Grade the Bears signings so far

Bearly

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We have tape that shows that Callahan excelled at the Nickel position. We don't quite know what Skrine has done recently at NB, but we do know that he is highly penalized CB that also allows for a high passer rating in recent years. Skrine did once play well at NB, and I certainly hope he returns to that form. But that's an if right now, and that's why I consider him a downgrade. I certainly hope I am wrong, but based on what I've seen from both players, I can't help but consider Skrine a drop off in talent.


I dunno. Larsen didn't perform well for us the last time around, and he was more highly touted back then. Not even sure if he would even be a fit anyway since he's a zone blocking OL, if I remember correctly. Although I hope to be wrong, I don't think Larsen has better availability. He missed half of 2017 on IR and he has lots of miles on his tread.

Skrine has great film from when he played inside and as for Larsen and Kush. 6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other. It's not just how often you get beat it how badly as well. When Kush got beat his guy appeared undetained. He just doesn't have the feet for this O. He also had better players flanking him while that happened. He was active for all but 1 game last season and didn't start any of the last 9 games when we needed help. They started Witzmann toward the end of the year instead of an available Kush. Team had seen enough. We all hope Larsen doesn't need to see the field beyond ST but the same could be said of Kush. If they were starter quality they wouldn't be on our bench.
 

Calabis

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We have tape that shows that Callahan excelled at the Nickel position. We don't quite know what Skrine has done recently at NB, but we do know that he is highly penalized CB that also allows for a high passer rating in recent years. Skrine did once play well at NB, and I certainly hope he returns to that form. But that's an if right now, and that's why I consider him a downgrade. I certainly hope I am wrong, but based on what I've seen from both players, I can't help but consider Skrine a drop off in talent.


I dunno. Larsen didn't perform well for us the last time around, and he was more highly touted back then. Not even sure if he would even be a fit anyway since he's a zone blocking OL, if I remember correctly. Although I hope to be wrong, I don't think Larsen has better availability. He missed half of 2017 on IR and he has lots of miles on his tread.

Skrine played great in Cleveland at the nickle spot....he was outside with Jets, so I believe he is back to where he shined. Also McManis was not bad and played well
 

nc0gnet0

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This is just silly to say. Plenty of guys play decently as depth.

Larsen tied for 7th in the NFL in pressure allowed. 4 sacks, 6 hits and 29 hurries. Those are abysmal for an inside Lineman. The only reason he wasn't first overall is because the guys ahead of him played more pass rush snaps than he did. If you calculate his pressure per snap and give him the same number of snaps as the guys ahead of him he would easily have lead the NFL in pressure allowed.

The reason he gets a D is because he is just expected to be depth. If he were expected to be a starter, the signing would be an F because the dude was shit last year.

The dude can be cut in Training camp and only has 90,000 guaranteed. he is a camp body competing for a third string roster spot. Hell, even I can see the value in that. Now ask me what I think of Ha Ha.......lol
 

gwharris2254

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I gave the dude a D because he is below average even as a backup. If you put a backup in there and he gives up league leading pressure then how is that a good signing?



Some of these guys are just weird. It is like we are suppose to be happy that a dude that sucks got a chance to start because of injury and thus grade him highly because of it. The dude sucked when he played.



I didn't ignore cap space or who else was available. There were other guys available that weren't one of the league leaders in giving up pressure. You could also potentially find a late draft pick or UDFA to develop for league minimum that hasn't already proven they suck.



Which still doesn't mean signing a guy that is one of the league leaders in giving up pressure is good. Like holy shit, if we sign Jamarcus Webb to be a backup, does that mean it is a good signing just because he was cheap? We just ignore the fact he sucks? Ted Larsen sucks.



There is nothing to Vortex out of. Based on his actual historical play last year he sucks. If he has a great year next year then he will no longer suck and my opinion will be revised. Until then all I can go off of is the fact that he gave up a ton of pressure last year and thus he sucks.



If you sign a bad player then the signing sucks. You are better off drafting or getting someone who hasn't proven they suck in the hopes you get a cheap player that ends up being good. Rashad Coward is cheap and hasn't prove he sucks like Larsen has.

6 posters responded to AND later .... the swirling begins
 

gwharris2254

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Personally I feel that if the BEARs sign Houston AND garner a 4th and 5th round comp pick that they get at least an A- and when considering how little money we had two months ago I gotta give them an A.

If no Houston I think a B++ is aprropriate
 

Rory Sparrow

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Let me ask a question. What is your criteria for calling signing a backup a bad signing?

I don't know how you could "grade" an FA signing and ignore cap space and who else was available.
 

Bearly

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Add to that, future salary considerations and that unconsidered grading scenario just gets worse. General Managers, you know, manage. That's what you judge their actions on. Lucky or good, to this point in time, he's managed to do better in this FA period than I expected him to.

I'm glad he didn't sign a costly Kicker and hope he doesn't get into a bidding war for one. I get paying more to keep one that's working for you but I'm also fine with bringing some kids in and them fighting for it. Hopefully it's a lesson learned.

Not related to this FA but what he did with the kicker is overpay someone to take that variable out of ST for the new coach and we all know how that turned out.

Larsen is a backup/fringe starter but he's not worse than Kush.
 

Bearly

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The dude can be cut in Training camp and only has 90,000 guaranteed. he is a camp body competing for a third string roster spot. Hell, even I can see the value in that. Now ask me what I think of Ha Ha.......lol

and everyone knows individual success on the OL has a lot to do with who you play next to, your QB's ability to handle pressure plus scheme. Miami was rated 31st against the pass. They gave up 52 sacks so 4 by Larsen clearly shows him not to be the weak link Miami even if he didn't start every game while obviously not getting any center help like Kush did here. That team lost Pouncy in the offseason and his replacement C went down within a month.

Facts in a vacuum created by a vortex have little meaning.
 

Bearly

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Add to that, future salary considerations and that unconsidered grading scenario just gets worse. General Managers, you know, manage. That's what you judge their actions on. Lucky or good, to this point in time, he's managed to do better in this FA period than I expected him to.

I'm glad he didn't sign a Kicker and hope he doesn't get into a bidding war for one. I get paying more to keep one that's working for you but I'm fine with bringing some kids in and them fighting for it. Hopefully it's a lesson learned.

Not related to this FA but what Pace did with the kicker is overpay someone to take that variable out of ST and we all know how that turned out.
 

TheWinman

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i havent seen a lot of jets games, but most people ive heard on the radio, including joniak and thayer tonight seem to think Buster Skrine is one of the best nickel backs in the league and it was a huge signing for the bears. Then i come on here and virtually everyone thinks he's a bum. i guess we'll have to wait and see.


You seem conflicted. Trust the people who actually know the game and/or are former NFL players versus the armchair nickel backs. Nagy also said he was one of the best nickle backs in the game. The more people on here who think he is bad, the better I feel, because this board in general is wrong more than they are right.
 

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It's nice to finally be at a point where free agency is more for improving depth instead of filling holes.
Grading is based on contract and comparison to the player they are replacing.

Skrine: D He's certainly a drop off from Callahan at an ever increasingly important position. He didn't come that cheap either.

Davis: C+ Improvement over Mizzell and Cunningham, but he's still just a guy. A rookie could have filled his role for much cheaper.
Patterson: B+ Improves our bad kick return game, and the bottom of the RB and WR depth chart. Improvement over Bellamy and White.
Larsen: D Just a body. He couldn't stick the last time he was here, and he has more miles since then. I doubt he makes it past training camp.
Dix: A Could be an improvement over Amos, or could add different dimension. Very friendly contract.

Overall B-
The drop in ability from Larsen to Kush and Skrine to Callahan stop it from being a really good free agency. We improved in 4 areas: #3 RB, KR, #4 WR, and S. We got worse in 2 areas, backup guard and nickel back.

Not true about Callahan being a better nickel back than Buster. Buster when last played nickel (played outside corner with the Jets) was one of the best in the game. With our front 7, there is no reason he shouldn't become one again.
 

Bearly

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He played inside last year after showing he didn't belong outside the previous 2. Callahan had the better season but expect Skrine to do similarly in this D with maybe more splash plays.
 

gwharris2254

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...Then there is factoring in for the possibilities of Comp picks.

How much is a 4th and/or 5th worth to the team in potential ??

Potential is high like Skine and HaHaHa with Pagano and a great front 7

If it winds up that Pace navigated the river of losses/replacements and winds up with overall a Better Squad AND friggin a comp pick or two, the FA period should be considered at least a B
 

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I don't know how you could "grade" an FA signing and ignore cap space and who else was available.

Not sure where it said I ignored cap space and who else was available. There were guys available that were not at the top of the league for pressure surrendered. Or you could just draft someone and develop the depth. This was already mentioned. If you are telling me there were no affordable alternative for arguably the worst OL in the NFL then I question your sanity.

Larsen is a backup/fringe starter but he's not worse than Kush.

You mean aside from the fact that in 218 pass rush snaps Kush gave up 3 total pressures. Meanwhile in 458 pass rush snaps, Larsen gave up 39 pressures. If you project out Kush's pressure over 458 snaps so you can better compare to Larsen that would project out to 6.3 pressures compared to the 39 Larsen gave up.

How exactly does that not make him considerably worse than Kush? The dude again was one of the worst inside lineman in the NFL last year if not the worst. Kush was considerably better. You really think Larsen's linemates are the reason for a difference in pressure of about 33?

FYI, Larsen led the Dolphins in pressure. Others gave up more sacks but he again had 39 pressures in 458 pass rush snaps and the next worst Dolphins were Jesse Davis with 30 in 559 pash rush snaps and Travis Swanson with 28 in 400 pass rush snaps. So the dude was really fucking terrible. Inside pressure isn't just about sacks.

Kush was actually better in pass protection than all the Bears interior lineman on a per pass rush snap basis including Whitehair.
 

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Not sure, but I figure the skill of the QB, talent on the offense overall, scheme, and ability of the QB to get the ball out on time may factor into that somehow...
 

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Not enough to bridge a 33 pressure gap. If the numbers were reversed we would say Larsen was so much better than Kush last year.

FYI, RTs time in pocket was less than Trubs. Brock's was a tad slower but averages out to about the same as Trubs. Sometimes there is no excuse and the reason why a guy sucked is on him.
 

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Found a few nuggets that make me believe Skine might be a very good NB, JUST NOT A CB. There is hope he was a good signing

Speed, UTC's Skrine has unofficial 4.29 40 at NFL combine

Three-Cone Drill
The five best performances in history belong to Jeffrey Maehl (Oregon), Buster Skrine (Tennessee-Chattanooga), Scott Long (Louisville), Dane Sanzenbacher (Ohio State) and Daniel Sorensen (BYU).

60-Yard Shuttle
Cooks, Skrine and Sorensen found themselves in the top five of this drill the past nine years, joined by Oklahoma’s Jamell Fleming (10.75, 2012) and Louisville’s Damian Copeland (10.84, 2014).

He also had the second fastest 20 yard shuttle in 2011
Granted these are old numbers but he did show elite traits
 

Leon Sandcastle

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Found a few nuggets that make me believe Skine might be a very good NB, JUST NOT A CB. There is hope he was a good signing

Speed, UTC's Skrine has unofficial 4.29 40 at NFL combine

Three-Cone Drill
The five best performances in history belong to Jeffrey Maehl (Oregon), Buster Skrine (Tennessee-Chattanooga), Scott Long (Louisville), Dane Sanzenbacher (Ohio State) and Daniel Sorensen (BYU).

60-Yard Shuttle
Cooks, Skrine and Sorensen found themselves in the top five of this drill the past nine years, joined by Oklahoma’s Jamell Fleming (10.75, 2012) and Louisville’s Damian Copeland (10.84, 2014).
Granted these are old numbers but he did show elite traits

SausageBacon sighting
 

flabear

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Also note that two of our free agents were 1st round picks and both have been to the Pro bowl GO PACE!!! We just need a Houston to make it a solid A Free agency
 

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