Yes
No
To me, Carmelo is the best of the non-elite players. Anyone who refuses to play help-side defense and chucks shots at terrible times cannot really be classified as an elite basketball player.
Yea, The best of the non-elite... wouldn't hurt having him but like I said I think that Noah was a big factor in the 62 win season.Originally Posted by RamiTheBullsFan
Um, never would have happened. Melo wanted to be a Knick.
We're better off asking ourselves if we should have traded Bogans for a clone of prime Michael Jordan, the chances of that happening would have been the same.
Your crazy lady. I wouldn't make this trade even if I was getting Eva Mendez out of the deal.... Ok, ONLY if I was getting Eva Mendez out of the deal.
Love Jimi.
lol if you think Melo isn't good. He's a Top 3 all-around scorer in the NBA.
Not many people would be dumb enough to say he isn't good. To me, he is very good overall. He's just no LeBron James or Dwyane Wade.
I'd still do that trade. Melo is a big time player and Asik is a capable starting Center. Its also easy to get another good piece with the MLE or draft, you will never add a Melo type without consolidating talent.
I also don't think Denver would have taken that offer. They didn't take any significant salaries on. Its apples and Oranges to our offer. Plus they have a center in Nene.
In the same train of thought, I'd happily do Boozer and Noah for Howard in a heartbeat. Just slide Taj to PF and wait for Mirtoic to come over. Sign a SG and backup PF in the meanwhile.
The Chicago Bulls: It was a business move!
There have been a LOT elite players who refused to play help-side defense and chucked up bad shots...there would have been no hype if Carmelo wasn't elite. He is better than 98-99% of the league overall...that is pretty damn elite...
And I will say it again...nobody should pat themselves on the back if you backed keeping Noah, when Noah was sitting on the bench during crunch time of the ECF...
Right, because Carmelo Anthony was going to come in and save the series for the Bulls by making them a LOT worse of a defensive team than Miami and by chucking up shots with LeBron James guarding him. Joakim Noah never regained his timing after he missed 30 games and his consistent jump-shot was derailed by the injury as well. And then the ankle injury iced it.
If you want someone to blame for the Bulls losing, blame Boozer.
Derrick Rose + Carmelo + shitty Boozer with barely any depth sure as hell trumps Wade +James + Bosh + barely any depth... oh wait. That's horse shit.
As per the usual for you and this site what you said above is a simplistic pile of shit. You trade for Anthony so you have him Rose and Boozer for numerous seasons and continue to build around and acquire players around them. WOuld it have made a difference last season? Most likely not. I doubt the Bulls lose 4-1 but I don't see that team beating the Heat...but that's besides the point. This isn't a one year trade. It's a 5-7 year trade if you are the Bulls and you make the deal. Beating the Heat last season or not isn't the bigger issue or the bigger picture. it would be the acquisition of one of the NBA's top 5-10 players in his prime for the next 5-7 years to pair alongside Rose and Boozer(however long he holds up).
Last edited by FirstTimer; 11-14-2011 at 09:16 AM.
Noah played shitty because Noah played shitty...excuses my ass. And it was NOAH'S lack of defensive intensity and lackluster rebounding that had him sitting on the bench in favor of a 40 year old.
And stop with the Carmelo makes the Bulls a "LOT" worse stuff...that is ludicrous. Carmelo makes the Bulls a better offensive team. Lebron couldn't guard Rose with Melo on the floor. Melo could drop 40 on the Heat routinely playing with a guy like Rose. Making Lebron work on the other end supplants the lackluster defense you speak of. The Bulls were by far the best defensive team the Heat played...however...the Bulls didn't have 2 guys that could create a shot on their own...and Rose wasn't quite ready for the moment. I think Carmelo has proven he is more than prepared for the moment when it comes to clutch scoring.
And in the playoffs, especially the second half of the playoffs...Asik was the best defensive center the Bulls had...which is why, starting with the Atlanta series, Coach Thibs played Asik and Taj for long stretches in the fourth quarter.
The Bulls defense played well with Noah on the bench...the offense suffered because nobody but Rose could create off the dribble. Carmelo is a shot maker...a premiere shot maker, who has NO WEAKNESSES IN HIS GAME OFFENSIVELY...his presence would make Rose better...no doubt about that.
Yes, Carmelo Anthony would have made the Bulls a LOT worse and would have taken any hope for the Bulls to win the championship last year away. And they did have a very good chance whether or not you want to admit it to yourself or not.
Noah at 100% is a lot better than the Noah we saw post-injury and post-return. He has dominated Udonis Haslem, Joel Anthony, and was in Chris Bosh's head when he was at that 100% level. AND he was an offensive threat.
If Mike Miller and Udonis Haslem didn't come back, the Bulls might have won that series despite the fact Boozer and Noah were not at 100% and far from it. Making that trade would have absolutely gutted that team defensively and taken away their best rebounder (on the #1 rebounding team in the league).
Carmelo Anthony is not this superstar player. He has gotten owned by LeBron James, Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade and the actual stars of the league since basically his arrival in Denver. Building a team with the main core of Rose+Anthony+Boozer does not belong on the same planet as a core of James+Wade+Bosh. All 3 of the Miami core are much better individual and team defenders than the 3 of the Bulls' core. You can't just sacrifice team chemistry to build a star team and expect to win a championship. The way the pieces fit together for the Bulls is already a much better fundamentally-sound group than how Miami plays. Miami has 3 mid-range shooters in the half court as their entire way of attack. The Bulls have Luol Deng who plays well of the ball and doesn't chuck ridiculous shots, and is arguably the best wing defender in the entire league. Carmelo is one of the worst all-around defensive wings in the league.
The team is based on defense, so Melo would fuck things up chemistry wise.
Noah's passion plus his skills, give me that instead.
Luol Deng was the glue of the Bulls last year. Take him off and put Carmelo in his place and that pretty much turns the Bulls from a top defensive team into a very shaky and mediocre defensive team. The best defensive player who is not named Luol Deng would have been... Joakim Noah! And, guess what... if the Bulls trade both Noah and Deng for Carmelo you are basically losing your 2 best defenders for (and your best rebounder) for a guy who takes lower percentage shots and is a rather shitty all-around defensive player.
And how exactly is this Rose, Boozer, Anthony trio supposed to work offensively exactly? Let's assume Boozer is 100% (there's a joke). Then you basically have Anthony taking away all of Boozer's meaningful touches in the post because that is where Anthony demands the ball about half of the time. Boozer was not a good enough weapon in the pick and roll because (a) Miami and Boston defend the pick-and-roll better than almost any team in the league, if not all, and (b) because Rose simply isn't a very good pick-and-roll passer and that is not a viable offensive option. Your best bet is to throw Asik and/or Gibson along with Boozer at almost all times and the only way they are going to score is off of offensive rebounds because Anthony is basically a blackhole with the basketball. Not that Asik is going to give you much more than raw size on defense and the boards (foul prone and a liability on offense) anyway.
Yeah Noah looked realpassionate and I'm sure really helped chemistry riding the pine in crunch time of the ECF.
You're fucking delusional.
Tremendous argument. If the Heat don't get two key role players back the Bulls may have won!
Wow.
Yes he is.
Utter bullshit.
Melo and Lebron had some classic battles. One that comes to mind was the one in Cleveland during Bron's last season there.
Yeah. Because Boozer is the weak link. Melo isn't the issue there. Boozer is.
No WAI!
We saw how well that worked out when Miami was full strength.
I love how you are so damn concentrated on last season still when the point of getting Melo would have been to team him and Rose up for the better part of decade. It wasn't and still would not have been a one season proposition
But keep on with your absurd Noah love while he sits during crunch time during the most important games of the season.
Yeah because clearly as a Bulls fan we have never seen a multiple post offense work. Nor in a place like LA. Etc.
Is a double post/high low offense that outside of your ability when talking basketball?
Running a variant of the Flex/Motion offense with Boozer/Melo/Rose would have worked fine.
But that is apparently beyond you.
Rami again tards up a basketball thread.
I still can't believe Rami's arguement(as a "Bulls fan") is that trying to run a multiple post offense wouldn't work or would be an issue.
That is wortha million times over.
Carmelo vs Lebron
Carmelo Anthony vs. LeBron James | Basketball-Reference.com
Carmelo vs Wade
Carmelo Anthony vs. Dwyane Wade | Basketball-Reference.com
Carmelo vs Kobe
Carmelo Anthony vs. Kobe Bryant | Basketball-Reference.com
LOL at Rami not knowing what he is talking about(again). Melo is at or near career averages against all those guys and holds winning records against each of them except Kobe.
This is a guy who has shown that he can do a lot in terms of offense when he is at 100%. He was not at 100%. Noah is one of the best defensive players and rebounders in the league. And he completely destroyed the Cavs' front-line back in 2010 in that first round series. This is a guy who would have eaten Anthony and Haslem alive if either were forced to defend him. Noah did not have that explosive first step that allowed him to be that 15+ point scorer per-game that he has shown the ability to do while at 100%. And, regardless of what you want to claim post-thumb surgery, his jump-shot was pretty much on the money if he was uncovered last season. All of those things were taken away against the Heat.
And now the Heat will probably be forced to cut one of those players if the new CBA allows for it. They probably won't be able to even get Chalmers back. That team is not looking much better unless Wade/James/Bosh learn how to play together in an efficient way in a half-court set. They were completely unable to do that last year, and the Bulls should like their chances going forward if the Heat do not improve as a team and decide what their bread-and-butter diet of offense will be in close games down-the-stretch.argument. If the Heat don't get two key role players back the Bulls may have won!
He is arguably the most natural scorer in the game, but the problem is that he forces up terrible contested jumps-shots too often. A lot of the time, it has worked for him but he is far from consistent. He is not able to get into the lane like LeBron or Wade and get to the line at will. This isn't exactly the smartest offensive player in the league. When was the last time a team won a championship with a great scorer who was as unwilling of a passer as Anthony? Bryant was a very good passer. Wade was a very capable passer due to his penetration ability. Jordan was a great and willing passer. Bird was. Kareem was. Chamberlain was a willing passer. Duncan, Ginobili, and Parker were all willing passers. Olajuwon was a willing passer. Anthony isn't. The main thing Anthony would do is take away shots from Rose for better or worse. And Rose has proven that he is a smarter offensive player than Carmelo Anthony.Yes he is.
Oh, please. Anthony made it passed the first round a grand total of one time in his career only to be smoked by Kobe Bryant in the WCF back in '09. Going to force a trade to play alongside Amare Stoudemire pretty much shows how smart of a player he is. Let's go play for the Knicks to play in a tempo that is completely not my style and to play with another guy who likes to shoot from the exact same spots on the floor as I do. And let's just forget the fact that the only decent rebounder for his position on that entire team is Landry Fields...Utter bullshit.
Melo and Lebron had some classic battles. One that comes to mind was the one in Cleveland during Bron's last season there.
Trading for Anthony would have meant that the Bulls would have been stuck with both of them. Two forwards who are very good rebounders but do not play ANY, and I mean any, team defense at all. And neither is a particularly good man-to-man defender either.Yeah. Because Boozer is the weak link. Melo isn't the issue there. Boozer is.
No WAI!
The Bulls weren't at full strength and they nearly knotted the series at 2 games, and had a 12-pt lead with just over 3:00 to go. If the Heat were any weaker or if the Bulls were any stronger in terms of the health of Noah and Boozer then that could have easily ended up a 3-2 Bulls lead going into Game 6 in Miami.We saw how well that worked out when Miami was full strength.
I love how you are so damn concentrated on last season still when the point of getting Melo would have been to team him and Rose up for the better part of decade. It wasn't and still would not have been a one season proposition
But keep on with your absurd Noah love while he sits during crunch time during the most important games of the season.
I certainly wasn't opposed to getting Carmelo Anthony but hindsight is a funny thing because the Bulls really had no reason to believe that Miller and Haslem would miraculously show up for the first time all season and playoffs-long. That Anthony trade would have killed their chances to win that series no matter what. It is very arguable whether or not losing Deng and Noah could have eventually been worth it to gain Anthony because Deng has upside over Anthony on both offense and defense in terms of the things he brings to the table for the Bulls. Anthony likes to dribble into shots while Deng likes to shoot off of screens. Obviously, that could have changed if Anthony would have accepted coaching but when has he or any of the Denver Nuggets players accepted coaching? Not to mention, losing Noah, who is going to be a top 10 center in the league for at least another 10 years if he stays healthy. He could end up being better than every other center besides Dwight Howard if he developed a low-post game. The only Miami Heat player with any room to grow is LeBron James and who knows if he will ever become a force with his back to the basket.
Regular season wins sure does mean a lot, right?
Oh wait... it doesn't.
Wade is far and beyond better as a player than Anthony. That is not even up for debate.
Bryant still is somewhat better than Anthony overall still. Despite his age and decline.
LeBron is so much better than Anthony, it is almost ridiculous.
It was never only the matter of the offense. You could have Melo in the high-post on one side and have Boozer in the low-post on the other side (with Asik stinking it up in the middle). The problem is that that offense is not looking all that much, if any better than it would have been with Noah-Boozer-Deng. And the loss on defense would be undeniable. The loss on the boards would also hurt.
Last edited by RamiTheBullsFan; 11-14-2011 at 01:24 PM.
Scottie Pippen and Michael Jordan were both post-up players who had point guard skills. The versatility of the Bulls and Lakers players is what allowed for that multi-option offense to work the way it did. Carlos Boozer (assuming he isn't hurt, as always) is a pure low-post scorer with not much meaningful passing skills and Carmelo Anthony has zero point guard ability. The Bulls' offense would be extremely easy to figure out because each player can only do a limited amount on offense.
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