The 3rd and 4th Round

WindyCity

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With the Bears doing their key draft work in the 3rd and 4th round of the draft this year I decided to look and see if there was any real difference between teams success in each round. I looked at the 2014, 15, and 16 drafts to see whether you saw an appreciable difference between the quality of the players that came out of those rounds.

Some of the labeling of the players was very subjective but this is how I did it,

Elite: perhaps not an All Pro or even Pro Bowl player, but a productive starter, or someone who has been given a significant contract or extension. Elite in relation to the rounds they were picked in. Example: OLB Za'Darius Smith was graded as an elite 4th round pick, coming off an 8.5 sack season, and about to sign a big deal with someone.

Good: This is a player that starts, but is not as productive, or someone who is a starting calibre player that may be backing up on the drafting team because of circumstance. Example: WR John Brown who has been productive and is a locked in starter, but not a big time difference maker.

Bad: Someone who is not a starter or developing potential starter, or someone who has already been released or changed teams for minor money or compensation. Example: Deinodre Hall, special teamer only and has been traded for a 7th round pick.


2014

3rd [34]

Elite: 3 [9%]
Good: 11 [32%]
Bad: 20 [59%]

4th [40]

Elite: 2 [5%]
Good: 15 [37.5%]
Bad: 23 [57.5%]

2015

3rd [35]

Elite: 4 [11%]
Good: 11 [32%]
Bad: 20 [57%]

4th [37]

Elite: 4 [11%]
Good: 8 [22%]
Bad: 25 [67%]

2016

3rd [35]

Elite: 6 [17%]
Good: 12 [34%]
Bad: 17 [49%]


4th [40]

Elite: 2 [5%]
Good: 20 [50%]
Bad: 18 [45%]

3rd Round

Elite: 12%
Good: 33%
Bad: 55%


4th Round

Elite: 7%
Good: 37%
Bad: 56%


Observations


There really is not an observable difference between the 3rd and 4th round in terms of the starting calibre talent that comes out of them, or the failure rate across all positions.
There is a noticeable difference in the likelihood that you are drafting an elite/difference making player. The 3rd round had a much better percentage of very good players.
Both rounds are about 50/50 in terms of getting a starting quality player.
 

WindyCity

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3rd and 4th Round by Position

Positions by Volume Picked

QB: 9/221 [4%]
RB: 24/221 [11%]
WR: 25/221 [11%]
TE: 10/221 [4.5%]
OL: 44/221 [20%]
DL: 28/221 [13%]
Edge: 18/221 [8%]
LB: 20/221 [9%]
DB: 43/221 [19.5%]

*The 3rd and 4th rounds are OL and DB heavy rounds. Both are pretty much double the next closest positions.

Good and Elite/Picks at the position

QB: 2/9 [22%]
RB: 13/24 [54%]
WR: 11/25 [44%]
TE: 6/10 [60%]
OL: 15/44 [34%]
DL: 13/28 [46%]
Edge: 7/18 [39%]
LB: 13/20 [65%]
DB: 17/43 [40%]

*LB and TE seem to be the safest pick, although TE is a very small sample size and volume of players.
*OL and Edge are the riskiest, non QB, positions to pick, perhaps that is due to the rush in the first 2 rounds at both positions.
*RB is a plus pick at this point of the draft and is one of the 3 positions that does not dip below 50%.

Elite/Picks at the Position

QB: 1/9 [11%]
RB: 5/24 [21%]
WR: 1/25 [4%]
TE: 1/10 [10%]
OL: 5/44 [11%]
DL: 1/28 [3.5%]
Edge: 4/18 [22%]
LB: 2/20 [5%]
DB: 1/43 [2.3%]


*While your percent chance of picking a good OLmen are not great, the percentage chance that if you do he is going to be an upper echelon starter is higher than other positions.
*There were not many edges picked, there were not a lot of good ones, but the ones that were picked produced some seriously talented rushers. Danielle Hunter, Yannick Ngaouko, Trey Flowers, Za'Darius Smith.
*DB craters as there was only 1 really top end player in Kevin Byrad. So while you can get solid starting level talent it is harder to find the big time difference maker at this position. The same goes for WR where Tyler Lockett was the only upper echelon player.
 

WindyCity

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Position By Round [Failure Rate]

This data is compiled from the 2014, 15, and 16 drafts.

RB

3rd: 4/10 [40%]
4th: 6/11 [55%]

*This is a pretty steady position where I think you observe a pretty natural attrition to the talent pool.

TE

3rd: 3/6 [50%]
4th: 2/3 [66%]

*Another position that holds pretty steady as the natural attrition of talent happens.
*A very small sample size to judge.


OL

3rd: 13/23 [52%]
4th: 14/18 [78%]

*This is a big disparity and the success rate between OLmen drafted in the 3rd and 4th round was large.
*The 4th round looks like a barren waste land of OL talent based on this analysis.
*4/5 of the upper echelon players were picked in the 3rd round.

Edge

3rd: 7/11 [63%]
4th: 4/7 [57%]

*This surprised me, there was more failure for edge rushers in the 3rd round than there was in the 4th round.
*I think this is due to the fact that the 3rd round seems to be the left over of the top 10 lists and in the 4th round you start to see more athletic upside projections.
*Elite players were split 2 in each round.

DB


3rd: 11/16 [69%]

4th: 16/28 [57%]


*Another position with a higher failure rate in the 3rd round, this time even more of a drastic difference.
 

BEARSWAGGER

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Can you grade the Bears draft to see howPace has done compared to the rest of the league?
 

CaptnSUG

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Pace has crushed it. Don't need stats to tell me that.
 

WindyCity

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Pace is weird, it is the reverse of the big picture for the league.

Pace has down incredibly well in the 5th round batting 3/4 when most of the league has a 33% batting average at finding starting players.

The one that he failed on, Jordan Morgan, seems to fit with the trend of low hit rates on day 3 OLmen.

He is about average in the 4th round, but way above the elite player numbers with Cohen and Jackson.

Worse in the 3rd round, but he has only made 2 picks.
 

CaptnSUG

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Pace is weird, it is the reverse of the big picture for the league.

Pace has down incredibly well in the 5th round batting 3/4 when most of the league has a 33% batting average at finding starting players.

The one that he failed on, Jordan Morgan, seems to fit with the trend of low hit rates on day 3 OLmen.

He is about average in the 4th round, but way above the elite player numbers with Cohen and Jackson.

Worse in the 3rd round, but he has only made 2 picks.

He's gotten two all-pro's in four years worth of fourth round picks. Not to mention solid players like Kwiatkowski, Bush and Iggy. Even the most conspicuous fourth round bust was Langford who still contributed to the team in a positive way for one year.
 

PrideisBears

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Pace has crushed it. Don't need stats to tell me that.

Just about to say that. Pace seems to do better after the 2nd round
 

WindyCity

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I think this has also given me an appreciate of comp picks and how good teams use them to stay good.

Of a good team is hitting on 60% of their 4th round picks, so a little above league average, by adding 2-3 comp picks a year they’re essentially adding a bonus 2 starters on cheap rookie deals.

It will be even more important as we enter tighter cap years for Pace to maintain his success in rounds 4 and 5 specifically.
 

CaptnSUG

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I think this has also given me an appreciate of comp picks and how good teams use them to stay good.

Of a good team is hitting on 60% of their 4th round picks, so a little above league average, by adding 2-3 comp picks a year they’re essentially adding a bonus 2 starters on cheap rookie deals.

It will be even more important as we enter tighter cap years for Pace to maintain his success in rounds 4 and 5 specifically.

Massie, Amos, Callahan and Lynch are all going to contribute quite favorably to the 2020 draft.
 

WindyCity

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Paces worst round has been the 3rd round. It is the round where he has been below the league average, unless you count Bullard as a starting caliber NFL player.

Perhaps that is why he was not as concerned with the 3rd round comp in the Trubisky trade.
 

WindyCity

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Massie, Amos, Callahan and Lynch are all going to contribute quite favorably to the 2020 draft.


The Bears could be loaded with comp picks.

I don’t expect Pace’s insane 75% hit rate in the 5th round to continue, but even if he starts going 50/50 he is above league average and the Bears should hopefully maintain there depth.
 

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Nice to have a reality check for those that expect every 3rd rounder to be a bonafide starter and GMs bums if they miss. After the second round you're more likely to miss than hit.
 

CaptnSUG

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Paces worst round has been the 3rd round. It is the round where he has been below the league average, unless you count Bullard as a starting caliber NFL player.

Perhaps that is why he was not as concerned with the 3rd round comp in the Trubisky trade.

Bullard is a starting caliber NFL player on defensive unit that is loaded with starting caliber NFL players. People are going to be a little surprised at the attention he gets as a free agent.
 

dabears70

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Outside of Shaheen he has done really well in the 2nd round.

Pace should put Shaheen on a trade block just to see what kind of interest there would be in him or if he could get a decent offer for him. I think just like Howard, Shaheen just doesn't fit what Nagy wants in a TE in his system. There was interest in him during the draft just 2 years ago but Pace obviously really liked the kid and took him a little higher then he was expected to go so maybe a team still sees something in him and would trade for him. Shit supposedly there's a lot of talk about Gronk retiring after this season so maybe even BB would have some interest. I also haven't given up on him like some have and think if he could just stay healthy that he could be a productive starting TE in the right system.
 

KittiesKorner

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you mean a TE who doesn't concuss himself on a 2-point conversion?

BEARS
 

dabears70

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Bullard is a starting caliber NFL player on defensive unit that is loaded with starting caliber NFL players. People are going to be a little surprised at the attention he gets as a free agent.

Ummmmmm not so sure i'd call him starting caliber.
 

CaptnSUG

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Pace should put Shaheen on a trade block just to see what kind of interest there would be in him or if he could get a decent offer for him. I think just like Howard, Shaheen just doesn't fit what Nagy wants in a TE in his system. There was interest in him during the draft just 2 years ago but Pace obviously really liked the kid and took him a little higher then he was expected to go so maybe a team still sees something in him and would trade for him. Shit supposedly there's a lot of talk about Gronk retiring after this season so maybe even BB would have some interest. I also haven't given up on him like some have and think if he could just stay healthy that he could be a productive starting TE in the right system.

Maybe a sixth. Selling low is typically not a great practice.
 

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