Time For "The Great" Kenny Williams To Go?

DewsSox79 · Aug 20, 2011

icehogfan08 said:
http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/315382-post6.html

thats not ADD though. That sounds like a player that wants to play the field. I highly doubt playing the field is his actual problem though since he has no increase in any category while actually playing 1st base, an actual substantial increase whatsoever, and he has started a good amount of games lately and is still the same dunn.

Uman85 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
thats not ADD though. That sounds like a player that wants to play the field. I highly doubt playing the field is his actual problem though since he has no increase in any category while actually playing 1st base, an actual substantial increase whatsoever, and he has started a good amount of games lately and is still the same dunn.

I know what it is. He's a country boy and just can't hack it in the big city.

DewsSox79 · Aug 20, 2011

icehogfan08 said:
I wouldn't want to have someone who deosn't want to DH come in and be a DH, and has stated he wouldn't want to do it.

Vlad has stated he never wanted to DH and how were his numbers afterwards, I mean he said he didnt want to DH and he still did the job.

icehogfan08 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
thats not ADD though. That sounds like a player that wants to play the field. I highly doubt playing the field is his actual problem though since he has no increase in any category while actually playing 1st base, an actual substantial increase whatsoever, and he has started a good amount of games lately and is still the same dunn.

I never said it was fully ADD, I remembered something about the attention span. Either way, if a guy is saying he doesn't want to DH because of his attention like that, then why come do it. Stupid move.

icehogfan08 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
Vlad has stated he never wanted to DH and how were his numbers afterwards, I mean he said he didnt want to DH and he still did the job.

If Vlad wanted money he was going to have to take that role

HawkyTalky · Aug 20, 2011

the_chicago_fan said:
Yeah. You're right. Being in the division race the last 3 years isn't good enough. Don't expect your team to win the fucking world series every year. It doesn't work that way. Bad years happen. Be happy that we actually have a chance.

C'mon guy. Are your standards really that low? Are division titles good enough for you? Because they aren't good enough for me.

I want a team that is a LEGIT contender every year like the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, Cardinals, and Braves. I don't want a team that is just satisified contending for division titles. What are we now? The fucking Baltimore Orioles?

KW and the Sox obviously had you fooled. They haven't been legit contnenders since they last won the World Series. There were GAPING holes on this team the last several years. Sure no team is perfect and every team has flaws but, the Sox flaws were major.

Need examples? Here's two just to start off with. The bullpen and DH...those have been two achilles' heels for the Sox the last several years. And that's just two examples.

Is it too much to ask for your team to build off of their World Series victory and you know, actually win it all again within the same window?

I want my team to be legit contenders for championships every year like the teams I mentioned above....is that too much to ask? With this GM and on-field coaching staff that's just not possible.

You start off with a good farm system. KW and his people have already failed at that. Then you make smart, prudent moves in trades/free agency. While KW has made some good ones over the years, he had made FAR MORE bad ones particularly in the last 3 seasons.

Then you have your young players and acquisitions managed by a smart on-field coaching staff. And I'm not even going to go there. KW and his manager can't even see eye-to-eye on team philosophy. Then KW gives his incompetent manager incompetent players that he isn't even comfortable managing.

All of this is and has been a recipe for disaster. And it will continue to slide further and further unless something is done.

the_chicago_fan said:
What moves are you talking about? Some are his fault, but not everything is his fault. He has gone after good players that haven't played well here because Greg Walker is awful.

You'll never understand my point anyway. Just go back to watching the Hawks. You'll be happy with them. They win.

Oh and don't tell me what I should be watching. I've probably been a Sox fan for longer than you've been alive.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 20, 2011

HawkyTalky said:
C'mon guy. Are your standards really that low? Are division titles good enough for you? Because they aren't good enough for me.

I want a team that is a LEGIT contender every year like the Red Sox, Yankees, Phillies, Cardinals, and Braves. I don't want a team that is just satisified contending for division titles. What are we now? The fucking Baltimore Orioles?

KW and the Sox obviously had you fooled. They haven't been legit contnenders since they last won the World Series. There were GAPING holes on this team the last several years. Sure no team is perfect and every team has flaws but, the Sox flaws were major.

Need examples? Here's two just to start off with. The bullpen and DH...those have been two achilles' heels for the Sox the last several years. And that's just two examples.

Is it too much to ask for your team to build off of their World Series victory and you know, actually win it all again within the same window?

I want my team to be legit contenders for championships every year like the teams I mentioned above....is that too much to ask? With this GM and on-field coaching staff that's just not possible.

You start off with a good farm system. KW and his people have already failed at that. Then you make smart, prudent moves in trades/free agency. While KW has made some good ones over the years, he had made FAR MORE bad ones particularly in the last 3 seasons.

Then you have your young players and acquisitions managed by a smart on-field coaching staff. And I'm not even going to go there. KW and his manager can't even see eye-to-eye on team philosophy. Then KW gives his incompetent manager incompetent players that he isn't even comfortable managing.

All of this is and has been a recipe for disaster. And it will continue to slide further and further unless something is done.

Oh and don't tell me what I should be watching. I've probably been a Sox fan for longer than you've been alive.

I would love to see the Sox win the World Series. That would be awesome. I would love to see them be contenders every year, but not every team can do that. The Yankees, Phillies, and Red Sox all have one thing in common: money. That's something the Sox don't have. They have also have better coaching staffs and have won out in the free agent market because of MONEY. The other teams you mentioned aren't even contenders every year. The Cardinals won in 2006 and since then haven't been that great. They've been as good as the Sox since then. The Braves haven't been much in the recent past either.

Firing Williams right now isn't going to do anything. The team needs to take baby steps. First, fire the coaching staff that sucks. Then, get some better coaches and maybe a couple good free agents.

This team can win with KW as the GM. His moves have gone wrong because of the coaching staff. He is to blame for our bad farm system and I'll admit that. I just don't buy the fact that firing him would solve all the problems. The next guy might be worse.

brett05 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
right, because he DIDNT make a 3 way call. If you actually can go back more than 1 day in your memory, you will remember KW stating that there was a deal in place and Rizzo back out of the deal minutes before the deadline.

If there was a three way call, which there wasn't, there would have been a three way trade. Not a single trade with one followed by another single trade with another

Come on Dews. You seem to be too smart to miss this. Is Kenny a relative or something?

DewsSox79 · Aug 20, 2011

icehogfan08 said:
If Vlad wanted money he was going to have to take that role

thats not the point. He still suceeded as a DH coming off of a full time defensive position.

brett05 said:
If there was a three way call, which there wasn't, there would have been a three way trade. Not a single trade with one followed by another single trade with another

Come on Dews. You seem to be too smart to miss this. Is Kenny a relative or something?

how do we know or not know there was a three way call or not. We dont. We can only go by what KW stated.

As far as this thread, and blaming KW for everything....is a bit much.

There are a ton of GMs who make mistakes and miss on guys, and the guys that are missed on are amplified x100 to the fans and the media. Obviously he found something in Humber, we arent where we are at if he isnt here. Ohman was fine ( once again a loogey pitcher ) being used by the manager 100% in the wrong way. The roster this year are kennys moves. CQ deal was a win, Rios a loss, Pierre looks like a win ( what ELY doing these days? )Morel is a Win ( Again if dunn and rios are hitting, we arent talking about the lack of power from morel, defense was the reason he was on the roster) Alexei is a win, Beckham is now a lost cause, Konerko resigning was a win, Aj resigning was a win ( The bullpen now that it is being used the correct way is a huge win) The starting pitching besides Peavy has been fine. ( john danks was acquired for Brandon Mccarthy**** just a side note)

Everyone had their hand in the pot for the failure of this team. Especially the coaching staff.

Any of the ozzie defenders please state your case now

brett05 · Aug 20, 2011

the_chicago_fan said:
Firing Williams right now isn't going to do anything.

It at a minimum keeps Hahn in the system

CODE_BLUE56 · Aug 20, 2011

while i do think KW is better than Hendry(and i think a little more of the blame goes to Walker and Ozzie for having issues with developing certain players and making sure players have a good transition period into the sox team.)

i do think its a little hypocritical for people to attack hendry for making some bad moves..but then when KW makes bad moves state that he deserves none of the blame..but thats jmo

do i think Kw should be fired? hard to say...but i think walker and ozzie need to go first and foremost before any other personnel moves are made

and im not completely blaming KW either...but if you think he doesnt deserve any of the blame for some of the questionable moves that he was mostly directing(peavy,rios,etc.) then idk what to tell you

TheChicagoFan · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
how do we know or not know there was a three way call or not. We dont. We can only go by what KW stated.

As far as this thread, and blaming KW for everything....is a bit much.

There are a ton of GMs who make mistakes and miss on guys, and the guys that are missed on are amplified x100 to the fans and the media. Obviously he found something in Humber, we arent where we are at if he isnt here. Ohman was fine ( once again a loogey pitcher ) being used by the manager 100% in the wrong way. The roster this year are kennys moves. CQ deal was a win, Rios a loss, Pierre looks like a win ( what ELY doing these days? )Morel is a Win ( Again if dunn and rios are hitting, we arent talking about the lack of power from morel, defense was the reason he was on the roster) Alexei is a win, Beckham is now a lost cause, Konerko resigning was a win, Aj resigning was a win ( The bullpen now that it is being used the correct way is a huge win) The starting pitching besides Peavy has been fine. ( john danks was acquired for Brandon Mccarthy**** just a side note)

Everyone had their hand in the pot for the failure of this team. Especially the coaching staff.

Any of the ozzie defenders please state your case now

:clap:

It's easy to focus on the negatives when the team isn't doing that great, but KW has actually done some really good things to help this team.

The coaching staff is to blame for most of the problems.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 20, 2011

CODE_BLUE56 said:
while i do think KW is better than Hendry(and i think a little more of the blame goes to Walker and Ozzie for having issues with developing certain players and making sure players have a good transition period into the sox team.)

i do think its a little hypocritical for people to attack hendry for making some bad moves..but then when KW makes bad moves state that he deserves none of the blame..but thats jmo

do i think Kw should be fired? hard to say...but i think walker and ozzie need to go first and foremost before any other personnel moves are made

and im not completely blaming KW either...but if you think he doesnt deserve any of the blame for some of the questionable moves that he was mostly directing(peavy,rios,etc.) then idk what to tell you

This is kind of how I feel. I'm not saying that KW is perfect. I'm not saying that he hasn't made stupid moves. I'm saying that he isn't the one who should be fired right now.

brett05 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
how do we know or not know there was a three way call or not. We dont. We can only go by what KW stated.

Because the phone call to MLB offices would be either conferences in or the individual call from the White Sox would have been the details there of. If kw said he made the three way call he's a liar or he has no clue what a conference call is. Either are fireable offenses

As far as this thread, and blaming KW for everything....is a bit much.

he has done a lot of good. His time has come though

DewsSox79 · Aug 20, 2011

CODE_BLUE56 said:
while i do think KW is better than Hendry(and i think a little more of the blame goes to Walker and Ozzie for having issues with developing certain players and making sure players have a good transition period into the sox team.)

i do think its a little hypocritical for people to attack hendry for making some bad moves..but then when KW makes bad moves state that he deserves none of the blame..but thats jmo

do i think Kw should be fired? hard to say...but i think walker and ozzie need to go first and foremost before any other personnel moves are made

and im not completely blaming KW either...but if you think he doesnt deserve any of the blame for some of the questionable moves that he was mostly directing(peavy,rios,etc.) then idk what to tell you

of course I blame him for Rios who has had a track record of being inconsistent and a pain in the ass who likes to party while he was in toronto.

yes I blame him for paying a lot of money for a pitcher ( who at the time was on the DL, allbeit an ankle injury ) even though 65% of his money is insured.

I do blame him for not nutting up and telling JR to drop his loyalty to ozzie, and fire one of the worst in game managers in the American League.

I will continue to back the Dunn signing all day long. You cannot blame him for signing him even with the "i dont want to be DH, I have a short attention span" fodder. Players ALL the time say, I dont want to DH, I dont want to pitch in the AL, and they do, and are successful.

And no to whoever stated that Dunn isnt in his pime and is too old, he is fucking 31.

CODE_BLUE56 · Aug 20, 2011

DewsSox79 said:
of course I blame him for Rios who has had a track record of being inconsistent and a pain in the ass who likes to party while he was in toronto.

yes I blame him for paying a lot of money for a pitcher ( who at the time was on the DL, allbeit an ankle injury ) even though 65% of his money is insured.

I do blame him for not nutting up and telling JR to drop his loyalty to ozzie, and fire one of the worst in game managers in the American League.

I will continue to back the Dunn signing all day long. You cannot blame him for signing him even with the "i dont want to be DH, I have a short attention span" fodder. Players ALL the time say, I dont want to DH, I dont want to pitch in the AL, and they do, and are successful.

And no to whoever stated that Dunn isnt in his pime and is too old, he is fucking 31.

the whole dunn situation is puzzling to say the least...his numbers have been absolutely awful...seems like an anomaly..but i think part of it may be adjusting to the AL,new lineup,etc.....some players handle it differently...it just depends...

plus baseball is much more mental,about timing,and has arguably more variation in production because the production is dependent on when,how,where you hit a ball with a stick going 94 mph....i think thats partly why its good to have a long season..larger sample size is a better indication of the true value of a player...

i do agree that dunn isnt that old....i think he may be declining a little(once you get past 30 or 31...it becomes a little more difficult to sustain peak production..some athletes can do it because they play by relying less on athleticism or simply change their style of play accordingly..of course in baseball i think athleticism is relied on a bit less than football and basketball so that helps)

nwfisch · Aug 20, 2011

Chicago Tribune Live did a great comparison of Thome's numbers the last two years to Kotsay's/Dunn's. Beat those 2 by quite a bit.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 20, 2011

nwfisch said:
Chicago Tribune Live did a great comparison of Thome's numbers the last two years to Kotsay's/Dunn's. Beat those 2 by quite a bit.

That's an obvious one. Thome was good. That wasn't a great move, but Kenny was trying to prepare for the future. He knew Thome didn't have tons of gas left in him.

nwfisch · Aug 20, 2011

the_chicago_fan said:
That's an obvious one. Thome was good. That wasn't a great move, but Kenny was trying to prepare for the future. He knew Thome didn't have tons of gas left in him.

No it was Ozzie's decision on Thome. I see why Ozzie moved on, but you have to wonder if it was 2/3 years too soon.

DewsSox79 · Aug 20, 2011

nwfisch said:
Chicago Tribune Live did a great comparison of Thome's numbers the last two years to Kotsay's/Dunn's. Beat those 2 by quite a bit.

Ozzie made that choice. He wanted an extra arm in the pen and wanted a rotating DH.

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