Shane Doan has interest in joining the Blackhawks

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IvyPickin87

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Think it is more of a coincidence as to when they started to slip...

I think it is more of a correlation then a coincidence. He goes down leads to Toews taking more shots and eventually going down, which i have no problem saying caused the downward spiral the team went through. Maybe the captain still gets a concussion but maybe he doesnt if the shit gooses have to answer to Danny. Its all speculation obviously but I see a lot more value in the guy then most people on this site. I know his hands are not the best but they are certainly better then a lot of "goons" in the league, same can be said about his skating ability. There is no question his antics cause stupid penalties here and there, but he does a lot more for the team then people give him credit for.
 

LonghornBob

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I've got a buddy who argues this exact same point. He says that we went on that bender when Carcillo went down and we were never the same. He constantly points out that we were the best team in hockey until Carcillo ate it.

I call BS. I'm too hungover to research or elaborate but I'll do so later. Take my word for it: Carcillo blows.
 

Capt. Serious

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Carcillo is a ticking time bomb. There was no reason whatsoever to bring him back, especially on a 2 yr deal.
 

TheChicagoFan

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carcillo wasnt the reason why they were winning. coincidence all day long.

Yeah. Plus the fact that Carcillo went down pretty early in the season. Hard to judge how much a team has when you're still in the first half of the season. I think if any injury can be tagged as the one that killed the Hawks, it was the Toews one. But not even that made them fail. They could have still won games without Toews; they just didn't win.

My thoughts on Doan: Great player. Feisty. Aggressive. Can score goals. Perfect for the Hawks. Not gonna happen. Doesn't deserve Mark Messier award.
....And that's all you really need to know about him.
 

Captain Iago

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I've got a buddy who argues this exact same point. He says that we went on that bender when Carcillo went down and we were never the same. He constantly points out that we were the best team in hockey until Carcillo ate it.

I call BS. I'm too hungover to research or elaborate but I'll do so later. Take my word for it: Carcillo blows.

Carcillo isn't as bad as you are making him out to be. He can fit in with the top six on an as needed basis. To point you out in a direction for your argument against your bud - took a good look at the schedule prior to his injury.
 

Captain Iago

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Yeah. Plus the fact that Carcillo went down pretty early in the season. Hard to judge how much a team has when you're still in the first half of the season. I think if any injury can be tagged as the one that killed the Hawks, it was the Toews one. But not even that made them fail. They could have still won games without Toews; they just didn't win.

It did not make them fail...but they just didn't win. Eh? Check it.
 

Capt. Serious

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Carcillo also happens to be one stupid thing away from a lengthy suspension.
 

DewsSox79

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Carcillo isn't as bad as you are making him out to be. He can fit in with the top six on an as needed basis. To point you out in a direction for your argument against your bud - took a good look at the schedule prior to his injury.

he isnt a top 6 not even as a fill in.


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Captain Iago

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he isnt a top 6 not even as a fill in.


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Nah. As a fill in when times necessitated it he fit in well and had a positive affect on his linemates' play. Sure, we need an upgrade in the pest/skill combination department (Shaw maybe--but Christ, he is literally smaller than Kane). Carcillo was on pace for a 30+ point season and already was a +10 when he was injured. A plus frickin ten. Considering he is generally a minus player (one +1 and one +5) in his 7 year career, that's pretty good for 28 games on a brand spanking new team. I'm not declaring him our top line power LW; I'm stating that he wasn't as bad as some are portraying and fit in well with the top six when a game dictates it.
 
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Captain Iago

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This would be a very good signing for the Blackhawks. Doan's tough style of play was noticeably absent from the Hawks last season. People also hated Bob Probert when he was on the Red Wings, but they liked him when he was on the Hawks. I would bet Doan's case would be no different.

I don't think it would take long at all for fans to take a liking to Doan if he signs here.
 

Captain Iago

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I would say it was the other way around. Meaning his linemates had a positive effect on his play.

I think that's reasonable. It shows that it goes both ways, also showing he was a decent fit when there. Include the evidence of players whining at the EoY pressers about how much many guys missed him.
 

TheChicagoFan

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It did not make them fail...but they just didn't win. Eh? Check it.

I'm saying that not even Toews being gone is what made them fail. It just happened that they all started playing shitty hockey when he got hurt and was out for a long time.
 

TheChicagoFan

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Sorry to bring baseball into the conversation, but i would say that shane Doan is like AJ Pierzynski. If he's not on your team, you hate his guts and think he's a terrible player just for the shit he does. But if he is on your team, you love him because he plays the game rough and aggressive and still helps to win games.
 

southern_cross_116

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What made them fail is their powerplay, literally died. Add that to the fact that they only had a single line as a scoring threat- they became incredibly easy for other teams to match up.

What I don't understand about guys chucking around terms like top 6 forward, top 4 defenseman (especially when talking about trading guys like Hjalmarsson or Leddy for). . . what those guys are really talking about is one of the top 2 lw, rw, or c on a team -- and who is going to trade (in the case of Hjammer - and under-performing, overpaid defenseman for one of their top 2 forwards? (in effect there is no such thing as 'top 6 forward -as forward is based upon specific position to me. Same thing for defenseman -- top 4 defenseman = top 2 LD or RD ... ok, if one guy isn't functioning well enough on your team in that position - what team is going to trade what you need - in effect for the same position on the depth chart? How do you translate that into value in what amounts to a one for one deal? I don't think you can -- not at one for one at any rate.

Doan? Well... ok he has been consistent -- but you know, with all due respect - so had Brunette. I would not go more than 2 years for Doan - plus I think he is basically doing a Parise/Sutter with teams - using them to leverage his eventual salary (or term of salary)... the old "we're interested in moving our NHL franchise to Kansas City (small print unless someone can puhleeeese come up with a halfway decent deal to keep us from moving to Kansas City...)." stunt.

And the thing is -- it works.
 

TheChicagoFan

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What made them fail is their powerplay, literally died. Add that to the fact that they only had a single line as a scoring threat- they became incredibly easy for other teams to match up.

What I don't understand about guys chucking around terms like top 6 forward, top 4 defenseman (especially when talking about trading guys like Hjalmarsson or Leddy for). . . what those guys are really talking about is one of the top 2 lw, rw, or c on a team -- and who is going to trade (in the case of Hjammer - and under-performing, overpaid defenseman for one of their top 2 forwards? (in effect there is no such thing as 'top 6 forward -as forward is based upon specific position to me. Same thing for defenseman -- top 4 defenseman = top 2 LD or RD ... ok, if one guy isn't functioning well enough on your team in that position - what team is going to trade what you need - in effect for the same position on the depth chart? How do you translate that into value in what amounts to a one for one deal? I don't think you can -- not at one for one at any rate.

Doan? Well... ok he has been consistent -- but you know, with all due respect - so had Brunette. I would not go more than 2 years for Doan - plus I think he is basically doing a Parise/Sutter with teams - using them to leverage his eventual salary (or term of salary)... the old "we're interested in moving our NHL franchise to Kansas City (small print unless someone can puhleeeese come up with a halfway decent deal to keep us from moving to Kansas City...)." stunt.

And the thing is -- it works.

I agree with this to some extent. But I think that top 6 forward is different than a bottom six forward. They're different types of players. The top 6 guys are supposed to be good offensively and are usually the guys that are fancier or whatever. That's why if you can have a big tough guy that can score in the top 6, you have a good advantage. The bottom 6, on the other hand, is more defensive minded and is usually out there against the top lines of the other team. They're usually grittier and bigger and when they can score, you have an advantage. I think there's a big difference there.

I agree with only giving Doan like 2-3 years because he's not exactly young, but I don't think a comparison to Brunette is really good. Doan has been better than Brunette his entire career. And to be honest, the Hawks should have looked at the stats of Brunette and realized that maybe he wasn't the guy he used to be. From 2009-2010 to 2010-2011, he dropped 15 points and 7 of those points were goals.

And honestly all free agents do that by trying to say that they're really looking to go somewhere. Parise and Suter played that game for three days. Doan is playing it now. We're just seeing a lot of it this summer because of the good free agents.

Looking at the players who will be UFAs next year, I think the Hawks are smart to not spend a lot on long term deals, but if they can get Doan for 2-3 year deal without too big of a cap hit, that's a huge win for the Hawks.
 

ZDemp34

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Please make this happen. PLEASE
 

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