Biggs: Bears need a RB for 15 touches per game

WindyCity

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Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
I take it you quoted Biggs there.

Howard in 2018 had 26 targets with 20 catches for a 76.9 % catch rating.

I think Biggs might be too anti-Howard for a unbiased opinion based on his quotes. Nagy cannot NEED a Kareem Hunt for his offensive system to work properly. That would be stupid. Almost as stupid as Martz needing HOF O-linemen for his vertical playbook to function correctly.
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He only runs check downs or dump offs.

My guess is his average air yards is less than 3, which skews the stats. Degree of difficulty has to be factored in.

Maybe he can catch, but they do not seem to think he can run actual routes and even go into the middle of the field on passing plays.
 
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Kareem Hunt only had 1 game out of 11 with over 91 yards this year. KC did fine without Hunt when he left, Eagles did fine without 1 great back, Pats played 4 different tailbacks in the SB, Rams didn't seem lost without Gurley playing. I'm not sure Bears need to look at replacing Howard, all they need to look at is replacing Mizzell/Cunningham, which can be done with a mid-late round pick and a cheap FA castoff.
 
Outlaw Josey Cutler

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WindyCity said:
He only runs check downs or dump offs.

My guess is his average air yards is less than 3, which skews the stats. Degree of difficulty has to be factored in.

Maybe he can catch, but they do not seem to think he can run actual routes and even go into the middle of the field on passing plays.
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So you are saying Nagy NEEDS a Kareem Hunt type of RB for his system? The knock on Howard was drops going into the year and my point was Howard fixed that. If Nagy prefers a RB to run routes out of the backfield and wants to move on from Howard, that's one thing.

But if Nagy NEEDS a RB to run routes and Pace can't give it to him due to lack of $$ and Nagy's O still sputters at times then it's more of a reflection on Nagy than Howard imo, and Biggs seems to be unaware of that fact.
 
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WindyCity

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Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
So you are saying Nagy NEEDS a Kareem Hunt type of RB for his system? The knock on Howard was drops going into the year and my point was Howard fixed that. If Nagy needs RB to run routes out of the backfield and wants to move on from Howard, that's one thing.

But if Nagy NEEDS a RB to run routes and Pace can't give it to him due to lack of $$ and Nagy's O still sputters at times then it's more of a reflection on Nagy than Howard imo, and Biggs seems to be unaware of that fact.
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I think he wants a RB that has more home run ability and that can run routes. I think he needs it for his offense to run at peak efficiency.

I do not think it is a cap issue. I think they will draft someone who is a better fit and continue to pay their RB 500k versus what Howard is going to make.

I am of the mind that we should draft a 3rd round RB every 3 years to maintain a cheap position.
 
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legendxofxlink said:
Kareem Hunt only had 1 game out of 11 with over 91 yards this year. KC did fine without Hunt when he left, Eagles did fine without 1 great back, Pats played 4 different tailbacks in the SB, Rams didn't seem lost without Gurley playing. I'm not sure Bears need to look at replacing Howard, all they need to look at is replacing Mizzell/Cunningham, which can be done with a mid-late round pick and a cheap FA castoff.
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They need to replace him because he is leaving in 2020.

Why not try and do it this year in the 3rd or 4th round vs spending a 2nd round pick on a guy next season?
 
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WindyCity said:
They need to replace him because he is leaving in 2020.

Why not try and do it this year in the 3rd or 4th round vs spending a 2nd round pick on a guy next season?
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Why not spend a 3rd or 4th round pick next season? How much snaps would the 3rd or 4th round guy get in 2019 anyways? Enough to pass judgement? Even Bears fans were still optimistic about Jeremy Langford, even though he was literally the worst RB in the NFL according to advanced metrics.
 
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Rory Sparrow said:
Why not spend a 3rd or 4th round pick next season? How much snaps would the 3rd or 4th round guy get in 2019 anyways? Enough to pass judgement? Even Bears fans were still optimistic about Jeremy Langford, even though he was literally the worst RB in the NFL according to advanced metrics.
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Because if you spend it this season you get a year to figure out,

-Does he suck?
-Teach him the offense
-Teach him to pass protect

If you draft him in 2020 to start in 2020 and he sucks you are screwed. Draft him in 2019 and if he isn't good enough you can try again in 2020.
 
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WindyCity said:
They need to replace him because he is leaving in 2020.

Why not try and do it this year in the 3rd or 4th round vs spending a 2nd round pick on a guy next season?
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But they need to USE him in 2019. Why would you pick a RB in 2019 just to sit behind Howard? I mean I guess if you think there is a RB THAT good to supplant Howard in 2019 and trade? Is that what you are saying here?
 
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WindyCity said:
Because if you spend it this season you get a year to figure out,

-Does he suck?
-Teach him the offense
-Teach him to pass protect

If you draft him in 2020 to start in 2020 and he sucks you are screwed. Draft him in 2019 and if he isn't good enough you can try again in 2020.
Click to expand...

Oh so you mean Howard is done here. He will not produce for Nagy so we basically ONLY have Cohen so we should draft Howard's replacement now?

All right, I'll stop posting to read your replies.
 
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Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
Oh so you mean Howard is done here. He will not produce for Nagy so we basically ONLY have Cohen so we should draft Howard's replacement now?

All right, I'll stop posting to read your replies.
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I am saying that Howard is gone in 2020.

I am drafting someone this year to groom, if he is better than Howard I would trade Howard at the deadline, if he isn't as a rookie then I simply let him learn and hopefully he takes over in 2020.

My depth chart would be

Howard
Cohen
Draft Pick, competing and learning
Mizzell vs Nall
 
msadows

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WindyCity said:
I am saying that Howard is gone in 2020.

I am drafting someone this year to groom, if he is better than Howard I would trade Howard at the deadline, if he isn't as a rookie then I simply let him learn and hopefully he takes over in 2020.

My depth chart would be

Howard
Cohen
Draft Pick, competing and learning
Mizzell vs Nall
Click to expand...

The concept is lost on these buffoons about drafting depth.

They are still living in the golden Phil Emery age of drafting football.

Wait till you have a hole to fix it desperately, and hope for the best.
 
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msadows said:
The concept is lost on these buffoons about drafting depth.

They are still living in the golden Phil Emery age of drafting football.

Wait till you have a hole to fix it desperately, and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

I would be shocked with our lack of resources if we added more than 1 immediate contributor. This draft is really about 2020 and the guys who will not be here,

Long
Prince
Howard
 
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The draft will be somewhat predicated on what the Bears do in FA. It is useless to say now use the 3rd or 4th rounder on a RB.

A. It depends on who is available in FA

B. It depends on who is available in the draft


If a RB is sitting there that is ok for the round you are drafting, but you see a safety that you graded as a late round 1 or 2, you may jump at the safety position. If you don't like any of the RBs you aren't going to draft one because you may not believe any of them can take the reigns and start in the future, you'd just be wasting a draft pick.
 
Rory Sparrow

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modo said:
The draft will be somewhat predicated on what the Bears do in FA. It is useless to say now use the 3rd or 4th rounder on a RB.

A. It depends on who is available in FA

B. It depends on who is available in the draft


If a RB is sitting there that is ok for the round you are drafting, but you see a safety that you graded as a late round 1 or 2, you may jump at the safety position. If you don't like any of the RBs you aren't going to draft one because you may not believe any of them can take the reigns and start in the future, you'd just be wasting a draft pick.
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Agree. BPA.
 
WindyCity

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modo said:
The draft will be somewhat predicated on what the Bears do in FA. It is useless to say now use the 3rd or 4th rounder on a RB.

A. It depends on who is available in FA

B. It depends on who is available in the draft


If a RB is sitting there that is ok for the round you are drafting, but you see a safety that you graded as a late round 1 or 2, you may jump at the safety position. If you don't like any of the RBs you aren't going to draft one because you may not believe any of them can take the reigns and start in the future, you'd just be wasting a draft pick.
Click to expand...

As we sit here right now I think it will be 1 of 3 positions

RB
CB
S

But a lot will change when we learn what happens with Callahan and Amos.
 
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WindyCity said:
I am saying that Howard is gone in 2020.

I am drafting someone this year to groom, if he is better than Howard I would trade Howard at the deadline, if he isn't as a rookie then I simply let him learn and hopefully he takes over in 2020.

My depth chart would be

Howard
Cohen
Draft Pick, competing and learning
Mizzell vs Nall
Click to expand...

Got ya. I have no issue with that besides assuming Howard is gone in 2020. Howard did not lose talent after the '17 season going into '18. Nagy's use of him was weird, spotty and oscillated from sometimes knowing how to get good production out of him to almost avoiding him altogether.

My only point is that Nagy has to have Howard here next year and needs to adjust his scheme/blocking assignments upfront and philosophy to Howard's talents to get more good games from him (like the ones vs. GB, NYJ, MIN etc)

Now with that being said (and I believe agreed upon by you), it is possible that a new type of offense can be discovered here. A KC type passing game with a power run facet that could flex and challenge defenses.

So why assume Howard is gone? You know what you HAVE in Howard and Nagy should be able enough to run a productive running offense through him. But if you draft a depth guy to replace you might get a Langford-esque pick.
 
Outlaw Josey Cutler

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msadows said:
The concept is lost on these buffoons about drafting depth.

They are still living in the golden Phil Emery age of drafting football.

Wait till you have a hole to fix it desperately, and hope for the best.
Click to expand...

Whoa, whoa now that right there IS in fact a straw man.

Only thing worse than your posting is your reading comprehension.
 
Outlaw Josey Cutler

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WindyCity said:
As we sit here right now I think it will be 1 of 3 positions

RB
CB
S

But a lot will change when we learn what happens with Callahan and Amos.
Click to expand...

Based on what is available or need? Because I would think TE and RG and K would supercede RB imo.
 
WindyCity

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Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
Got ya. I have no issue with that besides assuming Howard is gone in 2020. Howard did not lose talent after the '17 season going into '18. Nagy's use of him was weird, spotty and oscillated from sometimes knowing how to get good production out of him to almost avoiding him altogether.

My only point is that Nagy has to have Howard here next year and needs to adjust his scheme/blocking assignments upfront and philosophy to Howard's talents to get more good games from him (like the ones vs. GB, NYJ, MIN etc)

Now with that being said (and I believe agreed upon by you), it is possible that a new type of offense can be discovered here. A KC type passing game with a power run facet that could flex and challenge defenses.

So why assume Howard is gone? You know what you HAVE in Howard and Nagy should be able enough to run a productive running offense through him. But if you draft a depth guy to replace you might get a Langford-esque pick.
Click to expand...

If you made me bet he is gone.

He will not be nearly as cheap as a guy on a rookie deal, he has been in decline for 3 straight years, and he does not really fit the offense as he can only run zone runs effectively.

We may also need to accept that because of his running style that he is going to get worse every season as he takes more and more pounding.
 
WindyCity

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Outlaw Josey Cutler said:
Based on what is available or need? Because I would think TE and RG and K would supercede RB imo.
Click to expand...

I think based on what is in the draft, it seems deep at those 3, and at this moment the Bears have serious needs at those positions.

TE and OG could also be on the table. It is a very talented TE draft so that might be the value as well.

But prior to free agency and not knowing what will happen with Amos and Callahan, I think the best odds is on both leaving, the Bears are going to need immediate competition to start at those spots.
 
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