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Thread: Watson vs Mahomes vs Trubisky: 2017 1st Round QB Year 2 Reflection

  1. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by halftime View Post
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    Fox was already a lame duck with one foot out the door. These are just pathetic attempts to justify passing on the far superior QB. IMO, if Pace had drafted Mahomes we'd have had a historic turnaround and a SB trophy. This season would have been legendary.

    Instead we're headed into season four with Trubisky, who's average at best.
    I guess I missed Trubisky’s third season. How was it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by playthrough2001 View Post
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    I guess I missed Trubisky’s third season. How was it?
    He lost to Stanford.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hebs View Post
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    Why is it odd? If Mahomes squeaks out a 9-7 season with Fox, how can you magically assume Fox would be still be fired? Maybe he just brings in a new OC like DeFillipo?

    Or does it just have to fit a narrative you prefer, to be plausible?

    For the record, I wanted Mahomes very early in the draft process.

    Also for the record, I think you can easily win a Super Bowl with any of the 3.



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    The huge assumption is he squeaks out 9-7. Based on what? It would have been his first year learning an NFL offense and the supporting cast would have been absolute shit. So not sure how you figure he gets Fox to 9 wins.

    We don't know how much he benefited from sitting for an entire year learning so not sure how we make the quantum leap to 9-7.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    The huge assumption is he squeaks out 9-7. Based on what? It would have been his first year learning an NFL offense and the supporting cast would have been absolute shit. So not sure how you figure he gets Fox to 9 wins.

    We don't know how much he benefited from sitting for an entire year learning so not sure how we make the quantum leap to 9-7.
    Watson and Mahomes both would have struggled with Fox and that WR crew. Hell, Tom Brady would have had a tough time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbldrew View Post
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    Except I never said anything on passing up on him in the draft. I responded to sagbear saying that imagine if Mahomes was put into the Bears situation Fox/Shit WR etc..

    I replied with Cutler 2.0

    you brought 50TD and passing up in the draft to ME. Now the only reason you would bring up the 50TD to me is that you would still think that he would get 50TD under fox/loggans run team and not be cutler 2.0, OR your own vortex has you confused and your applying arguments that you have with others in this thread to me..
    No I am saying Sag's entire scenario was to justify not taking a guy who ended up with 50 TDs. Read it again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sagbear View Post
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    Imagine Mahomes not being able to sit for a year behind a good veteran QB whos biggest strengths are Mahomes biggest weaknesses and a coaching staff thats been able to groom him, Imagine him being thrust into our starting line up with Fox as his head coach and Inman as his #1 receiver.
    This was not talking about the stats he would put up under Fox. This is saying he blew up this year because he sat last year and learned. So he was trying to imply the 50 TD season would not have happened without his sitting so your Cutler 2.0 comment seemed to be saying he would have developed into Cutler not merely referring to his performance under Fox.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomaz View Post
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    First of all, you cannot prove what you say about Mahomes, it is all conjecture. It is nice to fool oneself into believing something better would happen if only this one thing happened.
    You also can't prove Fox will still be here but you still thanking posts that did so. So it is just a question of which conjecture you choose to support.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    No I am saying Sag's entire scenario was to justify not taking a guy who ended up with 50 TDs. Read it again.



    This was not talking about the stats he would put up under Fox. This is saying he blew up this year because he sat last year and learned. So he was trying to imply the 50 TD season would not have happened without his sitting so your Cutler 2.0 comment seemed to be saying he would have developed into Cutler not merely referring to his performance under Fox.
    No its real simple he said imagine if he didnt sit for a year and was put into the shit show that was FOX/loggins/shitty WRs

    I imagine that that scenario would produce results equal to what we have seen from Cutler.

    Its really not complicated. Simple question and a simple answer

    now if you want to argue about people NOT wanting to draft him then go ahead a quote the person WHO ACTUALLY SAID NOT TO DRAFT HIM..

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbldrew View Post
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    No its real simple he said imagine if he didnt sit for a year and was put into the shit show that was FOX/loggins/shitty WRs

    I imagine that that scenario would produce results equal to what we have seen from Cutler.

    Its really not complicated. Simple question and a simple answer

    now if you want to argue about people NOT wanting to draft him then go ahead a quote the person WHO ACTUALLY SAID NOT TO DRAFT HIM..
    Yes that is what he said. I am saying he said it to suggest his development would have been hindered and he would not have put up 50 TDs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Burque View Post
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    Imagine how much better we would be with the extra picks we could've had from not trading up, but instead trading back and taking Mahomes.

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    This is the post Sag quoted. It is obvious his scenario was addressing the above. So forgive me if I simply read things in context. He was trying to justify not drafting Mahomes as the above post he responded to indicated.

    Now it is perfectly fine if your response was not refering to the above because you didnt understand the context but I read your response in light of the original discussion which was about keeping the picks and drafting Mahomes instead of Trubs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    Yes that is what he said. I am saying he said it to suggest his development would have been hindered and he would not have put up 50 TDs.



    This is the post Sag quoted. It is obvious his scenario was addressing the above. So forgive me if I simply read things in context. He was trying to justify not drafting Mahomes as the above post he responded to indicated.

    Now it is perfectly fine if your response was not refering to the above because you didnt understand the context but I read your response in light of the original discussion which was about keeping the picks and drafting Mahomes instead of Trubs.
    and no where did he say not to draft him..

    It was a "imagine" where we would be with Mahomes AND more draft picks, and he was bringing to light that Mahomes would not be the same player on the Bears and being developed by Fox/Loggins as he was on the Chiefs.

    Now if you want to really argue his post then post your own reply to where Mahomes would be development wise dealing with Fox.. Or i guess you could keep with the strawman arguments.. lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by dbldrew View Post
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    and no where did he say not to draft him..

    It was a "imagine" where we would be with Mahomes AND more draft picks, and he was bringing to light that Mahomes would not be the same player on the Bears and being developed by Fox/Loggins as he was on the Chiefs.

    Now if you want to really argue his post then post your own reply to where Mahomes would be development wise dealing with Fox.. Or i guess you could keep with the strawman arguments.. lol
    Burque brought up a scenario of drafting Mahomes and keeping the picks. The only reason for Sag to respond as he did is to suggest that would be a bad idea. Not sure why you pretending the intent was otherwise.

    Trubs ultimately survived Fox so not sure why we acting like Mahomes could not have.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    Burque brought up a scenario of drafting Mahomes and keeping the picks. The only reason for Sag to respond as he did is to suggest that would be a bad idea. Not sure why you pretending the intent was otherwise.

    Trubs ultimately survived Fox so not sure why we acting like Mahomes could not have.
    so going to stick with the strawman argument i see..

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    You also can't prove Fox will still be here but you still thanking posts that did so. So it is just a question of which conjecture you choose to support.
    Fox is not here and nothing will change that.
    The conjecture is that Mahomes would have won a super bowl here and had a legendary season. I can thank any post that I feel is relevant. Which I did.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomaz View Post
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    Fox is not here and nothing will change that.
    The conjecture is that Mahomes would have won a super bowl here and had a legendary season. I can thank any post that I feel is relevant. Which I did.
    I really think that is a legit question...not necessarily if Mahomes would have had a legendary season with the Bears in 2018 (I don't think he would have), but if the Bears would have won the Super Bowl this year if they had Mahomes instead of Trubisky.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomaz View Post
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    Fox is not here and nothing will change that.
    The conjecture is that Mahomes would have won a super bowl here and had a legendary season. I can thank any post that I feel is relevant. Which I did.
    The point is your are complaining about conjecture while thanking posts filled of conjecture. That is your right as it is my right to point out how hypocritical it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rory Sparrow View Post
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    I really think that is a legit question...not necessarily if Mahomes would have had a legendary season with the Bears in 2018 (I don't think he would have), but if the Bears would have won the Super Bowl this year if they had Mahomes instead of Trubisky.
    Of course it is a legit question, but not a legit statement of fact. We may or may not have won it with Mahomes, or we may have had a double doink to end the season. We just can’t prove it one way or another is all I’m saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    The point is your are complaining about conjecture while thanking posts filled of conjecture. That is your right as it is my right to point out how hypocritical it is.

    No complaints, just pointing out reality. Feel free to fantasize about having any qb you want. You just can’t prove they would have been better or worse than what we have.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leomaz View Post
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    No complaints, just pointing out reality. Feel free to fantasize about having any qb you want. You just can’t prove they would have been better or worse than what we have.
    No need. I am fine with the fact we have Trubs.

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    Maybe we win if we have Hopkins or Hunt or Gilmore or Gould or Edelman etc. I'm just happy we won the division and the position in question is looking like a positive for a change.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbldrew View Post
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    and no where did he say not to draft him..

    It was a "imagine" where we would be with Mahomes AND more draft picks, and he was bringing to light that Mahomes would not be the same player on the Bears and being developed by Fox/Loggins as he was on the Chiefs.

    Now if you want to really argue his post then post your own reply to where Mahomes would be development wise dealing with Fox.. Or i guess you could keep with the strawman arguments.. lol
    To play devils advocate, Fox may have actually put work in to Mahomes rather than just cash a check and half heartedly punch a clock.

    How quickly we forget that Fox coached Mannings finest year- 55 tds, 5500 yards, 115 rating on a whopping 659 attempt season. He had some decent receivers, but it can legitimately be argued manning made them, not the other way around.
    Fox got a couple really great seasons out of a fading manning who promptly fell off a cliff thereafter. (yeah, the broncos won a super bowl... but they did so off of the defense. They went from the #2 offense in 2014 to #19 in 2015... Manning faded to his worst year as a pro with 9 tds and 17 picks)

    Our fox experience was watching him get saddled Cutler/barkley/clausen and then toss in a limited experience rookie... dude was cashing a check and didnt give a fuck. If he had a prize like Mahomes, He might still be here.

    just arguing devils advocate. Our Fox experience was doomed from the start with the cutler contract. Fox had shown beyond a shadow of a doubt he could get some spectacular results with good players, so to discount him developing Mahomes out of hand is not really fair. Who knows what would have happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by airtime143 View Post
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    To play devils advocate, Fox may have actually put work in to Mahomes rather than just cash a check and half heartedly punch a clock.

    How quickly we forget that Fox coached Mannings finest year- 55 tds, 5500 yards, 115 rating on a whopping 659 attempt season. He had some decent receivers, but it can legitimately be argued manning made them, not the other way around.
    Fox got a couple really great seasons out of a fading manning who promptly fell off a cliff thereafter. (yeah, the broncos won a super bowl... but they did so off of the defense. They went from the #2 offense in 2014 to #19 in 2015... Manning faded to his worst year as a pro with 9 tds and 17 picks)

    Our fox experience was watching him get saddled Cutler/barkley/clausen and then toss in a limited experience rookie... dude was cashing a check and didnt give a fuck. If he had a prize like Mahomes, He might still be here.

    just arguing devils advocate. Our Fox experience was doomed from the start with the cutler contract. Fox had shown beyond a shadow of a doubt he could get some spectacular results with good players, so to discount him developing Mahomes out of hand is not really fair. Who knows what would have happened.
    Agree completely. Fox won with all types of QBs and usually figured out a way to get the most out of them. Delhomme, Tebow, dead-arm Peyton Manning. To be stuck with Cutler had to be the worst for Fox, even worse than Tebow, because at least Tebow was an unknown. Fox knew going in that Cutler sucked....for Pace to do nothing to address the QB position (even after stating his belief in drafting a QB every year) had to be frustrating for Fox, and possibly contributed to Fox going into full Lou Pinella Retirement Mode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by remydat View Post
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    The huge assumption is he squeaks out 9-7. Based on what? It would have been his first year learning an NFL offense and the supporting cast would have been absolute shit. So not sure how you figure he gets Fox to 9 wins.

    We don't know how much he benefited from sitting for an entire year learning so not sure how we make the quantum leap to 9-7.

    Considering we're all talking hypothetically, your statement is just as speculative as everyone else's.

    The bold is the only thing accurate about this discussion.

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    https://imgur.com/a/ikHopju

    I found an imgur album that had the PFF Trubisky breakdown. Didn't want to post the actual images here in case someone gets upset about that. It can be a little hard to read, but by all means, I recommend if you enjoy the content, subscribe to them.

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