hurt in 2009, the Colts offense exploded because his absence gave more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie (remember him?), who were much more dynamic.

So I was wrong to call Gonzalez a huge bust, as he did have two mildly productive seasons, but in the context of using Gonzalez's name as support that Manning had the best offensive teammates of any 21st century QB, I stand by my original statement.

 

[run and shoot]

I see you are still formatting your posts into the most unreadable style possible. I guess congratulations should be in order, since I just went over the content of your posting. 99% of it is absolute and total nonsense. Its like you have no idea what the conversation has been...you are trying to mitigate statements that were originally outlandish.

Peyton Manning "choked" in the postseason, yet still won titles for two different franchises? Is that even possible? You linked to an article that incredibly claims that Peyton Manning had the best offensive teammates of any QB this century, and here I am several postings later having to listen to you cite Anthony Gonzalez's statistics? What world are you from?

Anthony Gonzalez was a questionable pick from the start. He had a decent career at OSU, but was the 2nd or 3rd receiving option behind Santonio Holmes and Ted Ginn Jr. Gonzalez's last year in college was his best by far, and it was a 51-734-8 slashline. Sanzenbacher had a 55-948-11 slashline a couple seasons later, and went undrafted.

I remember Gonzalez not seeing the field at all to start his rookie year, but then Harrison went out for the year with injury and the Colts were forced to start him. He was OK, but nothing special. The next year, an injured 36 year old Harrison was put back in the starting lineup because Gonzalez was so "blah", and the Colts used Gonzalez as the WR3...again, he was OK in that role. When Gonzalez himself got hurt in 2009, the Colts offense exploded because his absence gave more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie (remember him?), who were much more dynamic.

So I was wrong to call Gonzalez a huge bust, as he did have two mildly productive seasons, but in the context of using Gonzalez's name as support that Manning had the best offensive teammates of any 21st century QB, I stand by my original statement.

I see you are still formatting your posts into the most unreadable style possible. I guess congratulations should be in order, since I just went over the content of your posting. 99% of it is absolute and total nonsense. Its like you have no idea what the conversation has been...you are trying to mitigate statements that were originally outlandish.

Stop using formatting as a excuse. Maybe you need glasses. I went in and addressed your points( all I said was click the "expand" link. I was trying to make it easy for u to read my points along with your assertions/comments)

"nonsense."? It's funny, when somebody lays out factual info. that doesn't corroborate with your point of view, then it's "nonsense."
I guess it's "nonsense" that Gonzalez was on IR. So no he wasn't a bust.

I guess it's "nonsense" that Reggie Wayne almost reached 1000yds, working with 3 slug Qb's.
Point here is even w/o Manning, Wayne was able almost pull 1000yrds. outta' 3 slug Qb's. It's a testimony to Wayne's, dare I say "greatness".
---------

Its like you have no idea what the conversation has been.

....the Colts offense exploded because his absence gave more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie (remember him?), who were much more dynamic.

Ok so if you say "the Colts offense exploded " with the absence of Gonzalez and "more PT to Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie", then that means Manning had help. Thanks for bringing these 2 wr's to my attention. I forgot about how Pierre Garcon and Austin Collie played a vital role in Manning's success.

And that's what this is all about....Manning had lots of help from
decent to HOF players supporting him.
And that's the idea and/ or point to this conversation.
So NO, there's no "mitigation" of anything.
-----------

Peyton Manning "choked" in the postseason, yet still won titles for two different franchises? Is that even possible?

You will find my response for Manning's 2 SB's if you click post
>>> #54

Also take a look at Mannings stats in lost postseason games.
And his stats for the 2 SB's. (I know how u like to toss stats around)