Reply With QuoteCarmelo Anthony 2.0.
Steve Aschburner: Don't be so quick to trade for Howard
Guess he's basketball retarded also.Joakim Noah will win an NBA championship before Dwight Howard.
There it is, pure idle speculation, befitting the final 168 hours before the league's trading deadline. It's offered here not so much as a Vegas-worthy prediction or a curse to the Orlando Magic's strongman alumnus-to-be, but as a reminder to the Chicago Bulls and their more impatient fans to be careful what they wish for. Even if Chicago were on Howard's short and exclusive list of acceptable markets -- and it isn't -- it's important to remember that upgrades aren't always what they seem.
There are plenty of folks around the NBA, especially in the media, who are talent groupies, pure and simple. They worship at the knee of the vertical leap and the advanced metric. It's all a matter of tangibles, tip-slamming and shot-blocking, to be plugged into any of 30 lineups with wondrous results.
Others tilt toward intangibles; chemistry, familiarity, trust, sacrifice, shared goals, energy and passion. That's where addition can become subtraction, black ink can turn red and bringing in someone like Howard -- who has all but abandoned intangibles this season in Orlando -- could flummox even a group as solid as the Bulls.
Any hypothetical trade wouldn't require just a swap of centers, Howard for Noah. Chicago would have to build out its package to include, at least, All-Star forward Luol Deng. Maybe big men Taj Gibson or Omer Asik get tossed into the mix. Maybe a Draft pick or two, or cash, or somebody deeper into the rotation to balance out, say, Hedo Turkoglu's contract.
Even if we limit the discussion to Noah and Deng, the Bulls' two most coveted players after reigning MVP Derrick Rose, opinions about making such a deal seem to range from cautiously willing to determinedly reluctant.
Talks with three Eastern Conference insiders this week ran the gamut. One GM thought long and hard, then said, "Yeah, I guess finally you'd have to do it. He [Howard] just has such an impact on the game, offensively and defensively."
A personnel man, on the other hand, was dead-set against it: "No way. Look what you'd be giving up. They've tried to win around him in Orlando and that wasn't good enough. I'm not sure if Dwight gets it."
And an assistant coach, asked for his overall impression of Howard this season, said simply: "Silly."
Many question his seriousness of purpose, the order of his priorities and his reasons for seeking greener grass outside of central Florida. Some folks have taken a longer, harder look at his game, his improvement to this point (he's 26), the ancillary things that seem to matter most to him and the ways in which a title contender would need to be built around him ... and reached a reasonable conclusion that he simply would not be worth it.
Granted, there's no predicting how he might be around a player like Rose, who would instantly become the highest-level and most driven teammate Howard ever has had. The guy who seldom seems to have a serious bone in his body -- unless it's navel-gazing time again about his own future branding potential -- might be transformed by a young man who appears to have nothing but serious bones. Surely the talent combo of a lethal, lightning-quick perimeter player with Dwight's dominance inside would suggest a pairing for the ages and, maybe, render intangibles immaterial.
Even an avowed chemistry guy like Brian Scalabrine, coach Tom Thibodeau's trustee/reserve in Chicago, admitted: "As much as I think we have the best -- of all the teams I've been on, we have really good chemistry -- I don't think it's as important as people make it out to be. There are some teams that have terrible chemistry and they still win championships. Look at the Lakers with Kobe and Shaq -- they dominated. It's one of those things that, you need to come together for sure in the playoffs and be on the same page and be able to speak to each other. You can have bad chemistry if you have high character guys. Talent in the playoffs, man, talent is big."
Scalabrine is an unabashed Noah fan. He knows what the Bulls would lose in swapping the tangle-haired, sideways-shooting, high-energy center for that brawnier, more decorated replacement from Orlando. He -- and Thibodeau -- see Noah to the Bulls as what Kevin Garnett has been to the Celtics and for a dozen years before that to the Timberwolves.
"They hate each other," Scalabrine smirked, thinking of Noah and Garnett. "But if they were on the same team, they'd love playing with each other. Every night, people would be like, 'Man, I've got to go up against these guys?' The energy would be off the charts! One guy would raise it, the other guy would raise it higher. Wow! They would compete against each other more than against the other teams -- in a good way."
Noah's value includes a few tangibles too. "Obviously, he's great with offensive rebounds, he's really active to the basketball," Scalabrine said. "And over time, you see how he plays harder [than others] every minute out there, and it's not hard for him to raise his level against big-time opponents. For a big, that's huge.
"He's a much better basketball player than what people think. Making decisions. Dribbling. Handoffs. Passing. He's really good at those things, maybe the best center in the NBA. You don't understand. He's a 7-footer who can defend Dwight Howard. But he can take the ball in the open court and find a guy and know to pass it in the corner. You guys watch from the stands and that stuff looks easy -- it's not. It's hard. Usually the guys making those plays are elite guards."
Said Noah, smiling: "I'm from New York City. All New York City players can dribble the ball and take it to the basket. None of us can shoot."
Noah's performances are back to where he was last winter before surgery on his right hand gouged 30 games out of his season. Nine of his double-doubles have come in the last 15 games, and he is averaging 11.1 points and 13.6 rebounds over his last eight games. Sure, Howard's numbers are bigger -- but after you factor in Deng's, are they really?
Last season, 15 of Noah's 21 double-doubles came in the 24 games before the surgery. He played 24 more before the postseason but his minutes were cut because his conditioning was off. He and Carlos Boozer still had to learn to co-exist, and the center hit a wall offensively in the second-round series against Atlanta. After that, he averaged just 5.4 points and Chicago went 4-5 in its final nine playoff games.
This offseason meant a long layoff again and a summer that went from intensive, one-on-one gym sessions with Thibodeau to no contact with the coach whatsoever. Then the rushed training camp and the breakneck schedule. Thibodeau believes big men have taken longer to adapt than small to the season's pace, but Noah is finally back to where he was.
"I thought I worked as hard this offseason as I've ever worked," Noah said in a nearly empty Bradley Center locker room late Wednesday. "But it shows you, you can do all the things but there's only one way to get in real basketball shape, especially the way I play, and that's just playing.
"This isn't easy, y'know. ... There's a reason why it's so rewarding to win an NBA game or to win a series. To get that sweet taste of victory. Because it's really hard. Really hard. I feel, like, so blessed to be a part of this team, one of the few teams that, I can say, we're competing for the real thing. You don't know what's going to happen, but just to be a team where we can say, yeah, we're fighting for our goal -- and that's to win the whole thing -- not every team in the NBA can say that.
"I'm feeling more confident. I feel like I have a little more pep in my step. I'm not the most skilled guy out there, actually. But I'm competitive. I just want to win."
It says here Noah will. Before Dwight Howard.
Break up the Bulls? Chicago brass had better think twice | NBA.com
Carmelo Anthony 2.0.
Yeah, comparing Noah to Garnett....basketball retarded.Originally Posted by Glide2keva
I think the comparison was more to role than skill set, but
NBA Redraft Roster
PG-Derrick Rose
SG-Manu Ginobili
SF-Gerald Wallace
PF-Pau Gasol
C-Dwight Howard
Bench
PG-Kyle Lowry
SG-Wesley Matthews
SF-Lamar Odom
PF-Amare Stoudamire
C-Marcin Gortat
Hidden Content
$15MIL for a guy to fill the role...but he doesn't have the skill set? No thanks...I think the comparison was more to role than skill set, but
If he improves well enough to contribute consistently...fine, I hope he does. But I don't see that happening.
Isn't Noah getting 11M per? Maybe I'm wrong on that.
I think the comparison was as a defensive anchor and energy guy. Noah is the defensive anchor of this team, much like Garnett is to the Celtics. Offensively, yeah not even close, and even defensively Garnett is still much better. That's why Garnett was a franchise guy and Noah is not even close to that.
NBA Redraft Roster
PG-Derrick Rose
SG-Manu Ginobili
SF-Gerald Wallace
PF-Pau Gasol
C-Dwight Howard
Bench
PG-Kyle Lowry
SG-Wesley Matthews
SF-Lamar Odom
PF-Amare Stoudamire
C-Marcin Gortat
Hidden Content
So anyone that doesn't agree with your point of view is basketball retarded?
That's exactly what it is. Hou definitely missed the point on that one.
No...I think certain statements a person may make is basketball retarded. In certain instances when someone knows nothing about basketball, I call THEM basketball retarded.
I stand corrected...but the point stands.
That Noah isn't close to Garnett in terms of skill? Agree 100%.
NBA Redraft Roster
PG-Derrick Rose
SG-Manu Ginobili
SF-Gerald Wallace
PF-Pau Gasol
C-Dwight Howard
Bench
PG-Kyle Lowry
SG-Wesley Matthews
SF-Lamar Odom
PF-Amare Stoudamire
C-Marcin Gortat
Hidden Content
Hopefully after tonight, people can see up close (which seems the only way some fans can notice anything not Chicago Bulls) what Howard can do, and please stop acting as if is anywhere near comparable to Dwight Howard.
Dwight is the best in the game, Noah isn't top 5.
Well rested Magic team playing a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back and played four games in five nights and still almost lost to them. Yeah Howard really showed us why we need him.
Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Bulls players? It seems like you love to prop up the superstars and diminish the guys on the team you supposedly love. Is it that you want a superstar at every position, and if they aren't they suck?
Noah is a Top 5 center. It's not like it's a deep position. Howard is dominating it by default. He'd be a PF in the era of Ewing, Olajuwan, Mourning, Shaq (Prime), Smits, Mutumbo, etc.
Do you just hate role players or do you just love superstars. I mean we already know you don't support the team when they aren't winning, so is it that you're just a front-runner or what?
I'm just trying to understand you.
With the trade deadline approaching, it ultimately comes down to this -- does PaxGar want to run the risk of disrupting team chemistry and try to make a blockbuster deal? Anyone who thinks any team in the NBA wouldn't improve with Dwight Howard on their roster is ignorant. However, it's going to take a load of talent to get him and disrupting one of our best assets (team chemistry) could prove to be too great of a risk during a season. We're a lock to get a top-4 spot in the East, but when it comes down to it, our seed doesn't constitute a greater chance to beat Miami. They're the only team in the East that poses a threat to us. Howard would certainly give us a hand up, but so could a few smaller deals that wouldn't be as detrimental to player camaraderie.
Honestly, I would like it a lot more from a fan's perspective if we wanted to make a move in the offseason. It gives players a chance to run practices and figure everything out at a slower pace. It's no surprise that we'd have to give up at least two of our four best player (Noah and Boozer make the most sense) plus other assets (probably Gibson, Butler and a pick) to land Howard, so having more time to digest the situation would be a lot more ideal. Besides, Howard's constant whining is almost making LeBron and Carmelo look like saints. I don't necessarily know if I want that on our team. I certainly know Derrick Rose wouldn't put up with that shit.
That first paragraph is textbook basketball retardation. Good God. Do you really think saying shit like that makes you such a devout fan? Do you think Howard dominated Noah...because Noah was sooooooooooo tired after his painstakingly long trip from China...I mean Milwaukee? Give me a damn break! Howard has dominated Noah plenty of times in the past where that lame shit shouldn't be used as an excuse. But here is a log of the two going against each other.Well rested Magic team playing a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back and played four games in five nights and still almost lost to them. Yeah Howard really showed us why we need him.
Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Bulls players? It seems like you love to prop up the superstars and diminish the guys on the team you supposedly love. Is it that you want a superstar at every position, and if they aren't they suck?
Noah is a Top 5 center. It's not like it's a deep position. Howard is dominating it by default. He'd be a PF in the era of Ewing, Olajuwan, Mourning, Shaq (Prime), Smits, Mutumbo, etc.
Do you just hate role players or do you just love superstars. I mean we already know you don't support the team when they aren't winning, so is it that you're just a front-runner or what?
I'm just trying to understand you.
Dwight Howard vs. Joakim Noah | Basketball-Reference.com
And a word of advice, don't try to understand me, try to understand the league, If you study and learn the league, you won't make horrible statements like you did in your first paragraph explaining why Orlando was so well rested....after one day off.
But thanks for trying to understand
Are we now comparing Howard to Noah?
Man I love this guy too but there is nothing to compare between these two.It's like the Drose to any PG comparison...Noah is a better passer,Noah has a better haircut,Noah is a better blah blah BLAH..No matter how many things like this you ll find there is a huge difference between them overall.Basically there is a huge difference between Howard and every other C in the game.
No its not.
Bynum is the only other C halfway comparable to Dwight Howard and even Bynum is nowhere near the defensive player and rebounding Howard is. And has nowhere near his stamina. Are we going to get Howard? No. So whatever.
So you just like being an asshole to people. Okay, got it.
That's what I'm saying. So why are we wasting so much time talking about him?
You must be one of those people who think that D-Rose might be > Magic, aren't you? Rose isn't even as good as Gary Payton.
Also, way to not answer any of my other questions and cherry pick something to attack. I would really love to hear you answer to these questions.Well rested Magic team playing a Bulls team on the back end of a back to back and played four games in five nights and still almost lost to them. Yeah Howard really showed us why we need him.
Do you ever have anything positive to say about the Bulls players? It seems like you love to prop up the superstars and diminish the guys on the team you supposedly love. Is it that you want a superstar at every position, and if they aren't they suck?
Noah is a Top 5 center. It's not like it's a deep position. Howard is dominating it by default. He'd be a PF in the era of Ewing, Olajuwan, Mourning, Shaq (Prime), Smits, Mutumbo, etc.
Do you just hate role players or do you just love superstars. I mean we already know you don't support the team when they aren't winning, so is it that you're just a front-runner or what?
I'm just trying to understand you.
Noah a top 5 C?
Not even counting Al Horford, Al Jefferson, and Nene:
Howard, Bynum, Marc Gasol, Duncan (who pretty much plays nothing but C at this point), and Bogut are easily better. Hibbert, Brook Lopez, and maybe even Tyson Chandler might have something to say about that, too. Chris Kaman and Spencer Hawes have some upside over Noah as well.
Last edited by RamiTheBullsFan; 03-09-2012 at 03:15 PM.
Gortat is a top 10 Center on the rise as well.
True. I omitted Gortat. He'd have something to say as well although I'd rather have Noah.
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