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Thread: Harold Baines in the HOF is a confirmed JOKE

  1. #23
    4th Generation Gaggler Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    I wish Lefty was still here to defend this shit enshrinement when he was pissed Andre Dawson got in
    On another forum Lefty threatened to shoot a poster's child in the face.
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    All-Star Rory Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    On another forum Lefty threatened to shoot a poster's child in the face.
    That could be a positive, though...who was the other poster?

  3. #25
    v. 2.0: Fully Modded FirstTimer's Avatar
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    Umm What?

    Details.

  4. #26
    All-Star Rory Sparrow's Avatar
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    Another interesting list...

    Players on the current HOF ballot with more bWAR than Harold Baines (38.7):

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Walker
    Rolen
    Ramirez
    Halladay
    Jones
    Helton
    Sheffield
    Pettitte
    Sosa
    Rivera
    Kent
    McGriff
    Berkman
    Oswalt
    Tejada
    Vizquel
    Polanco

  5. #27
    4th Generation Gaggler Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    Umm What?

    Details.
    Lefty can be....abrasive when he thinks he is right. I believe this was after Sandy Hook, and on this forum there were a number of posters with (at the time) younger posters. It was your typical gun rights/laws debate when he came out with the idea of him just going off and shooting a poster's 5 year old in the face.

    @TonyMontana can probably give a better description of events than I.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    Another interesting list...

    Players on the current HOF ballot with more bWAR than Harold Baines (38.7):

    Bonds
    Clemens
    Mussina
    Schilling
    Walker
    Rolen
    Ramirez
    Halladay
    Jones
    Helton
    Sheffield
    Pettitte
    Sosa
    Rivera
    Kent
    McGriff
    Berkman
    Oswalt
    Tejada
    Vizquel
    Polanco
    Any of them #1 at retirement at their position like Harold was?
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    All-Star dennehy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Any of them #1 at retirement at their position like Harold was?
    DH shouldn't really even count as a position. It's for guys who aren't equipped to play anywhere else, meaning the hitting bar should be even higher for them. Baines' hitting wouldn't even get him in as a good fielding OF. And there are only half as many DHs as other positions.

    Baines signed your ball and made you cry. That's not really reason for him to get into the HOF.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dennehy View Post
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    DH shouldn't really even count as a position. It's for guys who aren't equipped to play anywhere else, meaning the hitting bar should be even higher for them. Baines' hitting wouldn't even get him in as a good fielding OF. And there are only half as many DHs as other positions.

    Baines signed your ball and made you cry. That's not really reason for him to get into the HOF.
    1) My stories are just that - stories. Anyone thinking that it's anything but is ill.
    2) It's an actual position in the game, so yes being the best at an actual position in the game deserves the hall
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Any of them #1 at retirement at their position like Harold was?
    Baines was not the top DH of all time when he retired.

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) My stories are just that - stories. Anyone thinking that it's anything but is ill.
    2) It's an actual position in the game, so yes being the best at an actual position in the game deserves the hall
    Baines was not the top DH of all time when he retired. He was maybe the 4th best.

  11. #33
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    Updated thread title for accuracy.

  12. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    Lefty can be....abrasive when he thinks he is right. I believe this was after Sandy Hook, and on this forum there were a number of posters with (at the time) younger posters. It was your typical gun rights/laws debate when he came out with the idea of him just going off and shooting a poster's 5 year old in the face.

    @TonyMontana can probably give a better description of events than I.
    Surprised he took time away from playing video games in his mom's basement(true story..not made up) to post that.

  13. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) My stories are just that - stories. Anyone thinking that it's anything but is ill.
    2) It's an actual position in the game, so yes being the best at an actual position in the game deserves the hall
    I was hoping you were making an emotional argument because from a logical perspective it's just profoundly stupid.

    Even if Baines was the best DH when he retired, and that is far from clear, it's a very poor metric for entrance into the HOF. The first player who retired at each position should get in. And then say he wasn't very good, then the next guy who retires should too. Potentially you've got 3 or 4 of the first 10 who retire at each position in by this metric. Who was the best DH before Baines? Before him? They're both in, even if they aren't really that good.

    Makes no sense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dennehy View Post
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    I was hoping you were making an emotional argument because from a logical perspective it's just profoundly stupid.

    Even if Baines was the best DH when he retired, and that is far from clear, it's a very poor metric for entrance into the HOF. The first player who retired at each position should get in. And then say he wasn't very good, then the next guy who retires should too. Potentially you've got 3 or 4 of the first 10 who retire at each position in by this metric. Who was the best DH before Baines? Before him? They're both in, even if they aren't really that good.

    Makes no sense.
    Baines was clearly the best DH. Edgar was no where close at the time Baines retired. The change of this title is childish and inappropriate.

    The Hall of Fame didn't exist until 1936. So yes, they do at times go back and induct folks. And that is a good thing.

    The DH started in 1973. Once you had a player qualify for the Hall yes, the best should be put in. What are your suggestions at DH prior to Baines?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Baines was clearly the best DH. Edgar was no where close at the time Baines retired. The change of this title is childish and inappropriate.

    The Hall of Fame didn't exist until 1936. So yes, they do at times go back and induct folks. And that is a good thing.

    The DH started in 1973. Once you had a player qualify for the Hall yes, the best should be put in. What are your suggestions at DH prior to Baines?
    Whoever was the first DH to retire should be in by your logic, doesn't matter who because he was the best when he retired and the best when he became eligible. Same with every other position. And probably a few more who retired shortly after the first one unless by some weird chance the first was a really good player.

    Do you really not understand how dumb that is?

    Also Edgar Martinez was far and away better than Baines when he Baines retired.

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    All-Star Rory Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Any of them #1 at retirement at their position like Harold was?
    You never heard of Barry Bonds?

  17. #39
    All-Star dennehy's Avatar
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    There's also the obvious idea that DHs don't play the field. Why should they only be compared to other DHs, when they are essentially first basemen or left fielders who aren't good enough to play the field? Only half of the teams use them, weakening the field substantially. And players aren't judged based solely against those who played the same position.

    It's obvious why Baines was never close to getting into the HOF in the normal way. He's probably my second favorite player of all time, but it's beyond clear that he's a hall of very good level player.

  18. #40
    All-Star Rory Sparrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dennehy View Post
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    There's also the obvious idea that DHs don't play the field. Why should they only be compared to other DHs, when they are essentially first basemen or left fielders who aren't good enough to play the field? Only half of the teams use them, weakening the field substantially. And players aren't judged based solely against those who played the same position.
    Yes, it would be like having candidates for CCS Hall of Fame class of 2019, and one of the candidates is much weaker than the others but is described as being "the best poster in the CCS White Sox Forum".

  19. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    Yes, it would be like having candidates for CCS Hall of Fame class of 2019, and one of the candidates is much weaker than the others but is described as being "the best poster in the CCS White Sox Forum".
    CCS Hall of Fame: An Honor only bestowed on the very most worthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dennehy View Post
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    Whoever was the first DH to retire should be in by your logic, doesn't matter who because he was the best when he retired and the best when he became eligible. Same with every other position. And probably a few more who retired shortly after the first one unless by some weird chance the first was a really good player.

    Do you really not understand how dumb that is?

    Also Edgar Martinez was far and away better than Baines when he Baines retired.
    Edgar was not at DH. That's the discussion.
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    4th Generation Gaggler Gustavus Adolphus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    Surprised he took time away from playing video games in his mom's basement(true story..not made up) to post that.
    Apparently his youtube channel does pretty well.
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  22. #44
    All-Star dennehy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Edgar was not at DH. That's the discussion.
    So better players who play the field should not get in ahead of worse DHs simply because they were DHs (best at the time they retire). This is pretty much the argument you are making.

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