Questions 4/Knowledgeable Fans.

Sunbiz1

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How do you feel about the recent dismantling of what seemed like winning chemistry in favor of a re-build?.
And if you are in favor of recent events, how long should it take to assemble and develop this team?.

What is the logic behind trading away talent that helps a team win now for future talent that may or may not help the same team win?. I don't understand the gamble.
 

nwfisch

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How do you feel about the recent dismantling of what seemed like winning chemistry in favor of a re-build?.
And if you are in favor of recent events, how long should it take to assemble and develop this team?.

What is the logic behind trading away talent that helps a team win now for future talent that may or may not help the same team win?. I don't understand the gamble.
I thought the rebuild had to happen. Hendry was too prideful to do it in my opinion. The reason for trading guys like Dempster, Johnson, and Maholm is that these prospects will be around longer and be part of a winning team for more than decade compared to a season or two like the three players I mentioned above.

I'll wait until 2014 for the Cubs to turn around.
 

dabynsky

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How do you feel about the recent dismantling of what seemed like winning chemistry in favor of a re-build?.
And if you are in favor of recent events, how long should it take to assemble and develop this team?.

What is the logic behind trading away talent that helps a team win now for future talent that may or may not help the same team win?. I don't understand the gamble.

2291482-not_sure_if_serious.jpg
 

Sunbiz1

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I thought the rebuild had to happen. Hendry was too prideful to do it in my opinion. The reason for trading guys like Dempster, Johnson, and Maholm is that these prospects will be around longer and be part of a winning team for more than decade compared to a season or two like the three players I mentioned above.

I'll wait until 2014 for the Cubs to turn around.

I understand the Dempster etc. logic, at some point you have to go younger and hopefully pick up a replacement along the way. And if you're lucky get more overall talent in return. But to dangle a guy like Garza made no sense 2/me b/c he has enough gas left to contribute in 5 years.
 

Sunbiz1

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lol's, I explained that incident...Rory is on ignore and of course I'm serious. The questions themselves have been on my mind for weeks. If Theo screws this up, the team is done for a decade.
 

waldo7239117

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It had to be done... the Cubs had their 2 years of winning, but that closed. After those years, Hendry was not prepared.
 

Jntg4

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I understand the Dempster etc. logic, at some point you have to go younger and hopefully pick up a replacement along the way. And if you're lucky get more overall talent in return. But to dangle a guy like Garza made no sense 2/me b/c he has enough gas left to contribute in 5 years.

If you want to get a big deposit into your prospect bank, you must withdraw something of real value
 

inactiveuser1

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I'm outraged, we had a shot at the World Series with all the talent we stockpiled :homer:
 

nwfisch

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The old "public ignore" trick, eh? It usually doesn't work. I'm guessing you are eventually going to respond to one of my postings. I don't know what I've done to be put on "public ignore", but oh well.

I liked how you termed the Cubs firesale as a "gamble", as if they are risking current success for future gains. When the Lions fired Marty Mohrningweg after going 0-16, did you make a post asking "What is the logic behind firing a coach that helps a team win now for a future coach that may or may not help the same team win??"

Rod Marinelli coached the 0-16 Lions.

BJ5Z8.png
 

Sunbiz1

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My usual response:

http://worldseriesdreaming.com/2011/12/22/why-prospects/

Even shitty teams have stretches of "winning" in a 162-game season. That doesn't mean they're awesome. It just means the odds are evening out.

Thanks Rice, link answered all of my questions and then some...the final portion in particular as follows:

"Not every team can afford a $150MM payroll all the time. The Cubs can, but there’s a more efficient way to do business and baseball. If you can save money by growing the team in-house, you should do it. In the above example, would you rather pay Dustin Pedroia $113MM for his $113MM of value, or just $12MM? When you look at the money spent in the draft, most teams spend about $10-$15MM and rarely more than that to get 40 or so players to sign. If even one of them can give you a solid future, that is a great investment. In contrast, it’ll cost more than $20MM a year to get Prince Fielder. Ignoring situation and circumstance and just looking at value, would you rather spend that $20MM getting 40 guys, 2-5 of whom will provide much more value over their cost-controlled years than Fielder; or would you just say “screw it” and give that money to Prince Fielder anyway?

The goal here is to set up a system where the Cubs can do both. They can spend $20MM in the draft (probably less with the new CBA, but still not bad) to get a shot at good prospects, and then with the knowledge that they have cost-controlled production in the pipeline, go after free agents like Fielder (or equivalent in the future) to fill in the gaps. It makes sense to me. It at least gives you hope that guys like Brett Jackson will pan out and save the Cubs some money in the next few years, right?".
 

Rice Cube

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The new CBA also has tougher luxury tax restrictions which is why teams like the Yankees and Red Sox have been reluctant to take on more payroll recently. As a business owner (and a MLB franchise is a business) you want to maximize productivity while limiting costs, and the cost control built into the CBA (however unfair it is to the minor leaguers and the rookies etc) allows them to stockpile cheap talent. The trick is to have the better scouts and evaluators so you can stockpile the most cheap impact talent, and that's what we're hoping for with the new guys.
 

Uman85

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I'm skeptical of the plan to build in-house. I know the farm system is a big part of a team's success or failure, but Theo had some pretty decent talent when he took over Boston. This is a whole new journey for him. I'm hoping that he delivers and proves my doubts wrong, but I just have an uneasy feeling that things aren't going to turn out as great as many fans hope. Maybe I've seen the Cubs have bad luck and play bad baseball for too long to be an optimist. Who knows. :dunno:
 

2SeamHeat

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I understand the Dempster etc. logic, at some point you have to go younger and hopefully pick up a replacement along the way. And if you're lucky get more overall talent in return. But to dangle a guy like Garza made no sense 2/me b/c he has enough gas left to contribute in 5 years.

Garza is currently.... and may remain damaged goods. Plus, if you can get two stop prospects such as a Jacob Turner (who was linked to oh so many trade rumors for Garza) who is probably going to be just as good as Garza within the next 2-3 years AND another player that could potentially pan out to be an impact on the team's success... then do it. Particularly when the team is not winning (don't let the July record fool you, this team was still brutally terrible) and is hoping to build a prolonged successful future.
 

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