New Expansion Thread

Jntg4 · Sep 26, 2012

NHL to Expand to 32 Teams

Adam Proteau
An NHL agent predicts that whenever a new CBA is signed, Gary Bettman will try salvaging his rep by announcing 2 expansion teams for Canada.

Allan Walsh
What hasn't been brought up in CBA debate thus far; The NHLs' expansion plans (Seattle and Quebec) when new CBA agreed upon. (1)
The NHL's little secret- $500M expansion fee per team. That's $1B divided up between the owners, players get nothing.

Pat Hickey
@walsha Nice job if they can get it but except for Leafs, the market price is about $175 million and they've been trouble getting that.

Hickey works for Montreal Gazette, Walsh for Octagon-Hockey and is a sports agent/lawyer (Jamal Mayers follows him), and Proteau is form TheHockeyNews.com and appears to have authored some books.

Found this on MyNHLTradeRumors.com

Wondering where teams will be?
Quebec and Seattle as Walsh suggested? Markham? Hamilton? Even Halifax or Moncton? Saskatoon once wanted the Blues, even had a deal in place, so maybe them?

Jntg4 · Sep 26, 2012

CBS has it too
http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/blog/e...d-nhl-expand-after-new-cba-is-reached-why-not

cubsneedmiracle · Sep 26, 2012

We have enough of a problem selling tickets for the current teams..

Why the fuck are we adding more?

whitesoxman77 · Sep 26, 2012

Can't see Canada getting TWO teams, they simply dont have the population to support it

Jntg4 · Sep 26, 2012

whitesoxman77 said:
Can't see Canada getting TWO teams, they simply dont have the population to support it

Right because Quebec and a 2nd Toronto-area team couldn't support franchises in hockey-crazed markets. Great thinking.

Jntg4 · Sep 26, 2012

cubsneedmiracle said:
We have enough of a problem selling tickets for the current teams..

Why the fuck are we adding more?

Teams in real hockey markets sell quite well.

HawkWriter · Sep 26, 2012

I highly doubt the NHL goes to 32 teams. I could see two teams re-locating in the next 5 - 10 years, but not the league expanding.

whitesoxman77 · Sep 26, 2012

Jntg4 said:
Right because Quebec and a 2nd Toronto-area team couldn't support franchises in hockey-crazed markets. Great thinking.

Toronto and Montreal's faithful fan bases wouldn't desert the teams they have been faithful to for almost a hundred years. it's like Chicago getting a second football team, but good try, good effort. And back to my argument the only city I could see getting an expansion team is Hamilton or Halifax. Halifax having priority because Ontario already has two hockey clubs.

DaBearsrule4ever · Sep 26, 2012

Worry about ending the lockout first!

HawkWriter · Sep 26, 2012

whitesoxman77 said:
Toronto and Montreal's faithful fan bases wouldn't desert the teams they have been faithful to for almost a hundred years. it's like Chicago getting a second football team, but good try, good effort. And back to my argument the only city I could see getting an expansion team is Hamilton or Halifax. Halifax having priority because Ontario already has two hockey clubs.

Doesn't that completely counter your argument? Hamilton and Toronto are pretty close to eachother. Toss in Buffalo as well.

whitesoxman77 · Sep 26, 2012

HawkWriter said:
Doesn't that completely counter your argument? Hamilton and Toronto are pretty close to eachother. Toss in Buffalo as well.

Close to each other? Yes, but despite them being close in proximity Hamilton is still a very large metropolitan area, it's like saying the Bay Area can't have 2 baseball teams, or New Jersey can't have a hockey team because New York does. they are distinct cities, therefore another team could work there

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icehogfan08 · Sep 26, 2012

There's been some articles about the Oilers being moved

HawkWriter · Sep 26, 2012

whitesoxman77 said:
Close to each other? Yes, but despite them being close in proximity Hamilton is still a very large metropolitan area, it's like saying the Bay Area can't have 2 baseball teams, or New Jersey can't have a hockey team because New York does. they are distinct cities, therefore another team could work there

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Your argument surrounded the fact that no one is going to leave the team they rooted for over the last 100 years. So what NHL team are these people from Hamilton currently rooting for and because it is so close in proximity, going to watch live? Toronto (or possibly Buffalo but more likely TO) is the pretty obvious answer for where their allegiance lies. I'm sure many are fans of the AHL Bulldogs but I would certainly guess that many are big NHL fans of a certain team very close by.

Hamilton would be a Toronto based team (very close) and it would draw from fans who were dedicated to the Leafs or Buffalo (most likely). It isn't like these people from Hamilton don't root for an NHL team right now and all of a sudden will when one is put right in their town. They clearly root for a team and will probably switch over if Hamilton happens.

Winnipeg is an example even though they had a previous fan base. I'm sure a lot of those fans moved on and made new allegiances...but the second the Jets came back, they probably jumped back over because it just made sense. A little different situation but it shows that fans will switch if it means watching NHL games in the place they call home. Of course not all will do it but there will probably be enough. It would obviously be tougher in Hamilton, but you can't say that Hamilton will work if you claim that the Toronto area can't handle 2 teams...because that is the Toronto area. So much so that the Leafs/Sabres would have a say in Hamilton having an NHL team or not.

HawkWriter · Sep 26, 2012

icehogfan08 said:
There's been some articles about the Oilers being moved

Yea, I have to think that Katz is just trying to get his way in Edmonton with the new arena by going to Seattle. I think that he is doing his job by making sure his team is covered if the arena falls through, but I highly doubt we see Edmonton leave. A lot of people are pretty unhappy with the fact that Katz decided to make the visit to Seattle though...but he is a business person and I am sure in the end he realizes where he is going to maximize his profits (even if he claims the Oilers are losing money).

whitesoxman77 · Sep 26, 2012

I'm not saying the people of Hamilton haven't rooted for the Leafs their whole lives. But just as people of New Jersey had rooted for the Rangers up until the Devils were made a team, I think that the people of Hamilton will convert to fans of their new NHL team. It's different however when you want to stick a new team within city limits of an already established team.

Where would this new Toronto franchise play? How would they compete with the massive market that the Leafs have created not only in Toronto but in all of Canada as whole?

I mean your argument is just as flimsy as mine is because people in cities that dont have professional teams develop allegiances to teams that are in close proximity as well. So I mean if were going by that logic... why expand teams at all? I mean there must be Carolina Hurricanes all over the southern United States because there are tons of large cities near Raleigh, so we should never ever move an team within 300 miles of Raleigh, oh wait, the Capitals... well I mean... this is awkward

The point is: Canada does not have a lot of cities with the population to sustain an NHL team. Toronto could have two NHL teams but A.) where would they play? B.) how would they even begin to compete with the Leafs on a market level? Hamilton is indeed close by but they already have an arena that could house a team for a couple of seasons. A population that is already amerced in the NHL via the Leafs, and probably also a population that is thankful they no longer need to make the hour drive to Toronto to watch the Leafs suck.

So in my perspective, Canada won't get two teams, they'll get one in either Hamilton or Halifax because those are the cities large enough support a team, and unless the Canadians get real rowdy in the near future I don't see them getting two teams.

HawkWriter · Sep 26, 2012

whitesoxman77 said:
I'm not saying the people of Hamilton haven't rooted for the Leafs their whole lives. But just as people of New Jersey had rooted for the Rangers up until the Devils were made a team, I think that the people of Hamilton will convert to fans of their new NHL team. It's different however when you want to stick a new team within city limits of an already established team.

Where would this new Toronto franchise play? How would they compete with the massive market that the Leafs have created not only in Toronto but in all of Canada as whole?

I mean your argument is just as flimsy as mine is because people in cities that dont have professional teams develop allegiances to teams that are in close proximity as well. So I mean if were going by that logic... why expand teams at all? I mean there must be Carolina Hurricanes all over the southern United States because there are tons of large cities near Raleigh, so we should never ever move an team within 300 miles of Raleigh, oh wait, the Capitals... well I mean... this is awkward

The point is: Canada does not have a lot of cities with the population to sustain an NHL team. Toronto could have two NHL teams but A.) where would they play? B.) how would they even begin to compete with the Leafs on a market level? Hamilton is indeed close by but they already have an arena that could house a team for a couple of seasons. A population that is already amerced in the NHL via the Leafs, and probably also a population that is thankful they no longer need to make the hour drive to Toronto to watch the Leafs suck.

So in my perspective, Canada won't get two teams, they'll get one in either Hamilton or Halifax because those are the cities large enough support a team, and unless the Canadians get real rowdy in the near future I don't see them getting two teams.

Your debate centered around no chance there being a Toronto-area team. Hamilton is a Toronto-area team. Simple as that. I would be very surprised if he didn't mean Hamilton when he said that.

Jntg4 · Sep 26, 2012

By Toronto-area, I meant Hamilton, Markham, or Toronto. And lol if you don't think Toronto would work. Long season ticket waiting list, huge market, and hockey-crazed. By the same logic the Islanders never would have been able to work, even though they developed a good fan base before their arena became grossly outdated. And Hamilton is in the Toronto metro area, and the Devils play in NY Metro area. And Quebec has an arena being built and could support a team a lot better than Halifax. Leading candidates would have to be Toronto-area, Quebec, KC, and Seattle (in no particular area).

jcrab66 · Sep 26, 2012

what a stupid idea

DewsSox79 · Sep 26, 2012

Jntg4 said:
Right because Quebec and a 2nd Toronto-area team couldn't support franchises in hockey-crazed markets. Great thinking.

2 teams in Toronto is fucking stupid.

Quebec would be the only city that could get another team.

DewsSox79 · Sep 26, 2012

it also wont be in Hamilton or a city that small in nature. you can book that. there is enough issues with current teams and too many teams, they wont be expanding to a no name city. think....its called business.

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