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Thread: Update- Santo in! 15 of 16 votes

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    1-888-NEED-HIM brett05's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    That's because the voters are inconsistent. The way to think about players has shifted and as younger and more progressive journalists acquire votes more underappreciated players will be voted in not because of how many clutch hits or playoff moments they had, or how nice they were, but because they were good at baseball.
    The journalists are done voting for Ron. I understand what you are saying, but it has not and won't happen unless players can be voted by journalists indefinitely instead of 15 years (I think)
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    World Series Dreaming Rice Cube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    The journalists are done voting for Ron. I understand what you are saying, but it has not and won't happen unless players can be voted by journalists indefinitely instead of 15 years (I think)
    Depends on how many of the "old guard" retire and/or die off, I guess.

    Ron Santo's fate is in the hands of a special committee. Needs 12 or more votes out of 16 but he has plenty of support. Too bad if it does happen he won't be around to enjoy it.

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    v. 2.0: Fully Modded FirstTimer's Avatar
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    Santo's biggest enemy was himself. He was a complete assbag to the writers and other players at the time. Really hurt him. I also know his constant campaigning hurt his chances as well as it chaffed voters.

    Think voters don't hold grudges?

    Roberto Alomar should have been an easy lock as a first ballot. He spit on an ump and had to wait a season.

    Santo should be in the HOF no doubt. He was clearly the second best 3B when he played, but he fucked himself.

    LOL at brett drawing a correlation between wanting Harold Baines in and wanting Santo in. They aren't even comparable situations relative to what each player did in his career and his era.
    Last edited by FirstTimer; 11-30-2011 at 03:14 PM.

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    World Series Dreaming Rice Cube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    Santo's biggest enemy was himself. He was a complete assbag to the writers and other players at the time. Really hurt him. I also know his constant campaigning hurt his chances as well as it chaffed voters.

    Think voters don't hold grudges?

    Roberto Alomar should have been an easy lock as a first ballot. He spit on an ump and had to wait a season.

    Santo should be in the HOF no doubt. He was clearly the second best 3B when he played, but he fucked himself.
    Yup...the reason he's never been inducted is almost purely political.

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    1-888-NEED-HIM brett05's Avatar
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    But just because he was second best doesn't mean you get in.

    Im reminded of the quote, "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king." That doesn't mean the King is an elite "vision person."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    Yup...the reason he's never been inducted is almost purely political.
    Except for the numbers he put up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    LOL at brett drawing a correlation between wanting Harold Baines in and wanting Santo in. They aren't even comparable situations relative to what each player did in his career and his era.
    Really? Both had something physical ailments. Both were seen as among the very best at what they did at the time.
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    World Series Dreaming Rice Cube's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Except for the numbers he put up.
    Which are great.

    Ron Santo Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

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    World Series Dreaming Rice Cube's Avatar
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    Harold Baines may have had more homers but he wasn't even as good as Andre Dawson, who probably shouldn't be a Hall of Famer but is anyway.

    Harold Baines Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

    At the end of the day it's a pretty subjective argument, but Ron Santo is better than Harold Baines.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    Harold Baines may have had more homers but he wasn't even as good as Andre Dawson, who probably shouldn't be a Hall of Famer but is anyway.

    Harold Baines Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

    At the end of the day it's a pretty subjective argument, but Ron Santo is better than Harold Baines.
    I wouldn't use Baines vs Santo nim using it as Baines vs contemporaries and Santo vs contemporaries.

    Dawson is absolutely a HOF
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    Fairly average Away from the Confines
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    Senior Member Lex L.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    Yup...the reason he's never been inducted is almost purely political.
    Please don't quote FirstTimer. He/she is such a mouthbreather. Only someone like him would blame the player for how he treated the media when it's the media's job to weigh who should be in on the merit of what they did and not based on whether he was nice to them. If that's seriously the issue, then why is the media not being blamed for not doing their jobs?

    Seriously, FirstTimer is one of the biggest dipshits here. Too bad he's too stupid to realize it.
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  13. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Really?
    Yes, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Both had something physical ailments. Both were seen as among the very best at what they did at the time.
    False.

    Baines played 22 seasons. He made 6 All Star teams.

    Santo played 15 seasons. Made 9 All star teams. Won 5 Gold Gloves. Wasn't considered the best 3B of his time. Brooks Robinson owns that honor.
    Santo was also in the Top 10 of the MVP voting 4 times. Baines twice. Santo was in the top 5 twice. Baines...never.

    The black ink and gray ink stats relative to their peers isn't even close. Santo was better. Baines career numbers look nice but he was a classic case of a stat compiler. For the last 10-12 years of his career he floated around colleting hits and middling stat totals. Props to him for the longevity but even at his peak Santo was better relative to their era's.

    LOL at comparing their "ailments". Santo had diabetes at a time when it was virutally untreatable(compared to today)..it helped end his career and basically it eventually killed him. Baines had bad knees. Santo's "ailment" caused his legs to be removed at the knees.

  14. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by brett05 View Post
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    Fairly average Away from the Confines
    ZOMG! So are some other HOF'ers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex L. View Post
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    Please don't quote FirstTimer. He/she is such a mouthbreather. Only someone like him would blame the player for how he treated the media when it's the media's job to weigh who should be in on the merit of what they did and not based on whether he was nice to them. If that's seriously the issue, then why is the media not being blamed for not doing their jobs?

    Seriously, FirstTimer is one of the biggest dipshits here. Too bad he's too stupid to realize it.
    The media's probably not being blamed because it would be the media's job to do that. A lot of the media have been vocal in saying, for example, they won't vote for suspected steroid users, and there was a clear penalty on Roberto Alomar for that spitting incident. So FirstTimer had a point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex L. View Post
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    Please don't quote FirstTimer. He/she is such a mouthbreather. Only someone like him would blame the player for how he treated the media when it's the media's job to weigh who should be in on the merit of what they did and not based on whether he was nice to them.
    You seriously have no idea how HOF voting works in baseball.

    These are the same idiots that during the Negro League votes didn't put Buck ONeil in.




    Quote Originally Posted by Lex L. View Post
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    If that's seriously the issue, then why is the media not being blamed for not doing their jobs?
    Umm they constantly are. At least by people with brains.

    Not putting Larkin in first ballot was a farce as well.


    Nice to Lex L back and tarding up the board.

    I'm the mouthbreather but Lex L thinks today's NFL players and concussions are for pussys.

    STFU moron.

  17. #39
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    Another farce. Dawson going into the HOF after Jim Rice?

    Lulz.

  18. #40
    Senior Member Lex L.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    The media's probably not being blamed because it would be the media's job to do that. A lot of the media have been vocal in saying, for example, they won't vote for suspected steroid users, and there was a clear penalty on Roberto Alomar for that spitting incident. So FirstTimer had a point.
    Not really. The media has a job to do independent of how the player treated them, even if it was badly. Its beyond stupid to blame Santo while overlooking that the media didnt do its job.

    I already know the media holds grudges. To say as much is pointing out the obvious. Where you go in the wrong, however, is when you blame the player while giving the media a pass.
    Hidden Content Originally Posted by FirstTimer Hidden Content
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    THE WOLF

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    And the wolf that shall keep it may prosper, but the wolf that shall break it must die.

    As the creeper that girdles the tree-trunk, the Law runneth forward and back---

    For the strength of the pack is the wolf, and the strength of the wolf is the pack.''

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    It's pretty clear FT and I don't like each other. But I think he made a point and at times I can separate the two
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    Quote Originally Posted by FirstTimer View Post
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    Another farce. Dawson going into the HOF after Jim Rice?

    Lulz.
    Arguably neither one should've gotten in, but Dawson should've gotten in first They were more "borderline" candidates to me.

  21. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rice Cube View Post
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    Your own link shows he falls short in three of four hall of fame monitor stats.
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  22. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lex L. View Post
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    Not really. The media has a job to do independent of how the player treated them, even if it was badly. Its beyond stupid to blame Santo while overlooking that the media didnt do its job.

    I already know the media holds grudges. To say as much is pointing out the obvious. Where you go in the wrong, however, is when you blame the player while giving the media a pass.
    I think it was a bit of both. The media probably did hold a grudge against Santo because he was a toolbag and arguably his numbers might be borderline if you use the brett05 school of thought so the media used both to their advantage in denying Santo the HOF.

    I guess we'll find out next week what the committee says.

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