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**Uman85** · 07-27-2012, 12:41 PM

Originally Posted by 2SeamHeat

I'd go with the Marlins and Rays. Even with excellent teams, they simply don't draw crowds or merit support. In 2003, when the Marlins won it all, they averaged 16,290 per game... and the only reason they had so much as half-capacity crowds during the NLCS or WS was because they were taking on the Cubs and Yankees. There are a lot of Chicago and New York retirees in South Florida. The only team that year that had a lower attendance... Tampa. The Rays went to the WS in 2008 and only managed to fill an average of 22,259. Their playoff games were blacked out due to not selling enough tickets...including the WS. Only twice in their franchise history have they ever managed to finishes in the top 25 in attendance was 2009-2010. They returned to their usual 29th place last year.

This year, the Marlins sit 18th in the attendance rankings... their first time ever not in the bottom 4. Problem is, they had big attendance early on due to the new stadium and the spending this past winter for big names. It's pretty clear now that trading away fan favorites like Ramirez and Sanchez, and probably as much of the acquisitions from the spending spree, that the attendance is going to tank. The Rays, despite being in the thick of the AL WC race, has the second lowest attendance in the majors.

I actually think the Marlins, Rays, A's, Pirates, Royals, and Indians should probably all be disbanded and bring the league down to 24 teams, 12 in each league. None of these teams can build a strong enough fanbase to support them. They are also located in cities well-known for fickle fan support in all major sports. You can go back to the old 4-division system, and make the WC's based on whoever takes 2nd place in each division. However, you'd find the same reason the Cubs and Cardinals crapped all over the idea of realignment back in the 90s... as they would probably both head to the West or be separated.

How about going one step further and eliminating the Mariners, one Chicago team, the Mets and Toronto. Then we're down to 20 teams. Haha

**2SeamHeat** · 07-27-2012, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Uman85

How about going one step further and eliminating the Mariners, one Chicago team, the Mets and Toronto. Then we're down to 20 teams. Haha

All of those teams manage to support themselves.... The teams I mention do not. It's all moot though, because the legal issues alone prevent contraction. If anything, the owners may actually look at expansion in a few years just to get extra $$$.

**Rice Cube** · 07-27-2012, 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by 2SeamHeat

All of those teams manage to support themselves.... The teams I mention do not. It's all moot though, because the legal issues alone prevent contraction. If anything, the owners may actually look at expansion in a few years just to get extra $$$.

Or they could always move the Rays to Vegas or something. Get them out of the AL East and also to a place that for whatever reason craves a pro sports franchise.

**DewsSox79** · 07-27-2012, 02:19 PM

the marlins will not get moved. please see new baseball stadium.

**2SeamHeat** · 07-27-2012, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by Rice Cube

Or they could always move the Rays to Vegas or something. Get them out of the AL East and also to a place that for whatever reason craves a pro sports franchise.

Yeah, I think a move from TB and Oakland are almost inevitable at this point. Whether or not they go to Vegas is an odd topic of its own. I really don't get the whole "too close to the gamblers" BS.... as if you don't have bookies in each and every one of the markets where the teams play today.

The Marlins won't move because of their new stadium. That would be one hell of a cost to the MLB, since I do think there are legal clauses in the contract with the city that forces the Marlins to pay back every dime of the tax support if they move in the next twenty years or something. KC won't move because of the Negro League history association. Cleveland won't move or be disbanded because of their history... and Art Modell got out of the sports business.

Markets I see growing that don't currently have a MLB team are Austin, San Jose, Salt Lake, Raliegh-Durham area, San Antonio, and Nashville. It would be interesting to see another team in Texas, but I seriously doubt it'll happen, especially since Austin and San Antonio aren't that far from either Dallas or Houston. Then again, the NBA does have a team in all three of Dallas, Houston, and San Antonio... and they are all quite successful. The A's are trying to move to San Jose currently, and that makes a tone of sense to me. Salt Lake would be an interesting venue. They have an NBA and MLS team now, and a AAA-level hockey team. Raliegh-Durham host the famous Durham Bulls. It's also part of the NCAA's mythological Tobacco Road with Duke and NC State being there, and UNC and Wake Forrest laying in the suburbs. You could potentially go from March Madness to Opening Day Fever. Nashville has an NFL and NHL team, with nearby Memphis having the state's NBA team.

All of these areas support their local minor league teams quite well, as well as the major league sports teams they currently have. Unlike many of the current MLB markets, they are growing in both population and economically.

**85Bears4life** · 07-27-2012, 07:22 PM

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Deal is done: Greinke to #Angels, sources tell me and @jonmorosi.

**85Bears4life** · 07-27-2012, 07:23 PM

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

#Brewers getting shortstop Jean Segura and two Double A pitchers from #Angels for Greinke. "Finishing touches" being applied. Deal is done.

**Rice Cube** · 07-27-2012, 07:23 PM

Originally Posted by 85Bears4life

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Deal is done: Greinke to #Angels, sources tell me and @jonmorosi.

Holy crap. Angels are going to make the Rangers sweat.

**dabynsky** · 07-27-2012, 07:24 PM

Originally Posted by Rice Cube

Holy crap. Angels are going to make the Rangers sweat.

Olt and Perez to the Marlins for Josh Johnson

**Rice Cube** · 07-27-2012, 07:30 PM

Originally Posted by dabynsky

Olt and Perez to the Marlins for Josh Johnson

Wouldn't be surprised.

**85Bears4life** · 07-27-2012, 07:39 PM

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Confirmed: Ariel Pena and Johnny Hellweg are two #Angels Double A pitchers heading to #Brewers along with Segura for Greinke.

**dabynsky** · 07-27-2012, 07:45 PM

Huge haul for Greinke and takes Greinke off the market to a team that wasn't linked to any Cubs arm.

**zack54attack** · 07-27-2012, 07:46 PM

Grienke out of the NL Central for the Cubs 2015 WS run...

**Mr. Cub** · 07-27-2012, 07:48 PM

The Angels are gonna be solid man. They should be pretty strong contenders come playoff time.

**Rice Cube** · 07-27-2012, 07:55 PM

Originally Posted by zack54attack

Grienke out of the NL Central for the Cubs 2015 WS run...

Although if he's a free agent, he can now be signed without forfeiting a draft pick.

Not that the Cubs will, but you never know.

**Rice Cube** · 07-27-2012, 08:08 PM

Zambrano is pitching tonight so I think Josh Johnson is slated to go tomorrow. If a trade can be done tonight to save his start for the new team, that might drive up the demand for Dempster again. Hard to say.

**2SeamHeat** · 07-27-2012, 10:23 PM

Originally Posted by 85Bears4life

Ken Rosenthal ‏@Ken_Rosenthal

Confirmed: Ariel Pena and Johnny Hellweg are two #Angels Double A pitchers heading to #Brewers along with Segura for Greinke.

Watched all three of those guys play here in Midland this year. Wasn't impressed by either of the pitchers, but they had bad games out here too... not reflecting their stats. Segura, on the other hand... very solid fielder and was VERY impressive.

**2SeamHeat** · 07-27-2012, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Rice Cube

Although if he's a free agent, he can now be signed without forfeiting a draft pick.

Not that the Cubs will, but you never know.

If the Angels don't extend him, I have a strong feeling that the Cubs will pursue Greinke big time this winter.

**ZDemp34** · 07-28-2012, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by 2SeamHeat

If the Angels don't extend him, I have a strong feeling that the Cubs will pursue Greinke big time this winter.

I think they'll fake it like they did with Pujols and Fielder.

**whitesoxman77** · 07-28-2012, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by ZDemp34

I think they'll fake it like they did with Pujols and Fielder.

Theo has said he won't be big on free agents until his team is near contention, which doesn't look like they'll be in it for another couple years

**dabynsky** · 07-29-2012, 09:50 AM

Padres extended Houston Street with a 2 year 14 million dollar deal. So much for the Pads being big sellers.

**Rice Cube** · 07-29-2012, 12:23 PM

So this Cespedes guy is pretty good.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nues-to-shine/

**dabynsky** · 07-29-2012, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Rice Cube

So this Cespedes guy is pretty good.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/20...nues-to-shine/

This year and the next five would have looked a lot different if the two biggest international free agents had been signed by the Cubs. What might have been...

**dabynsky** · 07-29-2012, 01:26 PM

Astros have traded 3B Chris Johnson to the D'Backs. We really are going to have to work hard to get caught up with the Stros.

**2SeamHeat** · 07-29-2012, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by dabynsky

This year and the next five would have looked a lot different if the two biggest international free agents had been signed by the Cubs. What might have been...

Yes, the Cubs would be much better if they had signed Darvish and Cespedes. The again, you can say the same thing if they managed to sign Fielder, Wilson, Cuddyer, and traded for Headley as well.