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It is threads like these that should remind all of us to get a hobby in the offseason.
Now that Kareem Hunt is a ****ing BROWN does Nagy finally figure out how to use Howar
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What if your hobby is talking on a sports message board?
BearDen
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Yet you clicked it, read it, and even posted in it.
WestCoastBearsFan
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Truly odd post. I provided data to support my point.
1. It is well documented that Howard excels in zone blocking as evidenced by the fact he was a productive back whenever the Bears ran zone. This includes the previous 2 years where they ran it over 80% of the time and the fact he had a 4.1 YPC average this year when the Bears zone blocked.
2. It is well documented that earlier in the year Nagy ran zone blocking less than the 80% of the time the Bears ran it last year and that Howard's numbers suffered as he had a 2.9 YPC in gap blocking.
3. It is well documented that when Nagy increased the zone blocking closer to 80% ie 74.3 percent that Howards numbers increased.
So not sure what you want me to conclude here. It seems fairly clear that a large part of the reason the Bears run game struggled is because Nagy had Howard running behind a block gaping scheme. Further, it is entirely possible that part of the reason his YPC was 2.9 in gap blocking was so shitty was because the Bears OL is not best trying to gap block. They too had played in a zone blocking scheme the previous 2 years and their run blocking looked a hell of a lot better in previous years than it did this year.
But if you have any insights into the data then please share but my statement is correct. You had posters claiming Nagy would have to change the entire offensive scheme completely oblivious to the fact that Nagy's O is still majority zone blocking as was the Chiefs last year. You even had one post that claimed that zone blocking is essentially doing when the vast majority of teams are largely zone blocking. So what can I attribute those clearly erroneous statements too if not this reflexive need to find excuses for Nagy?
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BearDen
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Yes I'm sure OP was an emotional wreck who invested hours, possibly days into making this thread.
WestCoastBearsFan
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1. We did not bring Nagy here to implement a zone run offense. We brought him here to implement his historically good offense in KC and has seen success in other places like Philly. If Nagy doesn’t want to run the zone read then he shouldn’t have to. If Howard can’t fit the offense he’s expendable. I’ll point to the fact that Cohen was much better in the same offense behind the same offensive line than Howard was.
2. Howard’s numbers have declined every year since his rookie year. He simply can’t play at the same level he used to because of the physicality of his running.
3. Howard is a rhythm back who takes a little while to get going and it’s true Nagy didn’t seem to understand that but this offense isn’t designed for a RB that needs time to get a rhythm it’s designed for RBs that are explosive with a burst and are reliable pass catchers
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I have been waiting and planning this thread for 2 months.
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1. Did you read anything provided to you? The Chiefs are historically a zone read offense. They ran it 60% of the of time so yes we did in fact bring Nagy here to run a zone read offense.
2. It is just is pure speculation that he can't play at the same level because of the physicality of his running. In fact his 4.1 YPC when zone blocking is employed was the same as in the prior year so virtually nothing changed in terms of his running ability in zone blocking. What changed is Nagy ran it 58% of the time instead of the 81% of the time Fox ran it.
3. To say he is a rhythm back that takes a while to get going is again pure speculation. What facts do you have to support that. What is is YPC on 1-5 carries vs say his next 5-10 carries, etc.
In short, I provided you data and you just blindly speculating. It is clearly you either didn't read or comprehend what was provided because your claim that he was not brought here to run a zone run offense when that was the bulk of his blocking scheme in KC is categorically false and patently absurd.
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20. KANSAS CITY CHIEFS
Zone Blocking Percentage: 59.4 percent
Primary Zone Concept: Outside Zone (71.6 percent)
No team has gained more per carry on zone runs than the Kansas City Chiefs, who are one of only two teams to average more than five yards per carry on those runs (5.3). They have gained the second-most yards per carry before first contact, with Kareem Hunt in particular helping keep their average after contact strong as well.
Only on CCS can a Nagy sycophant claim Nagy wasn't brought here to run a zone offense when that represented 60% of his run offense last year. The Chiefs actually lead the NFL on YPC on zone runs but somehow that offense is not the one Nagy came to implement. Truly astonishing stuff WCBF.
Zone Blocking Percentage: 59.4 percent
Primary Zone Concept: Outside Zone (71.6 percent)
No team has gained more per carry on zone runs than the Kansas City Chiefs, who are one of only two teams to average more than five yards per carry on those runs (5.3). They have gained the second-most yards per carry before first contact, with Kareem Hunt in particular helping keep their average after contact strong as well.
Only on CCS can a Nagy sycophant claim Nagy wasn't brought here to run a zone offense when that represented 60% of his run offense last year. The Chiefs actually lead the NFL on YPC on zone runs but somehow that offense is not the one Nagy came to implement. Truly astonishing stuff WCBF.
msadows
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Dude you are seriously contradicting yourself.
The chiefs ran it 60%. You were complaining that Nagy didn't run the zone enough early in the season, when he ran it 60%....JUST LIKE THE CHIEFS.
What the fuck are you on? The chiefs don't run Zone 80% of the time like you want us to. They ran it 60% just like Nagy tried to when he orginally got hired. His offense uses a multitude of blocking and formation schemes, not just outside zone non stop like you want it to.
You essentially want Nagy to NOT run the offense he learned in KC and run a fox ball offense.
msadows
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Nearly Every team runs Zone more than Gap.
Thats like saying the chiefs used 11 personnel more than any other formation. Ohh wait, thats because every team in the nfl does that.
Thats like saying the chiefs used 11 personnel more than any other formation. Ohh wait, thats because every team in the nfl does that.
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ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I think people get it by now. u h8 Howard almost as much as you h8 Bearmick.
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No you can't read. I want him to run his offense at percentages that are successful. That is not changing the offense. That is changing the gameplan which coaches do every fucking week.
You are confused because you don't know the difference between an offensive scheme and an offensive gameplan. If it is in the playbook and run a majority of the time it is part of the offensive scheme. If you are altering how much of a certain play you run then it is altering the offensive gameplan not the offensive scheme.
There is no evidence to suggest an 75-25 split for Zone vs Gap somehow hinders the offense more than a 60-40 split. In fact, when Nagy did in fact switch to the former, the run game improved and our ability to control ToP in games against the Pack and Vikings was much better.
Please direct this to WCBF because his claim was that Nagy didn't come here to run a zone offense.
msadows
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Nah you still don't make sense.
Just because its in the playbook doesn't mean it isn't altering your entire offensive scheme.
Thats like saying the chiefs are succesful at running 11 personell, so they should run it 80% of the time instead of 51% of the time just because it fits one player better.
Nagy was brought in here to run Andy Reid's system. Andy Reid does not run zone on 80% of run plays. Man and Gap blocking is essential for a lot of his misdirection and trick plays. If you wanted to run zone 80% of the time you should have kept John Fox. You are essentially bitching at a coach for running his system, a system that is the best in the league, because he isn't running zone schemes as much as his predecesor was(Who had one of the worst systems in the league)
msadows
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ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm I think people get it by now. u h8 Howard almost as much as you h8 Bearmick.
Nah howard is average to above average. The 10-15 range as a starting RB, more towards the 15. He's good enough to win with, but not good enough if you want a potent offense. Definately not good enough to warrant changing your offense around his strengths.
The offense changed the last 4 games not because of Jordan Howard, but because of mitch trubisky. I think Remy kinda fails to see that.
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I guess you missed where the Chiefs led the league in YPC at 5.3 last year. So yes I think it makes sense to run more zone when your O led the league in zone blocking and when your RB is better at running zone than gap. Fairly obvious.
Bellichek will completely redesign his gameplan based on the circumstances. You seem to want a coach who stubbornly sticks with 60% zone and ignores the reality of how successful his team is. Increasing to 74% is not that hard because Nagy already did it and it worked.
Again this ignores the fact that the Chiefs led the NFL in zone running YPC. So their potent offense was largely predicated on running zone successfully.
msadows
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He did it because Mitch wasn't playing at the level he needed to.
It had nothing to do with howard. Gap is essential because you know where the defense will be led on a designed play. You can suck the linebackers in. Obviously Nagy wanted to exploit that in the short passing game.
He changed his offense because Mitch was NOT progressing with the playcalling he had.
In the playoffs when we ran zone we actually barely gained any traction. The biggest play was a gap blocking misderection to taylor gabriel. We started the game out with 2 6 yard rushes in man blocking.
The should be biggest run, and touchdown, in that last game would have been a 52 yard Jordan Howard run on a counter trap, too bad Howard went down by an arm tackle to gain 4 yards instead.
Plenty of blame is to go around for why the run game didn't succeed, but a lot of it is that Jordan Howard just isn't that special.
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Please link to the article where Nagy said any of this. You are speculating and passing it off as fact.
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