Great Teams Win Despite Bad Calls............

Is it going to be like this until next season starts?

I can see where OP is coming from in that the Saints cannot really rationally say they lost because of the refs directly ...

but bad calls are a big factor in the outcome of games. And not all bad calls are equal to summarily conclude "great teams overcome bad calls".

Parity tightens each team so that a SB winning team is not that much far ahead than others, so keeping that context in mind:

the refs DID spot the Rams an extra possession. That IS a huge factor. This isn't a miss early in the 1st quarter or something. This means something huge and the game deservedly has an ignoble asterisk on it.

On the one hand, it is illogical for Saints fans to say the refs GAVE the Rams the game, that's not quite true, but it is also unfair to say to the Saints fans that they had every opportunity to win after the bad call ... because one would be basically agreeing that the refs extended the Rams' life and spotted them an extra possession. And THEN saying that the Saints could have STILL won though. While true, it doesn't negate the fact that the refs DID spot the Rams the extra possession.

Payton extended the Rams life by calling two passing plays stopping the clock when the Rams had no timeouts.

Loss is on Payton just as much as the refs. He's a serious crybaby and I'm really starting to despise the saints

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Da Coach said:

Payton extended the Rams life by calling two passing plays stopping the clock when the Rams had no timeouts.

Loss is on Payton just as much as the refs. He's a serious crybaby and I'm really starting to despise the saints

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I disagree. He could not have run out the clock by calling runs instead of those two incomplete passes. He needed a first down to ice the game and leave no time for LA with his kicker to win it for him.

Now you are right that those two incompletions before 3rd down were NOT on the refs, they were on (well whoever idk Payton for a bad call or Brees for a bad read, I have no idea).

But the 3rd down pass was on the refs therefore the refs certainly extended Rams' life and spotted them an extra possession. That is just a fact.

Now it is also a fact that Payton (incidentally) failed to get the first down on the 2 plays previously, but that is irrelevant to what happened with the refs on the 3rd down play.

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:

I disagree. He could not have run out the clock by calling runs instead of those two incomplete passes. He needed a first down to ice the game and leave no time for LA with his kicker to win it for him.

Now you are right that those two incompletions before 3rd down were NOT on the refs, they were on (well whoever idk Payton for a bad call or Brees for a bad read, I have no idea).

But the 3rd down pass was on the refs therefore the refs certainly extended Rams' life and spotted them an extra possession. That is just a fact.

Now it is also a fact that Payton (incidentally) failed to get the first down on the 2 plays previously, but that is irrelevant to what happened with the refs on the 3rd down play.

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I think that scenario/tidbit about the Saints running out the clock isn't really the issue, IMO. If the exercise is to point out missed calls, then the Rams' previous drive had Goff getting facemasked on a 2nd down play from NO's 5 yard line, which would have put the Rams 1st and goal from the 1. Instead, the Rams were left with a 3rd and goal situation, got stopped, and settled for a FG. Had the Rams scored a TD from the 1st and goal situation, they would have been up 24-20 and the Saints would have needed a TD on their non-PI drive.

Delbjork was right. Follow the script. Getting the LA Rams to the big dance will create more Rams fans and boost the ratings in LA.

LA is a wasteland of half-assed Raiders and Cowboys fans. They need to get the Rams fanship up there with the Lakers to churn out the TV ratings.

Rory Sparrow said:

I think that scenario/tidbit about the Saints running out the clock isn't really the issue, IMO. If the exercise is to point out missed calls, then the Rams' previous drive had Goff getting facemasked on a 2nd down play from NO's 5 yard line, which would have put the Rams 1st and goal from the 1. Instead, the Rams were left with a 3rd and goal situation, got stopped, and settled for a FG. Had the Rams scored a TD from the 1st and goal situation, they would have been up 24-20 and the Saints would have needed a TD on their non-PI drive.

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You are not wrong, but there has to be an immediacy factor to the bad call/non-call to the time involved making an event closer to 00:00 greater in weight than events further away from 00:00. Otherwise, every bad call/non-call regarding first downs or no first down would affect the game the same and that doesn't seem true.

eg, in your scenario, you add in a TD where none was before. This introduces the tautology that "if things had been different, then things would be different". So allowing for the bad non-call with Goff to be reversed and keeping everything else the same, then it would also magnify the fact that the Saints would need to burn less clock and then Goff would have no time in which to lead the game-tying possession.

So I think the tidbit about the Saints having the ball in FG range and wanting as little time as possible for LA after the FG attempt is still a big part of this issue.

Outlaw Josey Cutler said:

You are not wrong, but there has to be an immediacy factor to the bad call/non-call to the time involved making an event closer to 00:00 greater in weight than events further away from 00:00. Otherwise, every bad call/non-call regarding first downs or no first down would affect the game the same and that doesn't seem true.

eg, in your scenario, you add in a TD where none was before. This introduces the tautology that "if things had been different, then things would be different". So allowing for the bad non-call with Goff to be reversed and keeping everything else the same, then it would also magnify the fact that the Saints would need to burn less clock and then Goff would have no time in which to lead the game-tying possession.

So I think the tidbit about the Saints having the ball in FG range and wanting as little time as possible for LA after the FG attempt is still a big part of this issue.

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But then you are nitpicking "immediacy", because the facemask non-call was the drive IMMEDIATELY preceding the Saints PI non-call. Unless both teams can possess the ball at the same time, then I'm not sure what "immediacy" argument can be made.

Rory Sparrow said:

But then you are nitpicking "immediacy", because the facemask non-call was the drive IMMEDIATELY preceding the Saints PI non-call. Unless both teams can possess the ball at the same time, then I'm not sure what "immediacy" argument can be made.

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I am not nitpicking anything.

You are nitpicking the use of the word "immediacy". Maybe immediacy may not be the right word.

Bad calls/non-calls that reward or take away first downs closer to the end (00:00) seem weightier than ones farther away but I am not claiming ones farther away are trivial. Nor am I even claiming that the non-call on Goff was any less significant necessarily.

Just saying that the Saints and the clock and the FG attempt would still be issues and if the Saints D still held LA to the FG before the 3rd down non-call PI then the Saints may not even needed to throw but subtract the time it took LA to try and score but settle for a FG the drive before and NO may be able to run out the clock and win.

making the scenario/tidbit about the Saints running out the clock still an issue.

The only way you remove the clock issue is if you change the outcome of the LA drive before it from an LA FG to LA TD. That seems more than just a bad non-call on Goff imo.

And Brees got hit in the face on the pick in OT, and the receiver got pushed by the dback that made the pick, and I’m sure there were probably 10 other calls against one or the other teams. That STILL doesn’t take away from the incredibleness (not a real word) of the non call PI, targeting right in front of 3 refs with zero obstructions to their views.

BearsJR said:

And Brees got hit in the face on the pick in OT, and the receiver got pushed by the dback that made the pick, and I’m sure there were probably 10 other calls against one or the other teams. That STILL doesn’t take away from the incredibleness (not a real word) of the non call PI, targeting right in front of 3 refs with zero obstructions to their views.

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Incredulity. That's the word you are looking for.

Those officials sucked bad, and imo they should be fired or suspended for mandatory re-training or something.