Trout Signs 12/430

Diehardfan

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anotheridiot said:
I am not complaining, maybe you just constantly feel you need to correct me or take the opposite view. World series rings are not a priority with him.
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That Angel team really has a knack of investing a ton of money for very little yield.....Trout's been there like 8 years with only one trip to the post season. Apparently he likes the money, warmth and babes in LA....I guess I can't fault him for that.
 
CubsFaninMN

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Guys, you gotta remember that Trout isn't comparable to any of the current players in MLB. He's a once-in-a-generation talent. Not so much skills comparable, but talent comparable, to players like Ted Williams.

And I recall that, in the late 1980's, someone interviewing Ted Williams asked him how he thought he'd hit against the then-current crop of pitchers. He said he'd probably hit .280 or .290 against them. The interviewer sputtered and said that Williams had a career average of .344, were the new pitchers that good. Williams said no, but he was in his mid-60s and figured he wouldn't be able to hit quite as well as he did in his prime...

In other words, when you are watching a once-in-a-generation talent, the rulebook gets tossed out the window and you just take every decision as it comes and hope for the best. And some of the prior great players got traded or released by their teams, with the public reasoning that the player was getting too old to expect decent production from him going forward, and then had their best years with the teams that took a chance on them maintaining their production into their mid- to late 30s. Look at Nolan Ryan, or Frank Robinson.

Good on the Angels for nipping in the bud the whole question of where Trout would play during his best years. Now we know.

-Doug
 
CSF77

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anotheridiot said:
I am not complaining, maybe you just constantly feel you need to correct me or take the opposite view. World series rings are not a priority with him.
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Not taking a opposite view. Your view I don't agree with in regards to Trout. I can see how fans have been skewed by the whole age thing but remember we came from players roiding up and playing super human levels then a enforcement of rules then players that were super human no longer super human.

Trout, Bryant, Harper and Machado are the first wave of players brought into the league with the enforcement. I tend to believe that they are getting paid because these teams know that this is natural talent vs faked.
 
CSF77

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In context regarding fWAR.

Babe Ruth is the all time leader 168.4.
Bonds was a cheater at 164.4
Willie Mays 149.9.
Ty Cobb 149.3

These are the top 4 all time and 1 was a known cheat.

Ruth did his in 2503 games.

Mike Trout is #89 on the all time list in 1065 games. less than 1/2 of Ruth's.

Trout 4673 PA 64.6 fWAR or 1 fWAR per 72 PA
Ruth 10616 PA 167.4 fWAR or 1 per 63.04 PA.
Mays 12493 PA 149.9 fWAR or 1 per 83.342 PA
Williams 9791 PA 130.4 fWAR or 1 per 75.14 PA

So are we seeing a trend here. He is doing something only the greatest players in history could do.

Even Bonds Juiced and all 12606 PA 164.4 fWAR 1 per 76.67 PA. He had to cheat to even get into this conversation.
 
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CSF77 said:
In context regarding fWAR.

Babe Ruth is the all time leader 168.4.
Bonds was a cheater at 164.4
Willie Mays 149.9.
Ty Cobb 149.3

These are the top 4 all time and 1 was a known cheat.

Ruth did his in 2503 games.

Mike Trout is #89 on the all time list in 1065 games. less than 1/2 of Ruth's.

Trout 4673 PA 64.6 fWAR or 1 fWAR per 72 PA
Ruth 10616 PA 167.4 fWAR or 1 per 63.04 PA.
Mays 12493 PA 149.9 fWAR or 1 per 83.342 PA
Williams 9791 PA 130.4 fWAR or 1 per 75.14 PA

So are we seeing a trend here. He is doing something only the greatest players in history could do.

Even Bonds Juiced and all 12606 PA 164.4 fWAR 1 per 76.67 PA. He had to cheat to even get into this conversation.
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Trout could retire tomorrow and he is a hall of
Famer


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
CSF77

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Add to that the active leader in HR's is Pujos. Allegedly...633 and I'm guessing that he is trying to cement a HOF bid right now. But with suspect numbers early on and his current value being negitive value I believe that he should hang it up before it goes south for him. Right now he is avg 1 fWAR per 132.6 PA which is crap and hugely from this post roid era production.

2010 was his last 5+ WAR season. 2013 was the year that PED tested in season randomly. 2012 he put up a 3.3 fWAR He has put up 3.5 over 5 seasons post random testing.

Anyone who believes that that was not enhanced and this is just a normal thing needs to wake up.
 

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CSF77 said:
Trout put up 2× the fWAR that Machado and Harper did. If you combined both it was less. He posted a 197 wRC+ which is basically what 2 avg every day starters produce.

If anything he is underpaid.
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I understand and don't disagree in theory with anything you said.

Here's where WAR and those who love or live by it fall apart. There are 24 other guys on the team and there's a payroll limitation to every team. Trout is going to take up 15-20% of the team's payroll for the next decade plus. A team can only rely on guys on rookie contracts performing good to great at so many spots and for so few years. And how many can you really hope for, 6, maybe 8. A title contending team is probably paying at least 60 M to its top 3 starters, 25 M to set up and closer, and 60 M to three more bats for the line up. 36 for Trout, 4 for your rookie deal guys, and 145 for the aforementioned players and you have 185 M and 8 more guys to pay. It can be done but it's damn hard.
 

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CSF77 said:
Add to that the active leader in HR's is Pujos. Allegedly...633 and I'm guessing that he is trying to cement a HOF bid right now. But with suspect numbers early on and his current value being negitive value I believe that he should hang it up before it goes south for him. Right now he is avg 1 fWAR per 132.6 PA which is crap and hugely from this post roid era production.

2010 was his last 5+ WAR season. 2013 was the year that PED tested in season randomly. 2012 he put up a 3.3 fWAR He has put up 3.5 over 5 seasons post random testing.

Anyone who believes that that was not enhanced and this is just a normal thing needs to wake up.
Click to expand...

You need more proof than what you presented. You sound like a bitter Cardinal hater.

Albert is a dead lock 1st ballot HOF unless something comes out specifically on a positive drug test.
 
CSF77

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brett05 said:
You need more proof than what you presented. You sound like a bitter Cardinal hater.

Albert is a dead lock 1st ballot HOF unless something comes out specifically on a positive drug test.
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Sosa never popped either.
 
CSF77

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brett05 said:
The topic is Albert Pujols that you brought up. Let's rectify that one before moving to another player.
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I think I posted enough info to place him into a box.

I could say the same with a 1B on Det. But at least he came down from a 8 fWAR to a 5 post random tests.

Look I would love to data crunch this because IMO this is something interesting to discuss and to see if there is a correlation with the random test implementation. But alas at work ATM
 
CSF77

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The other scenerio is he got paid and stopped giving a damn. I got mine mentality.

Look that is 100% worse IMO.

I get cheating to justify a paycheck. It was the nature of the business at that time and when you are talking 200M a suspension is a small price.

But post payday means 100% paycheck loss over a gamble

That is what I believed happened and he never got caught and the reward was already attained.

The fact that his production nose dived after his paycheck and after random testing it is pretty niave to overlook it.

But I am interested in this and I think illook at some players at that junction. 2013 is when random testing started. That is the starting point. I would think it would take a year at least to clean out completely and become natural.
 

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CSF77 said:
The other scenerio is he got paid and stopped giving a damn. I got mine mentality.

Look that is 100% worse IMO.

I get cheating to justify a paycheck. It was the nature of the business at that time and when you are talking 200M a suspension is a small price.

But post payday means 100% paycheck loss over a gamble

That is what I believed happened and he never got caught and the reward was already attained.

The fact that his production nose dived after his paycheck and after random testing it is pretty niave to overlook it.

But I am interested in this and I think illook at some players at that junction. 2013 is when random testing started. That is the starting point. I would think it would take a year at least to clean out completely and become natural.
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You have to show correlation which you have not to date.
Albert has always been clean
You have no medical knowledge based upon your own admission in your last statement.

Albert will walk in with an easy 90%+ of the vote. No doubt about it.
 

Castor76

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Alex Rodriguez never tested positive and still got suspended because a drug dealer said he gave him drugs.

Personally, I could give two shits who used what before it was banned. It's not as if the League didn't know the drugs existed and most people really didn't care. Should they ban the laser eye surgery that gave players better than 20/20 vision? The line between allowed and not allowed is so blurry you'd need my glasses to catch a glimpse of it.
 
CSF77

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brett05 said:
You have to show correlation which you have not to date.
Albert has always been clean
You have no medical knowledge based upon your own admission in your last statement.

Albert will walk in with an easy 90%+ of the vote. No doubt about it.
Click to expand...

Pujos has never failed a test. Saying that he has always been clean holds as much weight as saying Sammy was clean because he never failed a test.

That is why I said Sammy and you deflected it away.

Neither were dirty. You put 1 in you put the other.

Peroid
 

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CSF77 said:
Pujos has never failed a test. Saying that he has always been clean holds as much weight as saying Sammy was clean because he never failed a test.

That is why I said Sammy and you deflected it away.

Neither were dirty. You put 1 in you put the other.

Peroid
Click to expand...

Sammy was in a report, called to Congress and quickly forgot how to speak.
Nothing on Albert.

FTR, I still put Sammy in, but Albert >>>> Sammy
 
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