OT: JosMin's borderline Hall of Famers thread

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

When I was in college, I had a sports radio show with two of my good friends. We had a segment in which we debated what athletes we felt were borderline Hall of Famers and whether they should some day be inducted or not. I thought it would be fun to see what you guys think about some current MLB players.

Like I said, these are guys who aren't absolute locks (think Derek Jeter, Roy Halladay, Albert Pujols, etc, those guys are obvious first ballot HoFers). What I'll do is throw out three players, their stats and HoF credentials and see what you guys think about them. Don't worry about deciding if they're a first ballot vote or that kind of thing -- a simple yes or no will do. Oh yeah, you gotta' be convincing! Figured this would be a lot of fun.

Alright, here we go....

Scott Rolen, 3B, 37

15 years experience (PHI, STL, TOR, CIN)

Statistics/highlights -- .282 career batting average, 2005 hits, 308 home runs, 1248 RBIs, 500 doubles. 1997 National League Rookie of the Year, 8-time Gold Glove winner, 7 All-Star apperances, 1 World Series title (2006, STL)

Vladimir Guerrero, RF, 37

16 years experience (MON, ANA, TEX, BAL)

Statistics/highlights -- .318/.379/.553 BA/OBP/SLG, 2590 hits, 449 home runs, 1496 RBIs, 477 doubles, 181 steals. 2004 American League MVP, 9 All-Star appearances, 2 30/30 seasons, 1 World Series Appearance (2010, TEX)

Mark Buehrle, SP, 33

12 years experience (CHW, first year with FLA)

Statistics/highlights -- 161 wins, 3.83 ERA, 4 All-Star appearances, 3-time Gold Glove winner, 2 No-hitters (1 Perfect Game), 1 World Series title (2005, CHI)

Johnny Damon, LF, 38

17 years experience (KC, OAK, BOS, NY, DET, TB)

Statistics/highlights -- .286 career batting average, 2723 hits, 404 steals, 516 doubles, 107 triples, 1120 RBIs, 1643 R. 2 All-Star appearances, 2 World Series titles (2004, BOS, 2009, NYY)

Todd Helton, 1B, 38

15 years experience (COL)

Statistics/highlights -- .323/.421/.550 BA/OBP/SLG, 2363 hits, 1329 R, 1308 RBIs, 347 HR. 5 All-Star appearances, 3-time Gold Glove winner, 1 World Series appearance (2007, COL)

The Bandit · Apr 5, 2012

Guerrero should be... Rolen is iffy. What about Miguel Cabrera? Little young still but look at the stats and see how many years he should have left

Rice Cube · Apr 5, 2012

I think I agree with Rolen and Vlad but Buehrle probably just belongs in the Hall of Very Good. He's really good. I don't think he's a HOFer, he's like Andy Pettitte with less titles.

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

Vlad has been my favorite player since I could remember. His peak from 1998 to 2008 was absolutely phenomenal. It's a shame those Expos teams he was on were never that good. He was a lock to hit .320 with 30 homers and drive in 100 runs. Heck, he also had a really good arm for a majority of his career. Plus, you never once heard him get brought up in steroid conversations. The guy just went out there and played ball -- I love his old school style.

To me, Rolen is one of the 10 best third basemen of all-time. Certainly not in the same conversation as Chipper, Brett or Schmidt, but when you compare him to our very own Ron Santo, I think Rolen was just as good. He was always a fantastic defensive player and has always been a well above-average hitter. I doubt he'll be a first ballot guy like Chipper, but he'll get voted in.

As for Buehrle, I think he's a guy that could definitely get consideration if he pitches well until his late 30s. If he was able to keep pitching 200 innings and be a major part of a World Series winner like in '05, he could end up around 250 wins to put with those two no-hitters. As of right now, I would say he's not going to get in, but you never know. In seven or eight years, he could have numbers that're eerily similar to Andy Pettitte.

bbaker · Apr 5, 2012

I loved watching Rolen play when I was littler. I'd put him in (some bias here).
Vlad, yes. Like you said, he was never brought up in the whole Steroid conversation, which is a big plus imo.
Buehrle can make it if he has 2 more solid seasons I think.

Shit, that was pretty tough to decide. :lol:

brett05 · Apr 5, 2012

Vlad is in. At this point only him

inactiveuser1 · Apr 5, 2012

I bet Buehrle gets in because of his perfect game and consistency

Captain Iago · Apr 5, 2012

Rice Cube said:
I think I agree with Rolen and Vlad but Buehrle probably just belongs in the Hall of Very Good. He's really good. I don't think he's a HOFer, he's like Andy Pettitte with less titles.

This is what the Hall of Fame has already become. Disappointing.

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

Captain Iago said:
This is what the Hall of Fame has already become. Disappointing.

Nah, that's the basketball Hall of Fame. Also, I'm gonna throw two more guys up there, too.

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

Updated list. Added Johnny Damon and Todd Helton.

CODE_BLUE56 · Apr 5, 2012

todd helton is really under appreciated

Rice Cube · Apr 5, 2012

I think Damon's got Hall of Very Good credentials as well but the fact that he's hanging on for dear life and he hasn't ever had a ZOMFG season hurts him. Got championships though.

Helton is a very interesting case. I think he probably falls short as he's a first baseman and there are tons of those in the HOF, plus a few in this era who are simply better. Also the Coors Field thing.

dabynsky · Apr 5, 2012

I think if Rolen has another season or two in him he has the strongest case because of the numbers he put up at 3B combined with his all world defense at the position.

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

Rice Cube said:
I think Damon's got Hall of Very Good credentials as well but the fact that he's hanging on for dear life and he hasn't ever had a ZOMFG season hurts him. Got championships though.

Helton is a very interesting case. I think he probably falls short as he's a first baseman and there are tons of those in the HOF, plus a few in this era who are simply better. Also the Coors Field thing.

And the fact that he used to hit 40 homers then suddenly lost 30 pounds and started hitting 20 :troll:

. I remember one radio personality in Denver called him out on it and he got all butt hurt about it. I mean, his average has never really suffered, but your home run total getting cut in half is a little "Fischy."

dabynsky · Apr 5, 2012

JosMin said:
And the fact that he used to hit 40 homers then suddenly lost 30 pounds and started hitting 20 . I remember one radio personality in Denver called him out on it and he got all butt hurt about it. I mean, his average has never really suffered, but your home run total getting cut in half is a little "Fischy."

While I wouldn't be shocked by anyone juicing during the past era his drop in homeruns coincides with the installation of the humidor at Coors. He hit 49 in 2001 and it dropped to 30 in 2002, the year the humidor was added.

Rice Cube · Apr 5, 2012

Should include this guy...

bossdrb · Apr 5, 2012

i always liked Guerrero simply cuz he played old school. no batting gloves, power-pull hitter, max effort...

JosMin · Apr 5, 2012

Rice Cube said:
Should include this guy...

I'd love to include Sosa, but I'm fairly certain his PED accusations are going to keep him out, much like Palmerio.

MRubio52 · Apr 5, 2012

Personally the only guy I would consider is Vlad.
For Rolen he might have similar numbers to Santo, but they did it in two completely different eras. Rolen was a great defensive 3B, but I don't put him in.

Mark Buehrle was consistent, but there was never a time where I considered him an elite pitcher. He was great and did everything a Sox fan could ask a player to do, but he shouldn't be a Hall of Famer.

Damon has the weirdest composite stat line from a player I've ever seen I think. He has an outside chance at 3,000 hits, but his OPS+ is only 105. He never posted an OPS+ over 120. Some of his career is spent in CF which might help his case a bit, but I don't think there's enough there.

I just think Helton was a juicer and the Coors factor should keep him out. Good player, but not a legend.

Vlad will end up hitting .315+ with 450+ HR's. His OPS+ is 140 and you could make the argument that he was one of the best OF's of his generation. Solid defense and a great bat should put him in.

brett05 · Apr 6, 2012

Never heard evidence On Helton. What about Jamie Moyer? He won't get in but id put him in there.

OT: JosMin's borderline Hall of Famers thread

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