Your Expectations for Trubisky this season....

onebud34

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Hence why Dilfer is on the low end of the scale and Brady on the high end. Further the determination is not based on just one game.

Once again, in the first Super Bowl Year, Brady threw for 312, 115, and 145 yards for an average of 190 yards a game in the playoffs. He had one decent game throwing the ball and 2 games where he was sub par yards wise. Further in the one game he did throw for 312 yards, he threw the ball 52 times and managed only 16 points. It was not some great passing performance but dinking and doinking to little effect. The dude actually only had 90 yards passing before the last drive that won the Super Bowl against the Rams. He literally went over 3 and a half quarters with less than 100 yards passing.

And no this was not an anomaly like your 300 yard game. I also already pointed out that in 2001 Brady averaged 189 yards per game passing in the regular season. Is 189 yards passing the hallmark of a gunslinger? He had 8 starts where he didn't crack 200 yards so once again that is game manager stats. You are trying to cherry pick one game which was only his 2nd game in 17 starts where he cracked 300 yards. Only 3 out of 17 games did he manage over 250 yards. Not sure why you are confused that if a dude is getting 250 yards or less for 14 out of 17 starts that mostly likely he is a game manager. You can cherry pick a game or two where he threw more but the fact is he was dinking and doinking for very little yards for the majority of the season.

Thanks for showing us that "not playoff worthy offenses" can win Super Bowls.
 

Bearly

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The problem is that we argue to try and come to some common ground understanding and to possibly gain a bit of insight. Remy avoids that to be able to defend some arbitrary position (that will move if required to maintain talking points) that he can argue because he enjoys the debate more than he cares about the content.
 

Rory Sparrow

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They won 3 SBs with Brady as largely a game manager. In between they missed the playoffs when he led league in TDs. If you want to claim that in his non playoff year he was not a game manager then good for you.

This is a new one. I like how when your entire flimsy argument breaks down, your only rebuttal is to say "then good for you".

You say that Tom Brady was a game-manager comparable to Trent Dilfer early in his career, and after every aspect of your debate has been shot down, all that you can hang your hat on is that Brady's season in which he led the NFL in TDs and was third in pass attempts (gunslinger!) happened in 'his non playoff year'. HUH? That's quite a stretch in logic, even for your typical remydat reasoning.
 

run and shoot

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The problem is that we argue to try and come to some common ground understanding and to possibly gain a bit of insight. Remy avoids that to be able to defend some arbitrary position (that will move if required to maintain talking points) that he can argue because he enjoys the debate more than he cares about the content.

.I gotta agree with this analysis. mark it- 4-17-19
 

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jesus_thumbs250.jpg
 

remydat

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This is a new one. I like how when your entire flimsy argument breaks down, your only rebuttal is to say "then good for you".

You say that Tom Brady was a game-manager comparable to Trent Dilfer early in his career, and after every aspect of your debate has been shot down, all that you can hang your hat on is that Brady's season in which he led the NFL in TDs and was third in pass attempts (gunslinger!) happened in 'his non playoff year'. HUH? That's quite a stretch in logic, even for your typical remydat reasoning.

Never said they were comparable. Sorry.

No I am hanging my hat on the fact leading the league in TDs in one year doesnt change the fact you were a game manager in another year.

Do you think Brady gets to add TDs and yards from his league leading year to the years he threw for under 200 yards a game in the playoffs?

I am also hanging my hat on the fact Brady all but acknowledged being a game manager early in his career. I posted the article and you ignored it several times.
 
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remydat

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The problem is that we argue to try and come to some common ground understanding and to possibly gain a bit of insight. Remy avoids that to be able to defend some arbitrary position (that will move if required to maintain talking points) that he can argue because he enjoys the debate more than he cares about the content.

The problem is I provided numerous articles where numerous people including Brady himself considered Brady a game manager.

Should I pretend Brady did not embrace the title to make you guys feel better?
 

Rory Sparrow

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No I am hanging my hat on the fact leading the league in TDs in one year doesnt change the fact you were a game manager in another year.

So, the ship is veering back into "Early in his career" waters. Cool.

You've already established your lunacy in regards to Brady's "game manager" postseason of 2001...the first game Brady goes 32 of 52 (Dilfer has 35 completions in 4 postseason games for the 2000 Ravens...low end of the scale comparability, tho) which you throw out as an 'anomaly', the second game Brady gets injured midway through the game and you gleefully point to his sub-200 passing yardage total...failing to mention anything about Brady's injury (among the laundry list of stupid things in this thread, that ranks up near the top), which leaves us with Brady's Super Bowl against the Rams. Somewhat of a 'limited scope', don't you think?

My question to you is this: a QB has played 19 seasons. Would his first full season as a starter qualify as "early in his career"?
 

remydat

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So, the ship is veering back into "Early in his career" waters. Cool.

You've already established your lunacy in regards to Brady's "game manager" postseason of 2001...the first game Brady goes 32 of 52 (Dilfer has 35 completions in 4 postseason games for the 2000 Ravens...low end of the scale comparability, tho) which you throw out as an 'anomaly', the second game Brady gets injured midway through the game and you gleefully point to his sub-200 passing yardage total...failing to mention anything about Brady's injury (among the laundry list of stupid things in this thread, that ranks up near the top), which leaves us with Brady's Super Bowl against the Rams. Somewhat of a 'limited scope', don't you think?

My question to you is this: a QB has played 19 seasons. Would his first full season as a starter qualify as "early in his career"?

You are lying Rory. Already told you low end of scale was in refetence to guys run and shoot brought up not Brady.

Brady averaged less than 200 yards that whole season Rory not just the playoffs. 8 out of 17 games that season below 200 yards and yards per game of less than 200 yards averaged that year is not limited scope. It is his whole season.

If someone averages less than 200 yards passing for entire season, do you consider that guy a gunslinger?

Also please address Brady's comments.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Also please address Brady's comments.

As I've already said multiple times already in this very thread, Brady is inconsequential. The issue is YOUR definition of "game manager", and YOUR definition of "early in his career", both of which are wonky.

I don't really consider "Mut and Callahan" or whatever it was that you quoted to supersede decades of statistics (i.e. "reality"), but if Brady considers himself a "game manager", then three things should be noted: 1) good for him 2) it doesn't change two decades worth of statistics 3) Brady's definition of "game manager" probably doesn't mean "I was comparable to Trent Dilfer".

But this has already been hashed/rehashed in Post #185

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!
 

remydat

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As I've already said multiple times already in this very thread, Brady is inconsequential. The issue is YOUR definition of "game manager", and YOUR definition of "early in his career", both of which are wonky.

I don't really consider "Mut and Callahan" or whatever it was that you quoted to supersede decades of statistics (i.e. "reality"), but if Brady considers himself a "game manager", then three things should be noted: 1) good for him 2) it doesn't change two decades worth of statistics 3) Brady's definition of "game manager" probably doesn't mean "I was comparable to Trent Dilfer".

But this has already been hashed/rehashed in Post #185

Also, I like how you've completely glossed over your Trent Dilfer/Tom Brady comp, which was the whole impetus for my posting. Brady completed 32 passes in his first playoff game as a game manager. In Dilfer's 4 playoff games as the Ravens game manager QB, he completed a total of 35 passes. So in one game Brady completed almost as many passes as Dilfer did in 4 games. Great comp!

Early in career doesnt mean decades. No one ever said he and Dilfer were comparable. I side with Brady on this one over random dude on internet.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Early in career doesnt mean decades. No one ever said he and Dilfer were comparable. I side with Brady on this one over random dude on internet.

then good for you

They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially. The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes. Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.
 

remydat

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then good for you

Already explained this to you in post 245

We definitely do.

I've listed the type of Qb's I consider game manager. Brady and Wilson never fell into those categories. Go back and take a look at some of the Qb's I listed.

I saw who you listed. They are just on the low end of the scale but doesnt mean Wilson and Brady were not game managers initially. The determination is based on how the teams played IMO which was play great D and limit mistakes. Wilson and Brady just executed better than guys like Dilfer.

The above is not saying Brady is on the low end of the scale. It is saying the guys Run and Shoot listed are on the low end of the scale which doesn't mean that Brady and Wilson were not game managers. Dilfer is on the low end of the scale (let's say 1) and Brady and Wilson are on high end of scale hence me saying they are much better so let's say 10. Someone who is graded as a 1 is not comparable to someone who is graded as a 10.

It is really disingenuous to just cut and paste a post and leave off a sentence that explains who is being referred to. You have spent pages creating a false narrative that I said Brady was a low end game manager when the opposite is true.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Already explained this to you in post 245

which doesn't mean that Brady and Wilson were not game managers.

Is English your second language? I love it when people unnecessarily use double negatives.

Tom Brady and Russell Wilson are not on the same scale as Trent Dilfer, nor are they game mangers in a comparable way to Trent Dilfer.
 

remydat

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Is English your second language? I love it when people unnecessarily use double negatives.

Tom Brady and Russell Wilson are not on the same scale as Trent Dilfer, nor are they game mangers in a comparable way to Trent Dilfer.

Your point here is dumb. If I say grade a QB 1 to 10 then all QBs can be graded and a QB graded 1 is not comparable to a QB graded 10.

Care to explain why you chose to leave off a part of the sentence that explained who I was referring to? For someone going on about English, I would think you should understand the importance of reading the entire statement to discern meaning.
 

Rory Sparrow

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Your point here is dumb. If I say grade a QB 1 to 10 then all QBs can be graded and a QB graded 1 is not comparable to a QB graded 10.

Care to explain why you chose to leave off a part of the sentence that explained who I was referring to? For someone going on about English, I would think you should understand the importance of reading the entire statement to discern meaning.

I quoted your posting. What more do you want from me?

So, if I am understanding you correctly...your whole point is that EVERY QB is on this hypothetical "game manager QB scale"...so what is the point in using the term "game manager QB" if every QB is a "game manager"? I don't get it. Why not just have a "QB scale"?

I have an amp...it goes to 11.
 

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