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Thread: Zion vs Barrett

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    All-Star Raskolnikov's Avatar
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    Default Zion vs Barrett

    I look at is this way...

    Do I think both players would succeed around 20ppg without the other guy? Yes, I do. They both appear to be transcendant players playing together.

    But which player benefits more from the presence of the other?


    And I think that answer is obvious given the unique stature and physical "problem" of one of them. Zion should be picked first, he is the automatic double team and defense collapser. His carnage creates broken plays, loose balls, defensive mismatches that Barrett is feasting on.

    I think Barrett is worth the pick, but his 25+ppg and 30 point game streak is a function of a 20ppg player being alongside a generational player and having way more space than he should ever have given his own prowess.

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    I kind of see Oden in Zion, dont know why, soft arms, weak definition, growth spurts to me cause weak bones and joints. You know, a steady pace of growth compared to going from 5'8 in 8th grade to 6'3 as a freshman in high school, just worries me.

    I think either one of them with a different running mate would put up the same numbers. The only question is has any team ever produced the #1 and 2 picks in the NBA draft?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    I think either one of them with a different running mate would put up the same numbers. The only question is has any team ever produced the #1 and 2 picks in the NBA draft?
    Kentucky did with Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoseMVP1 View Post
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    Kentucky did with Anthony Davis and Michael Kidd-Gilchrist.
    was there ever a case where one of them was not a bust?
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    was there ever a case where one of them was not a bust?
    yeah, Barrett and Williamson.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    was there ever a case where one of them was not a bust?
    No, but there's always a first time for everything. I'd actually take it a step further. Going back to 2015 and going down the list(didn't count 2016 on up since they've only had 2 full seasons and can still potentially show vast improvement), I had to go all the way back to 1992 until I found a draft that not 1 one of the top 2 busted, let alone both of them also coming from the same school. Depending on how you look at things, 1994 could be considered good as well but while Glenn Robinson was good, I have much higher expectations for a #1 pick so I consider him to be a bust based on where he was drafted.

    The likelihood that both the #1 and #2 pick from a draft are very good players is extremely slim.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    I kind of see Oden in Zion, dont know why, soft arms, weak definition, growth spurts to me cause weak bones and joints. You know, a steady pace of growth compared to going from 5'8 in 8th grade to 6'3 as a freshman in high school, just worries me.

    I think either one of them with a different running mate would put up the same numbers. The only question is has any team ever produced the #1 and 2 picks in the NBA draft?
    What? Zion is built like a brick shit house with massively strong hands and body. He has a quick jump like Rodman and Barkley and bodies out people. Zion is a grown ass man and a once in a generation freak of an athlete.
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    How will Zion translate to NBA without 3pt shot and is Barrett just another Wiggins/Russell/Fultz type of NCAA disappointment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
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    How will Zion translate to NBA without 3pt shot and is Barrett just another Wiggins/Russell/Fultz type of NCAA disappointment.
    Zion has a 3 point shot. He has to work on it, but it can be effective. Its not no where in his repoitre.

    Barrett is a straight scorer. Guy can create any shot he wants and is super athletic. His issue, in my mind, is team ball. He likes to feed himself. Truly a great talent though

    Also, Cam Reddish is being slept on but he has the best stroke of both of them and is playing the Chris Bosh role right now when he was on the Heat. He is sacrificing for them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    Zion has a 3 point shot. He has to work on it, but it can be effective. Its not no where in his repoitre.

    Barrett is a straight scorer. Guy can create any shot he wants and is super athletic. His issue, in my mind, is team ball. He likes to feed himself. Truly a great talent though

    Also, Cam Reddish is being slept on but he has the best stroke of both of them and is playing the Chris Bosh role right now when he was on the Heat. He is sacrificing for them.
    I agree with all of this. Somehow they don't seem as dominant on a consistent basis as even the Badgley/Carter teams, or some of the undefeated type teams in college basketball history, Calipari teams that ran the regular season table...like Cousins team, or Rose...only to lose in tourney.

    Will be interesting if a couple losses and couple other close games have gotten Dukes attention for Coach K to reach them. I kinda sense they are starting to gel and once Jones comes back and accepts his role as defensive leadership...

    they will be nearly invinciple if Reddish starts stroking the 3 ball.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hammer View Post
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    How will Zion translate to NBA without 3pt shot and is Barrett just another Wiggins/Russell/Fultz type of NCAA disappointment.
    This is the whole problem right in a nutshell. Instead of a team deciding, you know, fuck this big man taking threes bullshit, we are gonna get a beast that nobody in the league has the personnel to defend.

    on this team though, nobody would be passing up shots to get him the ball down low.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SilenceS View Post
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    What? Zion is built like a brick shit house with massively strong hands and body. He has a quick jump like Rodman and Barkley and bodies out people. Zion is a grown ass man and a once in a generation freak of an athlete.
    Last Brick shit house designation I was argued with about was Jaquizz Rodgers on the bears at 5'9 196 pounds when we had a 225 pound Howard on the roster.

    Greg Oden had some definition in his physique in college, Zion has a dough boy body. Once in a generation already happened with Lebron, this would be twice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anotheridiot View Post
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    Last Brick shit house designation I was argued with about was Jaquizz Rodgers on the bears at 5'9 196 pounds when we had a 225 pound Howard on the roster.

    Greg Oden had some definition in his physique in college, Zion has a dough boy body. Once in a generation already happened with Lebron, this would be twice.
    That's the only thing that scares me about Zion. If he comes into the league and doesn't follow a decent diet, he will blow up. Most of him is muscle but he could be a couple of McDonald's meals off from being 400 lbs.

    Not worried about the 3 point shot. He can hit it. He just needs to work on it a little. Kawhi was terrible at shooting 3s in college and now he's one of the best at it.
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    Yeah, like Shaq maybe Zion would best serve a more ready now team, like the bulls if we won lottery.

    I am surprised the Bulls can be this bad with Markenen, Lavine, and Parker. But their supporting cast aren't complimentary, they are just inadaquate replacements

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    Yeah, like Shaq maybe Zion would best serve a more ready now team, like the bulls if we won lottery.

    I am surprised the Bulls can be this bad with Markenen, Lavine, and Parker. But their supporting cast aren't complimentary, they are just inadaquate replacements
    I'll bite: because those 3 are a pile of hot garbage?

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    I feel like Zion is so reliant on his physical ability (much like Blake Griffin early on) that if he doesn't develop an outside game, he won't age gracefully and any major injury could spell disaster.

    Zion could have the higher ceiling if he stays in shape and develops his game, but Barrett feels much more well-rounded and would seem to have the longer peak if he ever hits an elite level.

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    Markenen isn't hot garbage, he is one of the more interesting pieces and most talented basketball players I have ever seen. I think Wendall Carter can be a rich man's Portis and still never be in the talent tier of a Markenen. 3-ball consistently with that length and rare agility...those guys are usually defensive liabilities or can't get to a rebound, but this guy is a legit center in today's style of game, and a dominant PF.

    Lavine isn't trash...lots of SG can't play defense. The idea of putting Parker/Lavine together with a bunch of young players is trash, but the basketball player Lavine has a bright future somewhere in this league.

    Would be a shame if they don't balls up and trade him out though

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    Parker definitely sucks, Lavine is one dimensional but not a terrible player, Markkanen I think is actually a decent player. The three in tandem might be hot garbage, but I'm not sure if that's on them or just how this team was constructed
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    Silicon Valley CA Bears H RacerX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raskolnikov View Post
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    Markenen isn't hot garbage, he is one of the more interesting pieces and most talented basketball players I have ever seen. I think Wendall Carter can be a rich man's Portis and still never be in the talent tier of a Markenen. 3-ball consistently with that length and rare agility...those guys are usually defensive liabilities or can't get to a rebound, but this guy is a legit center in today's style of game, and a dominant PF.

    Lavine isn't trash...lots of SG can't play defense. The idea of putting Parker/Lavine together with a bunch of young players is trash, but the basketball player Lavine has a bright future somewhere in this league.

    Would be a shame if they don't balls up and trade him out though
    Nah, I stand by my statement: on a collective basis, those 3 (Parker, LM, Lavine) as a foundation for an NBA team are hot garbage.

    Parker - will be playing overseas in 2 years

    Lavine - oft injured, no D, volume scorer - the market spoke when he was a FA, no one other than Sac & Chi sniffed around

    LM - one of the most talented players you have ever seen? Wut???? He's tall and is an efficient scorer, good player and good future ahead of him, but you may be severely overvaluing his ability and ceiling.

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