OT: The Strasburg Shutdown

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...b905272-f136-11e1-a612-3cfc842a6d89_blog.html

This is just one in a long line of news articles, opinions and blog posts dealing with Nationals GM Mike Rizzo's planned shutdown of Stephen Strasburg. I don't recall if we've had a thread dedicated to this but I was curious as to how you would have handled Strasburg's workload in light of the fact that he's coming back from Tommy John surgery and still has a long career ahead of him.

So questions...

A. Do you think Rizzo is right in shutting down Strasburg?

B. Would you bench your best pitcher for the playoffs with his and the franchise's futures in mind?

C. What would you have done instead?

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

The generic media and fan response has been to try to limit his innings and ramp him up slowly so that he could still be stretched out for potential postseason starts. I'm not actually sure why Rizzo didn't do that, but apparently from one of the various Google links they had a 50-page presentation in January about what they would do with Strasburg and so they're sticking to their guns.

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

Nobody wants to talk about Strasburg?

Not to mention that the Nats are on a bit of a freefall, too.

2SeamHeat · Aug 29, 2012

Rice Cube said:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...b905272-f136-11e1-a612-3cfc842a6d89_blog.html

This is just one in a long line of news articles, opinions and blog posts dealing with Nationals GM Mike Rizzo's planned shutdown of Stephen Strasburg. I don't recall if we've had a thread dedicated to this but I was curious as to how you would have handled Strasburg's workload in light of the fact that he's coming back from Tommy John surgery and still has a long career ahead of him.

So questions...

A. Do you think Rizzo is right in shutting down Strasburg?

B. Would you bench your best pitcher for the playoffs with his and the franchise's futures in mind?

C. What would you have done instead?

A. I think shutting down Strasburg is stupid on several levels. First, as pointed out by Chipper Jones himself, this could end up as the only year they have a real shot at getting a ring. That man should know, a he made it to the playoffs many times... but only 1 ring that came in his first full season. Secondly, I think the best way to actually get a pitcher's arm to strengthen is for him to pitch. Shutting him down will only allow his arm to settle in at this level of exertion. Thirdly, what are the fans going to think of this? Without Strasburg in the rotation, they could end up not even making the playoffs. If they do, there's a very good chance that they'll be bounced in the first round. The fans in DC have been waiting for this rather patiently... and now you are taking it away form them. While DC fans are well documented as fair-weather fans, they are also well-documented as punishing teams that pull these kind of stunts.

B. I think shutting down the team's best pitcher is always foolish, unless he's showing actual, current signs of wear and impending injury. Strasburg isn't showing any such signs.

C. I'd keep pitching Strasburg. I might go to a 6-man rotation for the rest of the regular season... or put him on a strict 5-inning, 80 pitch count... and let someone like Lannan piggy-back him. Or, I might do as the Cubs did with Harden and skip his every 3rd start... but I would have started that back in late July.

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

I agree, I think they could have gotten creative with some pitch limits, innings limits within games, phantom injuries, days off, skipped starts, anything to keep him on track and stretched out. Right now it's like they had Strasburg going full-sprint in a marathon and now he's out of gas (not really) and the Nats are stuck walking to the finish line instead of continuing on a good pace.

Huffalicious · Aug 29, 2012

I don't think shutting down Strasburg for good is a good idea. You can't predict right now if A) he would get hurt or B) the Nats would win the World Series with or without him.

They've never been to the World Series since they came into the league in '69. Why not at least make a push for it now while you have the talent?

2SeamHeat · Aug 29, 2012

Rice Cube said:
I agree, I think they could have gotten creative with some pitch limits, innings limits within games, phantom injuries, days off, skipped starts, anything to keep him on track and stretched out. Right now it's like they had Strasburg going full-sprint in a marathon and now he's out of gas (not really) and the Nats are stuck walking to the finish line instead of continuing on a good pace.

Precisely... and all it's going to do is cause his arm to get used to only pitching 26-28 times a year... not the 34-36 times we see most staff aces putting up. Granted, this is about the same length as a minor league season. However, most top minor league pitchers end up in winter ball or the AFL for 5-8 more starts before ST. Strasburg won't be going to winter ball or the AFL this year.

2SeamHeat · Aug 29, 2012

Huffalicious said:
I don't think shutting down Strasburg for good is a good idea. You can't predict right now if A) he would get hurt or B) the Nats would win the World Series with or without him.

They've never been to the World Series since they came into the league in '69. Why not at least make a push for it now while you have the talent?

Exactly! Sometime, you just have that magic. How often have we seen strong teams have that one magical season... but then for whatever reason, never get there again? It doesn't help that their team is riddled with injury-prone players (Strasburg, both Zimmermans, Morse, LaRoche, Clippard, Gorzy, etc). Any and all of those guys could go down at once and for prolonged time... and they could be the 2004-2005 Cubs... then fall apart shortly after.

2SeamHeat · Aug 29, 2012

For example... could you imagine if the Cubs had shut down Prior or Wood in 2003 for the rest of the season? Granted, that could be a good example for the other argument.. but there would still be no guarantee that the future injuries would not have happened (especially with Prior's shoulder condition). The only thing that would have guaranteed is that the Cubs wouldn't have gone to the NLCS and almost to the WS that year. I think that is the only thing shutting Strasburg down now will guarantee for the Nationals as well.

Huffalicious · Aug 29, 2012

2SeamHeat said:
Exactly! Sometime, you just have that magic. How often have we seen strong teams have that one magical season... but then for whatever reason, never get there again? It doesn't help that their team is riddled with injury-prone players (Strasburg, both Zimmermans, Morse, LaRoche, Clippard, Gorzy, etc). Any and all of those guys could go down at once and for prolonged time... and they could be the 2004-2005 Cubs... then fall apart shortly after.

It just doesn't make any sense to me why they are trying to play it safe instead of trying to capitalize on an opportunity that doesn't come their way very often. Hell, they could shut him down right now, and who's saying he doesn't blow out his arm on his first pitch of Spring Training next season? So much can happen and it's all so unpredictable, that for them to not live in the NOW and do what they can with what they have right now, is just so dumb to me.

MDB111™ · Aug 29, 2012

He is 2 seasons removed fromTommy John so if he can't hold up then what's the point and why not a reverse shutdown? If he's so fragile why not start him up until a few months into the season. you need the guy for october so why restrict him then?

not to metnion i bought my dad labor day Nats/ cubs tickets so that kid better take the mound once that series or I'll be pissed. But at least i get to see our kid play.

2SeamHeat · Aug 29, 2012

MarylandBear111 said:
He is 2 seasons removed fromTommy John so if he can't hold up then what's the point and why not a reverse shutdown? If he's so fragile why not start him up until a few months into the season. you need the guy for october so why restrict him then?

not to metnion i bought my dad labor day Nats/ cubs tickets so that kid better take the mound once that series or I'll be pissed. But at least i get to see our kid play.

I like that idea about the reverse shutdown. Let him hang out in extended ST until mid May then come out of the gate. The problem there would be DL and roster issues, though.

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

The injury issue definitely complicates things but if he's gonna get hurt, shit happens and you can't really predict it. There are preventative measures that aren't so drastic though.

Captain Obvious · Aug 29, 2012

MarylandBear111 said:
He is 2 seasons removed fromTommy John so if he can't hold up then what's the point and why not a reverse shutdown? If he's so fragile why not start him up until a few months into the season. you need the guy for october so why restrict him then?

not to metnion i bought my dad labor day Nats/ cubs tickets so that kid better take the mound once that series or I'll be pissed. But at least i get to see our kid play.

You and your dad have a kid? Good for you!

As for the OP, I think they should have been smarter about his innings. It's not like they just popped into first place. It's dumb management, IMO. I agree with the post about fake injuries, random days off, etc. They've had one of the better bullpens in the NL this year. It's not like their bullpen is going to give up 4 runs every night. Just doesn't make sense why they were so liberal with him.

Rice Cube · Aug 29, 2012

Re: Samardzija's impending shutdown:

http://espn.go.com/blog/chicago/cubs/post/_/id/13170/clock-ticking-on-samardzijas-season

It's obviously a different situation since Samardzija isn't Strasburg elite, isn't coming off an injury and doesn't have as much mileage on his arm, but it's an interesting contrast.

Mr. Cub · Aug 30, 2012

I don't really like the move. It's not like teams can make the World Series or playoffs for that matter every year in baseball. So I would like to think one would take full advantage of the best opportunities when they arise. This being that year for the Nats. I can understand being careful with him, but why not maybe limit his outings until the playoffs and or use him in the playoffs?

2SeamHeat · Aug 30, 2012

Captain Obvious said:
You and your dad have a kid? Good for you!

As for the OP, I think they should have been smarter about his innings. It's not like they just popped into first place. It's dumb management, IMO. I agree with the post about fake injuries, random days off, etc. They've had one of the better bullpens in the NL this year. It's not like their bullpen is going to give up 4 runs every night. Just doesn't make sense why they were so liberal with him.

I brought up the way the Cubs handled Harden as an example. If the Nats thought that Strasburg would so gimpy, then why not send Gorzy or Lappan out there to take Strasburg's every third start? He'd still end up with around 24 on the season, you wouldn't condition his arm to only a 2/3 season length, and he'd there for the stretch and the playoffs. Plus, it's not like either Gorzy or Lappan aren't decent to good pitchers.

Rice Cube · Sep 2, 2012

Official: Strasburg has two starts left, last one is on September 12.

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...-nationals-shutdown-last-start/1#.UEPXXNZmSGk

Rice Cube · Sep 3, 2012

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/mlb-b...als-finally-shutdown-talk-185349558--mlb.html

The "talk" has happened.

WC Jerome · Sep 4, 2012

I have a real big problem with how Nationals management is handling this whole situation. I understand that they had this plan all along to shut him at a certain point, but they no idea that the Nats would be involved in pennant race this season, let alone have one of the best records in baseball. They have to live within the now and stop worrying so much about the future. The fact of the matter is they have no idea that they will ever be in this position to win again. They need to let Strasburg have the final say.

OT: The Strasburg Shutdown

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