Wild Guess - Stephen Denmark at safety

[Bearly]

squad

One of the points I am making is that the Bears approach to building a team is to identify a handful of key players and commit massive resources by way of draft picks and salary to get them. Then they build their roster by getting 30 to 40 UDFAs and 6th and 7th round picks and find 4 diamonds in the rough. By diamond in the rough I mean key contributor and not necessarily a pro bowl apperance. That said, they literally can't afford to let a promising prospect get taken. They just don't have the picks to sustain such a loss. Unless Denmark is a total trainwreck no way he ends up on practice squad.

Everybody would do that for a QB and pass rusher they are convinced about. Pulling it off is the more unique part.

 

[MDB111™]

squad

One of the points I am making is that the Bears approach to building a team is to identify a handful of key players and commit massive resources by way of draft picks and salary to get them. Then they build their roster by getting 30 to 40 UDFAs and 6th and 7th round picks and find 4 diamonds in the rough. By diamond in the rough I mean key contributor and not necessarily a pro bowl apperance. That said, they literally can't afford to let a promising prospect get taken. They just don't have the picks to sustain such a loss. Unless Denmark is a total trainwreck no way he ends up on practice squad.

I think you are over thinking one itty bitty 7th rounder who may not even make the team. the spot will be filled regardless. My hope is they found a diamond and then there won't be any "stashing" because he will be on the active roster and playing.
What everyone is trying to tell you is that is doubtful.

 

[Bearly]

Whyte is going to bring at least 8 big plays this year. Mark my words.

I feel like averaging one big play every other game is a good measurement for such a low round pick.

I'm qualifying a big play here as a play of more than 15 yards where he makes more than one person miss OR beats someone with speed. Denmark is probably going to the PS and will be safe there until we have right of first refusal.

Edit - so like, following blockers on a screen, or taking a dumpoff for a first down and getting dropped by the first guy aren't "big plays" for my prediction

With Whyte it's also about not being a boom or bust on every play. He doesn't have much shake so lots of his success with have to do with scheme and OL play. Fortunately, it looks like our OL will be solid this year.

 

[Rory Sparrow]

Can't put Denmark on practice squad cuz he will get snatched up.

" Obi-Wan Kenobi? Obi-Wan. Now there's a name I've not heard in a long, ... I haven't gone by the name Obi-Wan since, oh, before David Fales was snatched up from the practice squad."

 

[Bearin' Down]

So, he takes McManiss' spot? Michael Joseph and John Franklin are done?

No on McManis. He's taking reps at safety too, so they may keep him there.

As to the two UDFAs you mention (one of which was on the roster for less than half the season), I don't know about "done," but the bears have certainly invested more in Denmark than them and I'm confident Denmark will make the roster. If that means either of them don't, then they yeah.

 

[Chicago4Life]

Just for comparison here's his measurables compared to DK Metcalf who some consider among the best athlete testing ever:

Metcalf 40 time=4.33, Bench press 27 reps, vertical 40.5", Broad jump 134", 3 cone 7.38 secs, 20 yd shuttle 4.5.

Denmark 40 time=4.46, Bench press 19 reps, vertical 43.5", Broad jump 130", 3 cone 7.4 secs, 20 yd shuttle 4.27.

Point being, he's not Metcalf, but he's not that far from him either. They're both about same height and weight.

Here's Greedy Williams' numbers, top corner selected in 2019 draft:

Williams 40 time=4.37, Bench press 8 reps, vertical 36", Broad jump 124"

another comparison in terms of measurables
jadeveon clowney 6'6, 266lbs , 40 - 4.53, bench - 21 reps, vertical - 37.5", broad - 124"
cornelius washington 6'5, 265lbs, 40 - 4.55, bench - 36 reps, vertical - 39", broad - 128"

measurables are nice and all but football ability/instinct plays a big part and denmark is about as raw as they come, he will be on the P/S.

 

[greg23]

Anyone counting on o expecting anything from this kid this year is nuts.

Barring injuries his path to making the 53 man roster (let alone 46 suiting up) is slim to none.

I'd be happy to see a glimpse of potential and have him stashed on the practice squad all year to develop for a year; which should be the reasonable expectation.

 

[Bearin' Down]

Combine, pro-days, and visits should only be used as supplementary information. Your opinions should be based off of actual game tape. Then you should use 40 times or 3 come drills or whatever to see if it helps remove any lingering questions (or if you can work on something that the players system didn't really allow them to put on tape). That's it. RAS scores are irrelevant if you aren't watching the tape.

 

[pinkfloydster]

Combine, pro-days, and visits should only be used as supplementary information. Your opinions should be based off of actual game tape. Then you should use 40 times or 3 come drills or whatever to see if it helps remove any lingering questions (or if you can work on something that the players system didn't really allow them to put on tape). That's it. RAS scores are irrelevant if you aren't watching the tape.

He's a good tackler on the minimal tape that is out there. Unless they laundered his missed tackles, I would say he's a natural. I don't care what anybody says, you can't teach tackling in one year.

Still, there are many important question marks to decide whether he makes the team.

 

[pinkfloydster]

Anyone counting on o expecting anything from this kid this year is nuts.

Barring injuries his path to making the 53 man roster (let alone 46 suiting up) is slim to none.

I'd be happy to see a glimpse of potential and have him stashed on the practice squad all year to develop for a year; which should be the reasonable expectation.

We are debating can he become a key contributor 2 years from now...something like Roy Robertson Harris, Rashaad Coward (supposedly he's ready to fill in). What Ben Braunecker SHOULD be able to do this year, Kevin Toliver next year.

 

[gallagher]

We are debating can he become a key contributor 2 years from now...something like Roy Robertson Harris, Rashaad Coward (supposedly he's ready to fill in). What Ben Braunecker SHOULD be able to do this year, Kevin Toliver next year.

Yeah but didn't all those guys spent time on the practice squad? I don't have the time to check. You've been arguing for him to start off on the active roster, which means you have to expect a contribution in his first year or he's a waste of a spot.

 

[Bearly]

He's actually arguing in oblong circles.

 

[Sculpt]

Just for fun, thought I would toss at a crazy speculation. Stephen Denmark will be a Bears safety. First off, his measurables are insane. But that is basically all the information we have. Tape is sparse. The Bears are deep at cornerback with a handful of UDFAs competing for the final roster spot. Safety, on the other hand, isn't so deep. In the end, I think Denmark has the rare athleticism to possibly break up an over the shoulder pass to the wide receiver if he makes a quick read. That would be rare.

I kind of doubt they switch him to Safety. They like his measurables for CB, and there's lingering speculation Bears are itching to drop Prince because of money (something I don't agree with). I'm sure Denmark can play FS too, but I don't see reason for a flip at this point.

I also don't know I see more room at Safety. Although I agree with you that signing Dix was an indication Bears weren't sold on Bush or DHC, that doesn't mean they think these two entering their 4th season are trash. On the contrary, even though many think Dix is sure to leave after this season (also something I disagree with), Bears didn't draft a Safety.

I think Pace was just grabbing intriguing talent with ST ability. And Denmark will most likely compete as CB & end up on the PS. But fair chance he looks good in ST & CB and makes the team -- he has an edge as a draft pick.

 

[pinkfloydster]

I don't see anything where Roy Robertson Harris was on the practice squad (he may have been, just don't see it). Coward was on the practice squad as a defensive lineman, not his current position. To my knowledge, as an offensive lineman, Coward was never on the practice squad. Tolliver, to my knowledge, was never on practice squad. Braunecker was on the practice squad.

 

[pinkfloydster]

He's actually arguing in oblong circles.

You do realize the Bears have traded away a lot of draft picks? Simple mathematical rules that can never be broken, like "addition" and "subtraction" require that the Bears make up the shortfall. Here are their options:

1) Hope their current players discover the fountain of youth.
2) Sign really crappy free agents at a discount.
3) Find hidden gems

Of the three that doesn't require fairy tails coming true or that will make the Bears sucks is option 3, finding hidden gems. It's inconceivable that Ryan Pace would not know this.

 

[Sculpt]

squad

One of the points I am making is that the Bears approach to building a team is to identify a handful of key players and commit massive resources by way of draft picks and salary to get them. Then they build their roster by getting 30 to 40 UDFAs and 6th and 7th round picks and find 4 diamonds in the rough. By diamond in the rough I mean key contributor and not necessarily a pro bowl apperance. That said, they literally can't afford to let a promising prospect get taken. They just don't have the picks to sustain such a loss. Unless Denmark is a total trainwreck no way he ends up on practice squad.

If he's a 'total trainwreck' then he wouldn't even make the PS... which is usually more of a character issue. It's not an either or. He may play decent ST but just not far enough along in coverage skills by the 53-cut date, in which case he'd go PS.

I don't see anything where Roy Robertson Harris was on the practice squad (he may have been, just don't see it). Coward was on the practice squad as a defensive lineman, not his current position. To my knowledge, as an offensive lineman, Coward was never on the practice squad. Tolliver, to my knowledge, was never on practice squad. Braunecker was on the practice squad.

RRH was placed on the reserve/non-football illness list, where he spent his entire rookie season (redshirted).

 

[gallagher]

You do realize the Bears have traded away a lot of draft picks? Simple mathematical rules that can never be broken, like "addition" and "subtraction" require that the Bears make up the shortfall. Here are their options:

1) Hope their current players discover the fountain of youth.
2) Sign really crappy free agents at a discount.
3) Find hidden gems

Of the three that doesn't require fairy tails coming true or that will make the Bears sucks is option 3, finding hidden gems. It's inconceivable that Ryan Pace would not know this.

So you do know that those draft picks weren't just given away, but traded? That's neither addition not subtraction, that's more like the transitive property. We received value and made good on it.

You're stressing about virtual nobodies who are unlikely to earn a professional snap in a meaningful game. You're stressing about a backup's backup's backup. So lemme break it down for ya

1) our current players need not discover the fountain of youth. Most of our players are on the younger side of 30.
2) those crappy free agents at a discount have proven that they belong at the NFL level. 7th round picks and undrafted free agents haven't.
3) we don't need to find hidden gems anywhere but kicker and tight end.

Seriously, the fairy tale is the diamond in the rough 7th rounder staying with the team that drafted him for more than a few years. We have a good, young roster with decent backups at most positions. There isn't a shortfall that needs to be addressed. Maybe you feel like that because having no first rounder was boring this year.

 

[pinkfloydster]

So you do know that those draft picks weren't just given away, but traded? That's neither addition not subtraction, that's more like the transitive property. We received value and made good on it.

They were traded...but the number of players we get in return always seem to be less than the players we give up. Pace probably does make up some ground in that those players are less likely to be cut. But it doesn't make up for the shortfall. So, it's still addition and subtraction.

You're stressing about virtual nobodies who are unlikely to earn a professional snap in a meaningful game. You're stressing about a backup's backup's backup. So lemme break it down for ya

The overwhelming majority of late round picks and UDFAs will not be key contributors. So, in that sense you are right. Still, the Bears have managed, thus far, to find a 3 to 4 diamonds in the rough each year. It's a vital part of their team building.

2) those crappy free agents at a discount have proven that they belong at the NFL level. 7th round picks and undrafted free agents haven't.

Why develop Bryce Callahan when you can get a discount cornerback? You must have really loved RW McQuarters...your kind of player.

Seriously, the fairy tale is the diamond in the rough 7th rounder staying with the team that drafted him for more than a few years.

Oh yea, Charles Leno, Bryce Callahan, and Roy Robertson Harris last year was really a figment of my imagination.

We have a good, young roster with decent backups at most positions. There isn't a shortfall that needs to be addressed. Maybe you feel like that because having no first rounder was boring this year.

I am not talking this year. I am talking over the horizon of years. I am assuming Ryan Pace likes being employed. So, if he has a good team for a couple of years and then they go back to sucking, then he will be less likely to find a good job.

 

[pinkfloydster]

RRH was placed on the reserve/non-football illness list, where he spent his entire rookie season (redshirted).

Was he still protected at that point?

 

[gallagher]

They were traded...but the number of players we get in return always seem to be less than the players we give up. Pace probably does make up some ground in that those players are less likely to be cut. But it doesn't make up for the shortfall. So, it's still addition and subtraction.



The overwhelming majority of late round picks and UDFAs will not be key contributors. So, in that sense you are right. Still, the Bears have managed, thus far, to find a 3 to 4 diamonds in the rough each year. It's a vital part of their team building.



Why develop Bryce Callahan when you can get a discount cornerback? You must have really loved RW McQuarters...your kind of player.



Oh yea, Charles Leno, Bryce Callahan, and Roy Robertson Harris last year was really a figment of my imagination.



I am not talking this year. I am talking over the horizon of years. I am assuming Ryan Pace likes being employed. So, if he has a good team for a couple of years and then they go back to sucking, then he will be less likely to find a good job.

On your first point, you argue the quantity of draft picks, which is equatable to quantity of players brought in. We arent having trouble filling up our roster, as it's already damn good and we don't have many spots to hold onto everyone. Otherwise there would be no argument for stashing Denmark on the practice squad. So this point amounts to nothing.

Your second point is has nothing to argue but adds to the first point, in that each draft Pace has outperformed expectations in the middle rounds. Drafting well is part of building a good team, that's why it was good to trade draft picks to select better players higher in the draft. Or are you second guessing that we traded up to get Miller?

Your third point is Callahan vs McQ. In the 2001-2003 drafts, no CBs were taken that lasted long in the NFL, and I'd venture to say that McQ was better than all of them. Feel free to double check, since I glanced through the names, but it was mostly nobodies and never-was players.

Your next point was on Leno, RRH and Callahan. Leno is a good player, Callahan has been replaced no problemo, and RRH is a backup who has shown up in spurts. But you didn't even talk to my point. A veteran player is more likely to be helpful to your team than a 7th rounder. I mean, we signed HaHa, he's a free agent veteran on his third team, and he'll make more of an impact for us than Denmark ever will. I don't even know who you were talking about needing to find the fountain of youth but good players are staying in the league longer than ever before.

And finally, you restate your timeline to be over the course of years. I don't know why you have your undies in a knot over this, because Pace and Nagy are more likely to lose their jobs because Trubisky doesn't pan out. No seventh rounder will make up for that. And if trading those picks to get better players works out, then our team isn't worse off for it, and this becomes a non-issue.



I remember you were just talking about how you were more comfortable with the odds of roulette because it's so close to 50/50. You do know that low round draft picks have horrid odds of being impactful, right? They come along every now and then and that makes for a good story, but you're more impacted by success or failure in the first several rounds than in the last couple.

EDIT - I also wanted to throw in that the guys we traded picks to get, Trubisky, Mack and Miller, are going to be the biggest (except Miller I guess) reasons we have success to begin with. So if we can't sustain it due to lack of draft picks, then thems the breaks. We wouldn't be in the position we are in now had we not made those trades.