Blackhawks Favoring Youth Over Experience

HawkWriter · Aug 2, 2012

DewsSox79 said:
im not even involved in this debate and yet you cant seem to resist bringing me into it. i thought you were here to talk hockey as you always state but yet you do the same thing. so what started this? tcf calling you hawkgod sarcastically? mind you while giving a hockey response. you need to get thicker skin.

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I'm allowed to reply to someone calling me a smartass name after I give a thought out 100% hockey opinion. Anyone would respond. Flat out. Two way road. I did nothing but talk hockey until that response, real simple to see.

tbo41fan · Aug 2, 2012

TheChicagoFan said:
Yeah, but I think the point is that signing a vet this offseason wasn't the answer. I think the Hawks are going to wait for McNeill or Denault to play 2C and Saad to be in the top 6. And then they'll fill the other holes with some vets after that.

The UFA pool wasn't good this year. Waiting for some players to be ready before signing other guys is smart because it gives you a good window of opportunity with the young guys playing well and the UFA you sign before you have to give the young guys a new contract and the cap becomes an issue.

So how long do they wait? What if mcneil or saad bust? We just say "oh well" and move on? Id rather just sign FA's that we know can contribute. But I will give you that the FA pool was weak

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DewsSox79 · Aug 2, 2012

HawkWriter said:
I'm allowed to reply to someone calling me a smartass name after I give a thought out 100% hockey opinion. Anyone would respond. Flat out. Two way road. I did nothing but talk hockey until that response, real simple to see.

but they wouldnt bring a 3rd party involved, but you do.

great he called you a smartass name. get over it and move on.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

tbo41fan said:
So how long do they wait? What if mcneil or saad bust? We just say "oh well" and move on? Id rather just sign FA's that we know can contribute. But I will give you that the FA pool was weak

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FA's can bust too. It's all a gamble really. They're putting their trust in their ability to draft. They won a cup by prospects and drafting and a little bit of FA work. They have reason to believe that it works.

DewsSox79 · Aug 2, 2012

TheChicagoFan said:
FA's can bust too. It's all a gamble really. They're putting their trust in their ability to draft. They won a cup by prospects and drafting and a little bit of FA work. They have reason to believe that it works.

especially when you have a surplus of talent as far as specs go. FAs if they are high quality guys like parise,richards etc tend to not bust unless its a contract for what they have done and not what they are supposed to do when regards to age. brunette was a bust, and at 2 million dollars thats a waste especially in the cap era. so guys like him are your FA busts usually.

HawkWriter · Aug 2, 2012

DewsSox79 said:
but they wouldnt bring a 3rd party involved, but you do.

great he called you a smartass name. get over it and move on.

Or I can reply and everyone can move on. I'm allowed to reply just as much as he is allowed to call me a smartass name. Once again, two way road...anyone can choose to move on.

DewsSox79 · Aug 2, 2012

anyway....

hockey is quite dead so I do agree with Fisch as well.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

DewsSox79 said:
especially when you have a surplus of talent as far as specs go. FAs if they are high quality guys like parise,richards etc tend to not bust unless its a contract for what they have done and not what they are supposed to do when regards to age. brunette was a bust, and at 2 million dollars thats a waste especially in the cap era. so guys like him are your FA busts usually.

And I'm fine with the Hawks signing guys like Parise or Richards. But I'm also on board with waiting for prospects to have a chance before going out and signing the big names.

And like I've said over and over, the UFAs this year weren't that great aside from the big two that signed together and the Hawks were in on. Next year's UFAs are better and I think we have to wait until after next summer to really judge.

nwfisch · Aug 2, 2012

DewsSox79 said:
anyway....

hockey is quite dead so I do agree with Fisch as well.

Yeah it feels like the 5th time I said this, but a lockout would kill the NHL.

When is the CBA up?

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

nwfisch said:
Yeah it feels like the 5th time I said this, but a lockout would kill the NHL.

When is the CBA up?

This year I think. I don't really know though.

I know that if a new one isn't negotiated this year there will either be a lockout or strike this season though.

HawkWriter · Aug 2, 2012

nwfisch said:
Yeah it feels like the 5th time I said this, but a lockout would kill the NHL.

When is the CBA up?

September 15th

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

Actually post about hockey and get ignored. Sigh.

This is the problem people.

tbo41fan · Aug 2, 2012

TheChicagoFan said:
FA's can bust too. It's all a gamble really. They're putting their trust in their ability to draft. They won a cup by prospects and drafting and a little bit of FA work. They have reason to believe that it works.

Which is true but that was a different GM and 3 years ago...cant keep reverting back to old tactics IMO

but I am no GM, so whatever. lol

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

tbo41fan said:
Which is true but that was a different GM and 3 years ago...cant keep reverting back to old tactics IMO

but I am no GM, so whatever. lol

I'm not gonna say that Bowman is good. And maybe that's why he's trying to copy what Tallon did because it worked for him. I'm not in his head and I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert of some sort.

All I'm saying is that it worked before, so why not now?

DMelt36 · Aug 2, 2012

HawkWriter said:
I don't know where you see any of those openings.

Olsen is definitely not #5/6 at the current moment in time. He is at BEST #8 on the depth chart. He played solid last year but then started to get exploited for his slow foot work.

I also don't see the spots in the bottom 6 that are going to be filled by prospects...I have the 3rd/4th lines being comprised of Shaw/Bolland/Bickell and then Carcillo/Mayers/Kruger - add in Bollig and Frolik to one of those as well. I just don't see where any prospect is going to come in and play in the bottom 6 on this team.

Hell, there might not be a prospect in the top 6 if the Blackhawks role out Carcillo again...

Stalberg/Toews/Sharp
Carcillo/Kane/Hossa
Bickell/Bolland/Shaw
Frolik/Kruger/Mayers
Bollig

Where does a prospect fit in? I just don't see any spot in that line up where a prospect would fit in nicely in the bottom 6. Also, what prospect would it be?

Well, that escalated quickly.

Anyway ...

I hope to God Carcillo on the top six doesn't happen again.

I'll lock Bolland in as the 3C, and I'll do the same with Mayers on the 4th line. Kruger is going to be with the big club again this year, I'm sure, just not positive on where he'll fit.

But, by my math, that leaves 3 spots open for battle. Shaw is probably a favorite to lock up a spot, as is Carcillo. But I don't think Bickell, Frolik, or Bollig have any advantages for securing roster spots heading into next season. there in a dead heat with all of the other prospects.

You say Olsen is 8th ... and while I see how you'd arrive at that spot, I disagree. I think he's got a leg up over Brookbank because of his standing within the organization as a 1st round pick (fair or not it's the truth). I'm also still in the camp that believes Monty or Hjammer is going to be dealt, before the season starts.

tbo41fan · Aug 2, 2012

TheChicagoFan said:
I'm not gonna say that Bowman is good. And maybe that's why he's trying to copy what Tallon did because it worked for him. I'm not in his head and I'm not going to pretend that I'm an expert of some sort.

All I'm saying is that it worked before, so why not now?

Dynamic has changed imo...the youth that was coming up was kane and toews...they are special players, ofcourse you build around them. That group of youth is still here, they arent the building blocks of the pyramid anymore, they are the main portion of the team...to build around them to be succeasful IMO is to go get FAs or players through trade who we know can compete in the NHL...they dont need hit or miss youngins to "waste" their time

Hope that makes sense. Lol

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TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

DMelt36 said:
Well, that escalated quickly.

Anyway ...

I hope to God Carcillo on the top six doesn't happen again.

I'll lock Bolland in as the 3C, and I'll do the same with Mayers on the 4th line. Kruger is going to be with the big club again this year, I'm sure, just not positive on where he'll fit.

But, by my math, that leaves 3 spots open for battle. Shaw is probably a favorite to lock up a spot, as is Carcillo. But I don't think Bickell, Frolik, or Bollig have any advantages for securing roster spots heading into next season. there in a dead heat with all of the other prospects.

You say Olsen is 8th ... and while I see how you'd arrive at that spot, I disagree. I think he's got a leg up over Brookbank because of his standing within the organization as a 1st round pick (fair or not it's the truth). I'm also still in the camp that believes Monty or Hjammer is going to be dealt, before the season starts.

I agree that I don't want Carcillo in the top 6 again. I'd like to see Saad get a chance, but if it doesn't work then I would be fine with Carcillo there.

I'd take Carcillo and/or Smith on the 4th line over Bollig. I think Shaw and Frolik will be on the third line. Frolik will play on the 3rd line just because of his defense and I think with Shaw on the line it could be okay. I'd like the fourth line to be Smith/Mayers/Carcillo.

I also agree that I have no idea where Kruger fits in on this team. He'll still be up, but I don't see a fit. They might test him at 2C again, but I'm not a big fan of that.

DMelt36 · Aug 2, 2012

TheChicagoFan said:
Thanks to hawkgod for the help with seeing how prospects fit in for the roster.

I think Rogers' point was that the Hawks didn't sign vets because they believe that the prospects on the Hawks are good enough to wait for for the future when they can screw Bickell because he isn't good. And I agree with that. Signing vets wasn't helping the Blackhawks at all.

My official stance (meaning you can mark this post and tell me I'm a jackass later) on the offseason, this far, is that I'm actually not at all disappointed with the Hawks efforts in free agency. A bit bummed that they didn't land Parise, but that was probably a pipe dream to begin with.

Still surprised that the Hawks haven't made a trade, though. They've got the ammo to make a move, I'd like to see it happen. That's my biggest issue with Stan right now. I've been saying "Well, it's only July" so much that it's now August. And September won't be far away, and then the season will start (if you think lockout fuck you and fuck you again) and what appeared to be a good time to move some high-value pieces will be gone.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

tbo41fan said:
Dynamic has changed imo...the youth that was coming up was kane and toews...they are special players, ofcourse you build around them. That group of youth is still here, they arent the building blocks of the pyramid anymore, they are the main portion of the team...to build around them to be succeasful IMO is to go get FAs or players through trade who we know can compete in the NHL...they dont need hit or miss youngins to "waste" their time

Hope that makes sense. Lol

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And I'm all for signing FAs. My point has been that this year's pool for FAs wasn't very good and Bowman was smart to hold off and wait to get a better player for a better deal next year. All the prices were inflated this year because the players knew that not many guys were out there so there was more competition.

TheChicagoFan · Aug 2, 2012

DMelt36 said:
My official stance (meaning you can mark this post and tell me I'm a jackass later) on the offseason, this far, is that I'm actually not at all disappointed with the Hawks efforts in free agency. A bit bummed that they didn't land Parise, but that was probably a pipe dream to begin with.

Still surprised that the Hawks haven't made a trade, though. They've got the ammo to make a move, I'd like to see it happen. That's my biggest issue with Stan right now. I've been saying "Well, it's only July" so much that it's now August. And September won't be far away, and then the season will start (if you think lockout fuck you and fuck you again) and what appeared to be a good time to move some high-value pieces will be gone.

I agree that I thought a trade would happen. I guess it just didn't go down. I thought for sure that maybe Frolik or Hjalmarsson would be traded because of their contracts.

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