Pace and Nagy Year End Press Conference

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

modo said:
I think people are confusing aggressive with successful.

The Bears offense was very aggressive at times. It was in the top ten of 20+ yard throws.........

The problem is they just weren't good enough yet to actually execute on that aggressiveness.

Well we are referring to the last half of the season. I think there is also a distinction between aggression and complexity. I think Nagy likes doing a lot of complex things but that can hurt the actual aggression if the players aren't comfortable executing. Again sometimes less is more and I think there were probably times were all the players including Mitch were not as aggressive as they could be because they were hesitant because they play call was not something they had mastered.

Edit - Just checked and Bears were tied for 1st with 31 pre-snap penalties on offense.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2018

Rory Sparrow · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
I don't disagree with much of the above. The issue I have is 8-14 on 3rd down and 38 minutes of ToP generally would result in a lot more than 24 points for an actual elite offensive team.

Don't think anyone said the Bears were an elite offensive team. The 24 points was the most the Vikings had given up since Week 11, when they gave up 25 points to...the Bears.

onebud34 · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
I don't disagree with much of the above. The issue I have is 8-14 on 3rd down and 38 minutes of ToP generally would result in a lot more than 24 points for an actual elite offensive team. The offense shows promise and at times can move the ball well but it doesn't convert all of that into points at a rate you would expect. They are not closing out their opportunities IMO and that falls on Nagy to fix.

I think this is your issue when debating...you aren't aware that the Vikings led the league on 3rd down conversions going into that game...or that the 24 points were the highest point total at home since the NO game. Or that they led the league in sacks...and were unable to get to Trubisky. Plus they were able to run the ball right down the heart of the Vikings defense. If there was any issue I had with the offensive playcalling in the Eagles game (besides the 2 point conversion) was that they didn't effectively establish the run early on...or ever.

WindyCity · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
Who rides a defense to wins when you have a shitty placekicker? That is a dumb strategy as inevitably defensive games tend to result in having to use your kicker. And yes he probably still gets criticized but again if I am going to get shit, I prefer getting shit playing my game not someone else's. Relying on the D is Lovie's game. Should not have been Nagy's.

There is no argument for the idiocy of keeping Parkey as the kicker.

Personally, that falls more on Ryan Pace in my world as that contract is horrendous.

Relying on the defense in year 1 is different than relying on it in year 10.

WindyCity · Jan 17, 2019

Rory Sparrow said:
Don't think anyone said the Bears were an elite offensive team. The 24 points was the most the Vikings had given up since Week 11, when they gave up 25 points to...the Bears.

Context is always king.

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

onebud34 said:
I think this is your issue when debating...you aren't aware that the Vikings led the league on 3rd down conversions going into that game...or that the 24 points were the highest point total at home since the NO game. Or that they led the league in sacks...and were unable to get to Trubisky. Plus they were able to run the ball right down the heart of the Vikings defense. If there was any issue I had with the offensive playcalling in the Eagles game (besides the 2 point conversion) was that they didn't effectively establish the run early on...or ever.

No I am aware as it was mentioned repeatedly in the game. However, the point was we obviously played well on 3rd down ie 8-14 and dominated ToP but we still only ended up with only 24 points.

onebud34 · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
No I am aware as it was mentioned repeatedly in the game. However, the point was we obviously played well on 3rd down ie 8-14 and dominated ToP but we still only ended up with only 24 points.

So you don't understand context when debating?

wazzupi · Jan 17, 2019

WindyCity said:
Because in the scenario they were in they could ride the defense to wins. It worked for 4/5 games and should have worked in the 5th game. The game in 2018 was never offense, it wasn't going to be offense, they were in the first year of building the offense. Nagy told you in his introductory press conference that the offense wasn't going to carry them and it was a process.

When the pressure/stakes went up he leaned on the best unit on the team. He leaned on a dominant defense and not an inconsistent offense.

I can guarantee if they had stayed aggressive and lost to the Packers, Vikings, or Eagles because of turnovers then people would be killing him for not getting out of the way of the defense.

The result sucked, so either approach would be criticized.

Why are you explaining football to this guy he is delusional.

Gustavus Adolphus · Jan 17, 2019

Rory Sparrow said:
Don't think anyone said the Bears were an elite offensive team. The 24 points was the most the Vikings had given up since Week 11, when they gave up 25 points to...the Bears.

Oops.

WindyCity · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
No I am aware as it was mentioned repeatedly in the game. However, the point was we obviously played well on 3rd down ie 8-14 and dominated ToP but we still only ended up with only 24 points.

The appropriate amount of points should be determined by the opponent.

24 points against the Vikings is a good total.

24 points against the Bucs is not a good total.

Otherwise we are arbitrarily setting an acceptable point total for an offense based on what?

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

WindyCity said:
There is no argument for the idiocy of keeping Parkey as the kicker.

Personally, that falls more on Ryan Pace in my world as that contract is horrendous.

Relying on the defense in year 1 is different than relying on it in year 10.

The issue is Nagy knew we kept Parkey. So he has to play the hand he was dealt and the hand he was dealt included Parkey. So he needed to adjust for that in his whole relying on D plan. He knew he had Parkey but yet wasted a fuck ton of time on the last drive. The O was not prepared to run plays quickly and had to burn a TO. He managed the game as if he had a clutch kicker waiting to win the game instead of managing the game clock to allow for a TD chance.

WindyCity said:
The appropriate amount of points should be determined by the opponent.

24 points against the Vikings is a good total.

24 points against the Bucs is not a good total.

Otherwise we are arbitrarily setting an acceptable point total for an offense based on what?

I think the appropriate amount of points should be determined by the actual situations in the game. They had for example a 3rd & 7 conversion at midfield eliminated by penalty and then couldn't convert on the 3rd and 12. Also couldn't convert a 3rd and 1 at the Minny 23 when they ran the great Benny Cunningham for minus yards. These things didn't matter obviously in the end but they do represent missed opportunities for more points.

onebud34 said:
So you don't understand context when debating?

Yes and the context as noted above is that they left points on the field.

WindyCity · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
The issue is Nagy knew we kept Parkey. So he has to play the hand he was dealt and the hand he was dealt included Parkey. So he needed to adjust for that in his whole relying on D plan. He knew he had Parkey but yet wasted a fuck ton of time on the last drive. The O was not prepared to run plays quickly and had to burn a TO. He managed the game as if he had a clutch kicker waiting to win the game instead of managing the game clock to allow for a TD chance.

I think the appropriate amount of points should be determined by the actual situations in the game. They had for example a 3rd & 7 conversion at midfield eliminated by penalty and then couldn't convert on the 3rd and 12. Also couldn't convert a 3rd and 1 at the Minny 23. These things didn't matter obviously in the end but they do represent missed opportunities for more points.

Yes and the context as noted above is that they left points on the field.

The defense is going to make some plays. The Vikings have a very good defense that is why teams do not convert all of their opportunities for points.

The Bears converted more opportunities for points than most teams.

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

WindyCity said:
The defense is going to make some plays. The Vikings have a very good defense that is why teams do not convert all of their opportunities for points.

The Bears converted more opportunities for points than most teams.

A holding penalty that negates a 25 yard play is not the D making plays. Choosing to run Benny Cunningham instead of Howard is not on the D. Choosing to use Mizzell so much is not on the D. Not managing the game clock well is not on the D.

Are these things that get cleaned up next year? Maybe. But I am not talking about next year. I am not saying Nagy is terrible or that he can't improve. I am simply saying these were the things that helped derail our efforts this year. He makes curious personnel decisions, he has the team run plays they clearly don't appear to have mastered, and he is on Lovie or Fox's level when it comes to game management. These are the flaws in his genius that he will need to correct going forward.

onebud34 · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
Yes and the context as noted above is that they left points on the field.

So, no, you don’t understand context.

Even if you’re trying to play devils advocate here...you’re coming across as a complete idiot.

Spunky Porkstacker · Jan 17, 2019

onebud34 said:
So, no, you don’t understand context.

Even if you’re trying to play devils advocate here...you’re coming across as a complete idiot.[/QUOTE]

That needs an XL tube of vagisil.

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

onebud34 said:
So, no, you don’t understand context.

Even if you’re trying to play devils advocate here...you’re coming across as a complete idiot.

If I am mistsken about the dumb personnel decisions and points left on field then let me know. Until then not sure why I should accept Benny Cunningham as the best RB on 3rd and 1.

modo · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
Well we are referring to the last half of the season. I think there is also a distinction between aggression and complexity. I think Nagy likes doing a lot of complex things but that can hurt the actual aggression if the players aren't comfortable executing. Again sometimes less is more and I think there were probably times were all the players including Mitch were not as aggressive as they could be because they were hesitant because they play call was not something they had mastered.

Edit - Just checked and Bears were tied for 1st with 31 pre-snap penalties on offense.

http://www.nflpenalties.com/phase.php?year=2018

How are yopu defining aggression here...

Aggressive play calling was being debated here. Not whether they were successful or not....You said the Bears weren't aggressive as advertised and then said that the play calling hurt the Bears ability to be aggressive athletically on each play...those are two different things.

remydat · Jan 17, 2019

modo said:
How are yopu defining aggression here...

Aggressive play calling was being debated here. Not whether they were successful or not....You said the Bears weren't aggressive as advertised and then said that the play calling hurt the Bears ability to be aggressive athletically on each play...those are two different things.

Agree those are 2 separate things and I was discussing both.

Windy's point was towards end of season, Nagy rode the D and was less aggressive.

I think there is some merit to that but also possible that he called aggressive plays but the team didnt execute. I think for the 1st half of the Eagles for example hard to distinguish his being conservative vs QB not pulling trigger because they hesitated. Adi had a thread where he showed instances where the play was there for the QB to make but he didnt make it.

So think both are at play and it is a question of which people think had more of an impact.

didshereallysaythat · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
A holding penalty that negates a 25 yard play is not the D making plays. Choosing to run Benny Cunningham instead of Howard is not on the D. Choosing to use Mizzell so much is not on the D. Not managing the game clock well is not on the D.

Are these things that get cleaned up next year? Maybe. But I am not talking about next year. I am not saying Nagy is terrible or that he can't improve. I am simply saying these were the things that helped derail our efforts this year. He makes curious personnel decisions, he has the team run plays they clearly don't appear to have mastered, and he is on Lovie or Fox's level when it comes to game management. These are the flaws in his genius that he will need to correct going forward.

That holding penalty was a horrible call. Even Buck and Aikman said so and they usually dog on the Bears.

modo · Jan 17, 2019

remydat said:
A holding penalty that negates a 25 yard play is not the D making plays. Choosing to run Benny Cunningham instead of Howard is not on the D. Choosing to use Mizzell so much is not on the D. Not managing the game clock well is not on the D.

Are these things that get cleaned up next year? Maybe. But I am not talking about next year. I am not saying Nagy is terrible or that he can't improve. I am simply saying these were the things that helped derail our efforts this year. He makes curious personnel decisions, he has the team run plays they clearly don't appear to have mastered, and he is on Lovie or Fox's level when it comes to game management. These are the flaws in his genius that he will need to correct going forward.

Mizzell got 9 carries the entire season

Pace and Nagy Year End Press Conference

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