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Thread: MLB /Union discussing drastic rules changes

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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) The change of pitchers isn't that big of a delay.
    It's a 3-5 minute commercial break in the middle of an inning. It's terribly disruptive to the viewing experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    2) The winning percentage has nothing to do with the disadvantages that are built in to InterLeague Play. But don't let that get in your way.
    This is your best one yet. So, there are magical disadvantages against the AL built into interleague play that--somehow--don't manage to manifest themselves in the W/L record despite a 5700-game sample size? Makes sense!

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    The DH in both leagues is way overdue. Once they got rid of the "presidents" of each league (which I believe was before interleague, could be/probably am wrong) they should have instituted it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    It's a 3-5 minute commercial break in the middle of an inning. It's terribly disruptive to the viewing experience.
    Not really. And it's the advertising that brings in the money. So.

    This is your best one yet. So, there are magical disadvantages against the AL built into interleague play that--somehow--don't manage to manifest themselves in the W/L record despite a 5700-game sample size? Makes sense!
    *sigh*

    ok, what's to say that the AL despite the factual disadvantages it has because of the rule of a DH wouldn't be winning more?

    Some facts for you.

    1) The AL has to budget for a DH, the NL does not
    2) The NL gets to have a better lineup in the AL parks by replacing their pitcher. The AL receives no advantage when playing in the AL parks.
    3) The AL loses a member of their lineup in NL parks. The NL suffers no disadvantage.
    4) Finances that the NL does not have to use on a DH gets to be used elsewhere.
    5) The AL has to cover for every position that an NL team has to and a DH.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) The AL has to budget for a DH, the NL does not
    2) The NL gets to have a better lineup in the AL parks by replacing their pitcher. The AL receives no advantage when playing in the AL parks.
    These two seem to be at odds with each other. It stands to reason that since the NL doesn't have to budget for a full year of the DH that the player they choose for that role in IL games wouldn't be as good as the regular DH the AL team who has already budgeted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Not really. And it's the advertising that brings in the money. So.
    YMMV. I find it awful when the broadcast cuts away to car commercials with a late-game bases-loaded situation due to a reliever change.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    *sigh*

    ok, what's to say that the AL despite the factual disadvantages it has because of the rule of a DH wouldn't be winning more?

    Some facts for you.

    1) The AL has to budget for a DH, the NL does not
    2) The NL gets to have a better lineup in the AL parks by replacing their pitcher. The AL receives no advantage when playing in the AL parks.
    3) The AL loses a member of their lineup in NL parks. The NL suffers no disadvantage.
    4) Finances that the NL does not have to use on a DH gets to be used elsewhere.
    5) The AL has to cover for every position that an NL team has to and a DH.
    Setting aside these specious claims, you're missing the forest from the trees. The central point is that if the AL is disadvantaged by interleague play as you claim, why doesn't that disadvantage manifest itself in the actual W/L record? A 5700 game sample of twenty years is a big sample size; it's more than two entire regular seasons worth of games. If what you're arguing is true, there would be obvious evidence of it. So where's the beef?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    YMMV. I find it awful when the broadcast cuts away to car commercials with a late-game bases-loaded situation due to a reliever change.
    Personally, cut out the warmup pitches when the reliever is called from the bullpen. Unless it's following an ejection, you've already been warming up in the pen. No need to cut way for commercial there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    These two seem to be at odds with each other. It stands to reason that since the NL doesn't have to budget for a full year of the DH that the player they choose for that role in IL games wouldn't be as good as the regular DH the AL team who has already budgeted.
    I agree.
    However,
    The lineup of the NL gets better than their everyday lineup. So the NL gains. Cause even when they have the better player at DH compared to the pitcher, the money they used elsewhere when not having to pay for a DH still gets to be used where the AL team does not get such a luxury.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    I agree.
    However,
    The lineup of the NL gets better than their everyday lineup. So the NL gains. Cause even when they have the better player at DH compared to the pitcher, the money they used elsewhere when not having to pay for a DH still gets to be used where the AL team does not get such a luxury.
    Not necessarily because of what you specifically mentioned in your first point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    YMMV. I find it awful when the broadcast cuts away to car commercials with a late-game bases-loaded situation due to a reliever change.



    Setting aside these specious claims, you're missing the forest from the trees. The central point is that if the AL is disadvantaged by interleague play as you claim, why doesn't that disadvantage manifest itself in the actual W/L record? A 5700 game sample of twenty years is a big sample size; it's more than two entire regular seasons worth of games. If what you're arguing is true, there would be obvious evidence of it. So where's the beef?
    1) It's a chess move. I love the matchups.
    2) What's to say that these true advantages removed wouldn't result in a larger win differential? It's not the AL's problem that the NL is not competitive despite it's built in advantages.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    Not necessarily because of what you specifically mentioned in your first point.
    You're saying that replacing the pitcher with a professional hitter doesn't improve the NL lineup?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    You're saying that replacing the pitcher with a professional hitter doesn't improve the NL lineup?
    I'm saying that specifically budgeting for a DH like an AL team does changes the talent pool left over for the NL teams.
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    1) It's a chess move. I love the matchups.
    I get that, but there's no need for commercial breaks, is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    2) What's to say that these true advantages removed wouldn't result in a larger win differential? It's not the AL's problem that the NL is not competitive despite it's built in advantages.
    Again, where's the beef? Show your work, as my old math teachers used to say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    I'm saying that specifically budgeting for a DH like an AL team does changes the talent pool left over for the NL teams.
    I agree. It does allow them to spend more than an AL team on the exact same player thanks to the AL team using some of their budget for a DH
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbeard View Post
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    I get that, but there's no need for commercial breaks, is there?
    It's about money and fans second. Those commercials help us pay less.


    Again, where's the beef? Show your work, as my old math teachers used to say.
    And they would provide you with an example. So if you wouldn't mind, show me what you would like to see?
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    I agree. It does allow them to spend more than an AL team on the exact same player thanks to the AL team using some of their budget for a DH
    Yes, the Cubs can spend more than the A's, Royals, and Rays.
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    I don't mind the 3 hitter minimum if they add the amendment of 3 hitter min or finish an inning.

    I also don't think it takes the chess game out of it. For one they likely replace a BP arm with another bench guy, so the manager just replaces chess pieces.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gustavus Adolphus View Post
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    Yes, the Cubs can spend more than the A's, Royals, and Rays.
    I'm removing the team names from this. I'm speaking strictly from the rules.
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    The AL has a distinct advantage.

    Having an extra every day hitter on your team is that advantage. I also don't see how the money aspect comes into play, as the NL would just use that money for pitching as opposed to investing in an immobile position player.

    The advantage for NL having a hitting pitcher that hits .170 and an A& pitcher hitting .160 is really moot. The advantage comes with AL's 9th hitter, that is likely a professional hitter that will have a much higher .OPS than an NL's handy bench player.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JP Hochbaum View Post
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    The AL has a distinct advantage.

    Having an extra every day hitter on your team is that advantage. I also don't see how the money aspect comes into play, as the NL would just use that money for pitching as opposed to investing in an immobile position player.

    The advantage for NL having a hitting pitcher that hits .170 and an A& pitcher hitting .160 is really moot. The advantage comes with AL's 9th hitter, that is likely a professional hitter that will have a much higher .OPS than an NL's handy bench player.
    That is wrong 100%. On avg a AL team has to fund a 10Mil hitter only. Then when they play in NL parks they have to hit with a pitcher who has not faced live pitching for years vs NL pitchers who can place bunts regularly.

    Add to it NL play style has more stragity involved. A AL team pushed into it is inexperienced by nature. The pen is easier to manage without dealing with a pitcher hitting.

    I see the AL as auto pilot more so than the NL. Pitching changes are based off of pitching vs hitting decisions.

    I just see the universal DH as a Union based movement to add 15 roster spots in baseball. The owners were not going to give that up until the next CBA. Let's face it it has more to do with adding jobs vs the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    That is wrong 100%. On avg a AL team has to fund a 10Mil hitter only. Then when they play in NL parks they have to hit with a pitcher who has not faced live pitching for years vs NL pitchers who can place bunts regularly.

    Add to it NL play style has more stragity involved. A AL team pushed into it is inexperienced by nature. The pen is easier to manage without dealing with a pitcher hitting.

    I see the AL as auto pilot more so than the NL. Pitching changes are based off of pitching vs hitting decisions.

    I just see the universal DH as a Union based movement to add 15 roster spots in baseball. The owners were not going to give that up until the next CBA. Let's face it it has more to do with adding jobs vs the game.
    It's not 100% wrong. An NL may be able to allocate their funds in a different way but they also think about their 25 man roster differently. The NL advantages might have been there when inter-league first started, but with the change to 15 AL and 15 NL teams from both sides are playing IL all the time. When an AL team puts together their roster they do so with the DH in mind. NL teams don't so they don't prioritize a DH type guy being there. They'll slap one of their platoon guys in based on SP hand and probably change their line up some.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Castor76 View Post
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    It's not 100% wrong. An NL may be able to allocate their funds in a different way but they also think about their 25 man roster differently. The NL advantages might have been there when inter-league first started, but with the change to 15 AL and 15 NL teams from both sides are playing IL all the time. When an AL team puts together their roster they do so with the DH in mind. NL teams don't so they don't prioritize a DH type guy being there. They'll slap one of their platoon guys in based on SP hand and probably change their line up some.
    A NL team can build like the Cubs. Carry a player like Zobrist that covers many positions. But pushes Schwarber to DH duty. All players are utilized all year and all play those interleague games then go back to rotation. AL loses a hitter at a NL stadium.

    So at AL:. AL no advantage. NL gains a hitter.
    At NL: AL loses a hitter. NL no advantage.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CSF77 View Post
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    A NL team can build like the Cubs. Carry a player like Zobrist that covers many positions. But pushes Schwarber to DH duty. All players are utilized all year and all play those interleague games then go back to rotation. AL loses a hitter at a NL stadium.

    So at AL:. AL no advantage. NL gains a hitter.
    At NL: AL loses a hitter. NL no advantage.
    No: AL has their regular lineup in. NL adds a hitter and probably has their line up changed versus normal.

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