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If the Cubs could coax the Padres into accepting that, it'd be Christmas for me again.
But, why should the Padres trade their top 50 prospect for our pitching trash?
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But, why should the Padres trade their top 50 prospect for our pitching trash?
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Cashner is trash?
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How much do you trust that source?
I wouldn't trade prospects for prospects. The point is restocking the farm and building depth, not treading water.
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Relative to Rizzo.
The point being, the Padres shouldn't accept an offer of our relative garbage for Rizzo.
Garza would be the only asset I see the Cubs trading for Rizzo, but the Padres have no use for him.
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The guy's credibility seems awfully low, and he seems to be the only one pushing the Tigers offering Turner for Garza. That wouldn't be a bad centerpiece to a Garza deal though.
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I wouldn't say that Cashner is trash compared to Rizzo. You can argue their relative value to each other, but Cashner has a ton of physical tools. The only real question is can he stay healthy. That is a big knock, but it doesn't make him trash.
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He's relative trash at this point compared to Rizzo.
Maybe Cashner will be as good as advertised. I don't know at this point.
A deal with McNutt and Cashner as centerpieces likely wouldn't even be sneezed at by the Padres.
The Padres shouldn't have to, and likely won't, pay a high price for pitching. I would consider Rizzo a high price.
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The same could be said about Rizzo who has yet to produce at the major league level. Neither of these guys are sure fire bets. Rizzo has more value, but the idea that Cashner is worthless compared to him is ridiculous.
McNutt is a completely different story since his peak was likely to be a middle of the rotation starter and he struggled at AA and couldn't stay healthy.
The guy that tweeted the Tigers offering Turner plus for Garza just tweeted that the Yankees are making a late push for what it is worth.
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My whole point is that the Padres aren't even going to look at an offer for a Rizzo centered around an injury prone pitcher and McNutt.
They shouldn't have to settle for that.
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You nor I know what Josh Brynes is going to consider for Anthony Rizzo. There are going to be a lot of clubs involved and it is possible that the injury flag will be enough to scare away the Padres from Cashner (if the Cubs were even going to offer him). But Cashner has a ton of upside (has the stuff to be a top of the rotation starter), and is far from trash (which is the only point I have argued with you).
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I said he is trash compared to what else the Cubs have to offer for Rizzo.
Like I said, if the Padres accept a deal with Cashner and McNutt as centerpieces, I'd feel it'd be a Christmas gift from the Padres to us.
You said many times that you don't want Cashner going over 150 innings, so that hampers his short term value.
I don't see where the Padres are going to accept relatively weak pitching compared to what else is available on the Cubs.
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Huh? When I questioned you on this you said he was trash compared to Rizzo. I've argued that statement pretty strenously. While I would say it is more than fair that Rizzo has more value there is a lot of room in between that statement and that he is "trash".
And I've agreed with your assessment of McNutt, so why keep bringing it up?
You really think the Padres are making a deal with a view on short term value?
According to you the only thing the Cubs have to offer is Garza. Cashner is probably the most valuable pitcher they can offer at this point after Garza, which again is the only point I've been arguing with you that he is not trash.
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That's the only pitching asset I see the Padres wanting at this point. I don't see the Padres taking on Cashner and McNutt for Rizzo and saying goodbye. I think that offers an insult to the Padres.
If they accept it, great for the Cubs, hope they have their 1B for the next decade. My whole contention is that relative trash to Rizzo, and relative trash that is Cubs pitching, the Padres shouldn't be forced to settle for the Cubs offer of McNutt and Casher.
I think Marmol would be the 2nd most valuable pitching asset the Cubs have, but I don't see what use the Padres have for a closer if they don't have leads to save.
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I have never argued that Cashner and McNutt is enough to get Rizzo, and neither did CO for that matter. His statement was that Cashner and McNutt could be the centerpiece of a deal. I think that Cashner combined with a few other interesting prospects (some of which might not be in our system right now) might be enough to get Rizzo. It depends how concerned the Padres are with the injuries of last season and whether they view him exclusively as a reliever or not. And none of us here know the answer to those questions. Again the only thing I have been quibbling with you is your characterization of Cashner as trash (relative to Rizzo or otherwise).
And given Marmol's performance last season and contract, I think other teams are far more interested in Cashner than Marmol at this point in time.
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What else would be thrown in that deal to get Rizzo?
My statement is Cashner and McNutt wouldn't be enough. And one or the other as a centerpiece wouldn't be enough.
I think Cashner and McNutt are relative trash compared to Rizzo and compared to what other assets they have. They can prove me wrong. The Cubs can prove me wrong
ray:
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As I have stated multiple times I am not sure since there aren't many prospect for prospect deals like this that we can look to as precedent. I've thought I read somewhere that the Padres wanted middle infield prospects which the Cubs do have some interesting ones (no one great that would make a centerpiece for a deal, but guys with some upside that might be intriguing). And really this isn't what I am arguing with you about.
One we both agree on, and the other is a matter of what the Padres think of Cashner. I agree that there are more questions about Cashner and therefore he has less value. The only question is how much is the difference in value.
I think Cashner and McNutt are relative trash compared to Rizzo and compared to what other assets they have. They can prove me wrong. The Cubs can prove me wrong
What other assets do the Cubs have? Garza is the one we all agree has the most value. You put forward the idea of Marmol as having the second most value amongst pitchers which is a bit of a stretch given his performance and contract. What else do the Cubs have that makes Cashner trash? I've tackled the issue of Cashner being trash compared to Rizzo. If you think that Cashner is worthless compared to Rizzo at this point I guess there is nothing that can be said to change your mind. I am just hopeful that the current front office has a more enlightened view of him.
ZDemp34
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What do you mean "relative trash"? You're either trash or you're not.
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Compared to Rizzo, compared to what the Cubs have to offer, and certainly, goes without saying, what other teams have to offer.
What the Cubs or other teams will pay for Rizzo, I don't know, but I don't see the Padres in a desperate need of pitching in return for one of their most valuable assets.
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I think he used a poor choice of words to say that Andrew Cashner is not as valuable as Anthony Rizzo, which might be true but (sample size disclaimer) at present one has shown that he can be a capable reliever at MLB level and the other didn't do so hot in his call-up. So there's that.
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It might go without saying that the Cubs probably aren't that desperate to dump Garza either.
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