Watson vs Mahomes vs Trubisky: 2017 1st Round QB Year 2 Reflection

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
Reading comprehension is hard isn’t it? I clearly said it got better as the season went on. The most obvious reason is Nagy was still working on Mitch’s mechanics in the early part of the season which is why it didn’t grade out as well. It’s also easier to have a better deep ball grade with less attempts. It’s not like Nagy ever said his mechanics were a work in progress or anything.
Edit: and I’m not blaming him for Tebow I’m saying with the exception of Peyton Manning he’s never had a successful QB. That means something.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No that reason is not obvious at all since it could just be he and his new WRs were not on the same page as they all learned a new offense.

You are making shit up to suit your narrative.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
No that reason is not obvious at all since it could just be he and his new WRs were not on the same page as they all learned a new offense.

You are making shit up to suit your narrative.

Please tell me what shit I said that is false


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
Lol you said somethig is obvious when there are several other obvious explanations as well.

Does that make it less true because other things are true as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
Does that make it less true because other things are true as well


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It would be nice if you had actual evidence instead of passing off your opinion as fact. Next you will blame Fox for global warming.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
It would be nice if you had actual evidence instead of passing off your opinion as fact. Next you will blame Fox for global warming.

What opinions? The fact that John Fox has never had a QB produce in his offensive system except for Peyton Manning. Or he has never had an offense that didn’t go run run pass? Or the fact that his offense was still bland and horrible to watch before Mitch was even on the bears? Or Mitch had terrible mechanics after his season with Fox which means it was not addressed / could not be addressed. These are all facts that directly hindered Mitch’s development as a QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
What opinions? The fact that John Fox has never had a QB produce in his offensive system except for Peyton Manning. Or he has never had an offense that didn’t go run run pass? Or the fact that his offense was still bland and horrible to watch before Mitch was even on the bears? Or Mitch had terrible mechanics after his season with Fox which means it was not addressed / could not be addressed. These are all facts that directly hindered Mitch’s development as a QB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Your claim was it was Fox fault Mitch couldn't throw deep. That is absurd. More likely Trubs and WRs struggled to get on same page in a new and complicated O.

Again you just made up a theory to suit your narrative. We debated Mitch a lot this year and you were talking about the new O and getting on same page with WRs. Now in the offseason suddenly you make up a new theory involving Fox that you never expressed before? Not buying it.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
Your claim was it was Fox fault Mitch couldn't throw deep. That is absurd. More likely Trubs and WRs struggled to get on same page in a new and complicated O.

Again you just made up a theory to suit your narrative. We debated Mitch a lot this year and you were talking about the new O and getting on same page with WRs. Now in the offseason suddenly you make up a new theory involving Fox that you never expressed before? Not buying it.

Please show me where I ever said it was Fox’s fault he couldn’t throw deep. I said he had bad footwork that Fox didn’t / couldn’t fix which most likely contributed to his early season deep ball struggles which Nagy was working on. It’s also more than likely that the new offensive scheme was difficult to pick up, in fact Nagy openly said he had to scale back the play book for it. Again both things can be true. And I didn’t know I had to express every little Bears related thought for me to have a valid opinion on the subject


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

PrideisBears

Bully Mod
Staff member
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '21
Joined:
Jun 20, 2010
Posts:
38,160
Liked Posts:
32,803
Location:
In the mod forum planning your ban
Remy in every thread
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
Please show me where I ever said it was Fox’s fault he couldn’t throw deep. I said he had bad footwork that Fox didn’t / couldn’t fix which most likely contributed to his early season deep ball struggles which Nagy was working on. It’s also more than likely that the new offensive scheme was difficult to pick up, in fact Nagy openly said he had to scale back the play book for it. Again both things can be true. And I didn’t know I had to express every little Bears related thought for me to have a valid opinion on the subject


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Lol, saying he has bad footwork, blaming it on Fox and then claiming that caused his deep troubles is indeed blaming Fox.

You haven't proven your opinion is valid. You have offered no actual objective evidence to support your opinion. I could just as easily say he struggled throwing deep because Nagy didn't focus on it and I would have just as much support for it as you.

1. Fox didn't fix it.

2. It was fixed but Mitch regressed.

3. Nagy didn't emphasize it.

4. His deep ball struggles had nothing to do with his footwork.

These are you options. Please provide objective evidence to support whichever assertion you believe to be true.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
Lol, saying he has bad footwork, blaming it on Fox and then claiming that caused his deep troubles is indeed blaming Fox.

You haven't proven your opinion is valid. You have offered no actual objective evidence to support your opinion. I could just as easily say he struggled throwing deep because Nagy didn't focus on it and I would have just as much support for it as you.

1. Fox didn't fix it.

2. It was fixed but Mitch regressed.

3. Nagy didn't emphasize it.

4. His deep ball struggles had nothing to do with his footwork.

These are you options. Please provide objective evidence to support whichever assertion you believe to be true.

Again, reading comprehension must be tough. I very clearly used the word “contributed” to when referring to his bad foot work in regards to his deep ball struggles. In regards to his footwork I believe 2 is correct. Here are some links that show what I’m talking about
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...on-play-dissection-breakdown-development-nagy

https://www.bleachernation.com/bear...h-trubisky-re-working-his-footwork-mechanics/

Edit: and I’m not saying Trubisky has regressed over all as a player. He certainly regressed in the early part of the season compared to his rookie season but then once his mechanics got better and got more comfortable he improved by leaps and bounds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

bearmick

Captain Objectivity
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
37,895
Liked Posts:
43,086
I took a look the stats for Watson, Mahomes and Trubisky.

Mahomes: 50 TD 12 INT 66% 5097 yards 113.8 rating

Watson: 26 TD 7 INT 68.3% 4165 yards 103.1 rating

Trubisky: 24 TD 12 INT 66.7% 3223 yards* 95.4 rating

**Only played 14 games

As you can see Trubisky is lagging behind the quarterbacks that Pace deemed he was better than in almost every category.

The thread I got the biggest laugh from recently was the one about ranking these three, and while everyone knows what Mahomes is doing is absurd, the overwhelming majority of posters had Trubisky at #2 ahead of Watson. Just outrageous homerism at its finest, and typical of CCS.

You could poll the whole country and get every single analyst and fan to vote, and it's 100% certain that the order would be Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky. But this board over the last couple of years has turned into Trubisky fanboy central and an objective discussion about the position simply cannot occur here at this point.
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
Again, reading comprehension must be tough. I very clearly used the word “contributed” to when referring to his bad foot work in regards to his deep ball struggles. In regards to his footwork I believe 2 is correct. Here are some links that show what I’m talking about
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wi...on-play-dissection-breakdown-development-nagy

https://www.bleachernation.com/bear...h-trubisky-re-working-his-footwork-mechanics/

Edit: and I’m not saying Trubisky has regressed over all as a player. He certainly regressed in the early part of the season compared to his rookie season but then once his mechanics got better and got more comfortable he improved by leaps and bounds


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Right, blaming Fox and saying he regressed are two different things.

That explains why all of John Fox’s QBs except Peyton Manning were prolific in his offense right? Also Mitch’s deep ball was much improved as the season went on which is likely because of the horrendous footwork he had which Fox could not / did not fix.

The above does not say contributed or regression. You blamed Fox for not being able to fix it. At least now you realize he may have regressed which has very little to do with Fox and likely more to do with a young and inexperienced QB needing time.
 

bearmick

Captain Objectivity
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
37,895
Liked Posts:
43,086
Watson has Hopkins to throw to, you have to factor that into the equation as he is one of the top 5 WRs in the game.

Option 1) One of the most if not THE most advanced, QB-friendly state of the art modern NFL offenses ran by the coach of the year. A very solid pass blocking OL. An abundance of weapons throughout the offense. One of the best, most dynamic utility players like Cohen to rely on when the down field play isn't there.

Option 2) Stale, non-innovative offense barely better than Fox/Loggains. The worst pass blocking OL in the game. But you get Hopkins.

Yeah I'll take option 1 every time, thanks.
 

Rory Sparrow

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 14, 2010
Posts:
4,850
Liked Posts:
3,735
Remy in every thread

1140-campaign-slogans-button-hoover-imgcache-revb4398891fd31aa654b3b8ba7cb844f37-web-e1492024372844.jpg
 

didshereallysaythat

Well-known member
Joined:
Aug 14, 2011
Posts:
20,304
Liked Posts:
9,919
The thread I got the biggest laugh from recently was the one about ranking these three, and while everyone knows what Mahomes is doing is absurd, the overwhelming majority of posters had Trubisky at #2 ahead of Watson. Just outrageous homerism at its finest, and typical of CCS.

You could poll the whole country and get every single analyst and fan to vote, and it's 100% certain that the order would be Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky. But this board over the last couple of years has turned into Trubisky fanboy central and an objective discussion about the position simply cannot occur here at this point.

IMO, if you polled all the analysts out there, it would be 100% Mahomes number 1, 60% Watson number 2, and 40% Trubisky number 2. It's closer than you think.
 

WestCoastBearsFan

Well-known member
Joined:
Dec 25, 2017
Posts:
16,839
Liked Posts:
11,974
My favorite teams
  1. Los Angeles Lakers
  1. Chicago Bears
  1. Los Angeles Kings
  1. Clemson Tigers
Right, blaming Fox and saying he regressed are two different things.



The above does not say contributed or regression. You blamed Fox for not being able to fix it. At least now you realize he may have regressed which has very little to do with Fox and likely more to do with a young and inexperienced QB needing time.

How does it have very little to do with Fox? Nagy fixed it, or at least made drastic improvements to it, in one season and its apparent Fox did not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

remydat

CCS Hall of Fame
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Sep 15, 2012
Posts:
57,801
Liked Posts:
37,746
How does it have very little to do with Fox? Nagy fixed it, or at least made drastic improvements to it, in one season and its apparent Fox did not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Regression means something was at a certain level and then declined. So the point is Fox (more precisely Ragone and Loggains) worked on his footwork but then most likely due to his learning a new offense with new WRs his footwork declined from where it was in the previous year. Hence the term regression being used ie it was fine before but then got worse in the new offense.

Trubs has the same QB coach he had under Fox/Loggains ie Dave Ragone. It is absurd to think that Nagy would bring back the same QB coach who is the main guy for helping a QB learn mechanics and footwork but yet Ragone magically did nothing for Trubs footwork and mechanics before this season.

So again, your argument makes no sense. This is stuff Ragone worked on with Trubs last year and got to a certain point. Due to all the shit being thrown at him in a new offense, Trubs let his footwork slip or regress. That has nothing to do with Fox. Ragone then most likely had to work with him to get it back to the level it was before and that will probably be a constant work in progress for a young inexperienced QB.

And your original claim that Fox did nothing for him is just stupid. A college QB with 13 starts in college most certainly has a fuck ton to learn and he did not learn it all this year. Fox's biggest contribution seems to be having Logains and Ragone teach Trubs the fundamentals and how to be a professional. He did that by having an offense that was digestable which is the best he could do with such a shitty WR core. We know there was value in what the Fox regime taught Mitch because Nagy saw fit to keep the QB coach that was the main guy working with Trubs. You don't do that if the QB coach taught Trubs nothing.
 

bearmick

Captain Objectivity
Donator
CCS Hall of Fame '19
Joined:
Aug 20, 2012
Posts:
37,895
Liked Posts:
43,086
IMO, if you polled all the analysts out there, it would be 100% Mahomes number 1, 60% Watson number 2, and 40% Trubisky number 2. It's closer than you think.

You're not rebutting my point. I didn't say 100% of the people would put Watson over Trubisky, I said that it's 100% certain that the overall order after all voting would be Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky.

In your scenario where 40% put Trubisky over Watson (which I think is high and would be closer to 10-20%, but regardless), the order would still be Mahomes, Watson, Trubisky.
 

Top